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The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/we M... - 2/19/2006 8:12:41 AM   
DarkdesiresNYC


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The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/we Manage Them Together?

Consensual slaves derive a significant amount of security and reward from being directly supervised by their Masters. Because it is very positive for both Master and slave to share in intimate and complementary forms of service, this interdependence constitutes the basis of the dynamic in many Master/slave relationships. But on occasions where a slave is intended to make decisions on her own, as a representative of her Master’s wishes, a number of potential roadblocks may come into play. For example, if she is not used to making decisions on her own, she may believe herself inadequate to make substantial choice or take independent action. It follows then that she may experience tremendous fear, frustration and anxiety about making wrong judgments in situations that require her to exhibit self-control; that is, any kind of control otherwise typically exercised by her Owner. A great danger is that the slave’s fear of failure may lead to an emotional blockage that makes the learning of self-control difficult and will hinder her personal development.

The rest of the essay is available as a PDF file here:
http://www.geocities.com/eric_pride/ActivePassive-DRAFT.pdf

All your comments welcome.


_____________________________

Sir Eric and Lady Christie Pride
http://www.GeoCities.com/Eric_Pride
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RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 9:41:36 AM   
ownedgirlie


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Joined: 2/5/2006
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Master has taught me to enhance my thinking and reasoning skills, and to think as he does. Typically when i am in the position of making decisions (which is often), i already know what it is he would prefer me to do. When in doubt, i ask. When in doubt and he is not available to ask, and if the decision can not be delayed, i am conservative about it and talk to him about it afterwards. i was not always proficient at anticipating his directives, however. It took training on his part to develop this proficiency in me.

i like the question. It can lead to areas of service as well. i always chuckle a bit when i hear people say, "Oh being submissive is easy - you just lay back and let HIM do all the work!" To that i say, "bah!" A submissive is not always passive with her Master. It takes keen awareness to know just which muscles ache that day and need attention, or to know what mood calls for what type of behavior. Or to anticipate what suit he might want to wear to what client meeting, and have it ready for him, or to surprise him by finding ways to please him that he did not expect, or to conduct myself with intelligence and grace, or....you get the idea.

Ahh, the life of sitting around eating bon bons until it's merely time to open our legs. Where do i sign up for that?!

(in reply to DarkdesiresNYC)
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RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 9:43:08 AM   
DragonNphoenix


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Joined: 8/2/2005
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My Dragon has not taken all the decisions away from me. He has me act independantly from him often, then we go over the decisions that I made and discuss the outcomes of said decisions.

1st Girl Phoenix

_____________________________

**Pain is just pleasure with a twist**

(in reply to DarkdesiresNYC)
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RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 9:44:07 AM   
truesub4u


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This confuses me....

Sometimes I read some postings on here... that make me feel... people think (not everyone now mind you.. just some)... that submissive and slaves can't think on their own. Can't make any types of decisions on their own. This is bullshit... submissives and slaves.... by NORMAL standards... are adults.. thinking and making decisions left and right about every day live. Acting on behalf of Master and or themselves.

I've been reading the forums now for a few months.. and this is what I keep seeing. Submissives and slaves make choices of who they're going to serve all the time.. this requires thinking... making a decision. In everyday life... things go on that are talked about... Example.. Master informs sub/slave.... Cable guy is coming by today,this is what I want added... pure and simple. This is what sub/slave informs the installer of. Now if Master doesn't inform sub/slave of what is wanted.. then sub/slave has to either make a call to Master, or take matters in own hands. Bottom line... said sub/slave MAKES A DECISION... actually THINKS.

If house is on fire... sub/slave is going to think... decide.. and ACT... without consulting Master. I see in the way some of the poster on here talk (ON FORUMS) that their sub/slaves will not get the hell out of a burning building.. without the permission of Master!.. BULLSHIT! (Another reason why I don't believe in being chained up or caged while Master is away.. but that's just me)

I know that was a way out there example.. but this is starting to develope a pattern here on the forums when the discussion on submissive/slaves not being able to act on their own. So I'll go another route... not everone has cell phones.. beepers... etc.. to stay in contact with each other 24/7. So said submissive/slave is out grocery shopping... Corn is on sale (I know not everyone eats corn.. just work with me here.. LOL)... on sale.. 3 cans for a $1... Master's list reads.. 1 can of corn... ok time to use that brain!!!!.... 3 can for $1... or 1 can for .59 cent.... Granted follwing Master's list.. 1 can of corn is they way to think one must go.. but come on!!!!!!... Why do people think... that a submissive/slave can't think of what's a better deal here????????????

DarkdesiresNY... this is where I'm refering to your comment on taking Independent Action. Making that choice isn't as hard as your comment is trying to make it seem. Things like this happen daily. Even in total power exchange... things like this come up.

What really gets me.. is your statement....she's not use to making decisions on her own???

Unless you acquired your slave at birth... she's been making decisions for a long damn time. She is use to making decisions.. she just chooses NOT to. And to me, this is part of what ever play you 2 seems to like to play together.. that's all fine and dandy.. if it's your game.

But submissives and slaves have been thinking... making decissions.. acting on impulse, thoughts, etc.. for a long damn time...

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to DarkdesiresNYC)
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RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 11:35:42 AM   
Merritt27


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Joined: 8/10/2005
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i read the entire essay and i have to agree with truesub here. While i'm sure there are subs out there that do not wish to think for themselves, the majority of us want to...and do. Daddy not only WANTS me to think...but expects it. Granted, there has been some molding in the way of my train of thought...but the thinking on the part of the sub is still there. There is not a day that goes by that i am not asked my opinion or how i feel about something. Not sure how all Doms/Masters feel about this one...but Daddy considers it part of his duty to me to help mold me, make me a better, stonger person. If the submissives You speak of Dark Desires, experience fear or anxiety in making a decision...has the Dom not done them an injustice by making them soooo entirely dependant upon Him/Her?

(in reply to truesub4u)
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RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 11:37:18 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
The following is an excerpt from what I posted in the Gorean Lifestyle Forum:-

quote:

Let's assume for the sake of argument that some kajira is silly enough to actually want my collar.. If she meets my criteria, I expect her to be protective enough that she will be ready to protect my back and if trained correctly in appropriate techniques to double as body guard if required. In effect, she is my human guard dog. Would a kajira be given access to weaponary? Again dependent on circumstances and especially if it was apparent that she had a prior interest in using weapons (ie target or sporting shooting, fencing, martial arts etc), Hell yes I'd actively ecourage her to maintain her iterest as part of the growth and fitness of the whole person. Such a person may, for a treat, even be allowed to assist me in the cleaning of my own personal armory. Is this book? Hell no but it is an extention of the book lifestyle and to some degree cam be supported by the actions of kajirae in the defence of Port Kar.


It's all in the game and how you play it.............


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to truesub4u)
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RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 12:06:21 PM   
truesub4u


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Well IronBear,

I can only take by your added post there.. you prefer one to be able to think and act as well.
I'm sure you wouldn't put a weapon in the hands on someone who couldn't think on their own. (At least I hope not) And if your .. what did you call them... kajira.... is going to double as a Guard Dog.. you want them to be able to think.. make a decision... and act on that decision as well.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 12:23:50 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Master has taught me to enhance my thinking and reasoning skills, and to think as he does. Typically when i am in the position of making decisions (which is often), i already know what it is he would prefer me to do. When in doubt, i ask.



Perfect answer. Nuff said.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 12:42:02 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Well IronBear,

I can only take by your added post there.. you prefer one to be able to think and act as well.
I'm sure you wouldn't put a weapon in the hands on someone who couldn't think on their own. (At least I hope not) And if your .. what did you call them... kajira.... is going to double as a Guard Dog.. you want them to be able to think.. make a decision... and act on that decision as well.


Hi truesub,

You got it in one lass.

If I have a girl who may well in time become the head girl in the home or from a Gorean Perspective, the First Girl, who is also responsible for training other slaves in all the basics, has the authority to disclipline them (with a quirt) and when there are no Gorean Frees present will be addressed by other slaves as "Mistress", as well as often being my PA, I'd rather immagine whe will have good intelligence, excelent common sence and the ability to do what ever was necessary about the place without micro management. Havig said that there will be times when we are alone or training or just playing that she melts and needs to be micro managed. This is akin to a sub/slave who is like putty in the hands of her Master/Dom at home and yet is an executive or proffesional during work.... Both have a similar personality. Still what works for me will not work for many.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 12:47:30 PM   
krikket


Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline
i also agree... part of it is the fact that i'm an intelligent, fully functioning adult more than capable of making decisions. The fact was, however, than when i had a Master our thinking had been very similar to begin with, and it wasn't all that much of a stretch for me to do things as he would tell me too. i don't think we would have been a very good match if we didn't have that a foundation of simular thoughts, actions and ethics to build upon. my ability to reason through things, knowing pretty much what he'd prefer me to do, had been further enhanced by both training by him and exposure to him. Most of the stuff i dealth with then (and even now that i'm on my own again) isn't rocket science, it's "just" life. i try not to make things more complicated than necessary, although i can't say i always do..lol...




quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos


quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Master has taught me to enhance my thinking and reasoning skills, and to think as he does. Typically when i am in the position of making decisions (which is often), i already know what it is he would prefer me to do. When in doubt, i ask.



Perfect answer. Nuff said.



_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin



When your heart speaks take good notes.





(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 3:56:48 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
Wow.

This is me personally but if I had to teach someone how to think and behave without my direct orders then that's a person whom I would not consider capable of giving me the level of consent I need nor the level of service I desire.

I can train and teach in the specifics about what I prefer and require but the basic skills and the desire must be there to begin with.

As truesub4u pointed out, we should all be adults and part of that means being capable and able of acting on our own, making our own decisions, and also (for me at least) of making good and safe decisions.

For me a slave is there to make my life easier not add another thing onto my list of stuff to supervise or oversee or manage -- I do enough of that as it is with myself, my career, my students and my spouse.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to DarkdesiresNYC)
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RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 4:13:20 PM   
jamesthehumanrug


Posts: 668
Joined: 10/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkdesiresNYC

The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/we Manage Them Together?

Consensual slaves derive a significant amount of security and reward from being directly supervised by their Masters. Because it is very positive for both Master and slave to share in intimate and complementary forms of service, this interdependence constitutes the basis of the dynamic in many Master/slave relationships. But on occasions where a slave is intended to make decisions on her own, as a representative of her Master’s wishes, a number of potential roadblocks may come into play. For example, if she is not used to making decisions on her own, she may believe herself inadequate to make substantial choice or take independent action. It follows then that she may experience tremendous fear, frustration and anxiety about making wrong judgments in situations that require her to exhibit self-control; that is, any kind of control otherwise typically exercised by her Owner. A great danger is that the slave’s fear of failure may lead to an emotional blockage that makes the learning of self-control difficult and will hinder her personal development.

The rest of the essay is available as a PDF file here:
http://www.geocities.com/eric_pride/ActivePassive-DRAFT.pdf

All your comments welcome.


darkdesires goddess,
greetings
it's complimentary relationships/the more dominant; the more submissive requirements ,in a dual relationship ,however ,
i find, in personality and, attraction, that:equal amounts of dominance submissive behavior exsists in both top and bottom.
the top is submissive out of bed in their world somewhat, and comprimizes, till they can "go to bed", so to speak;likewise:so does the well matched bottom ;who ,maybe top in the world, in many superior ways ,but ,therefore has equal ,that inferior a position in bed...in other words;
they have to be equal in dominance and submissive behaviors on both ends of the scale in the same person,but,have the equal polar proportion,in dominance ,and submissive , to each other...
each is only then able,to act out their proprotionate sides, but , polar opposites,to interact,and,be satisfied,or it wont work.
equal but opposite;understand?and the matter of choice becomes a rather natural attraction and automatic-interplay....
a real god cant be satisfied ,with a slave that isnt a god
understand?

-it takes the same level of dominance, in a flamboyant personality ,to serve an arrogant huge top ,or flamboyant star....
so the "bottom"behavior
has to be the least,
to serve the most dominant ego(god ,or the like) ,
and ,yet ,
this ,also means such a- slave- sticks out ,esp.amoung ,other slaves , by comparison ,as "dominant" ,but ,also ,as the least / where such a slave appears dominant in many ways;and is accused of giving off "mixed signals;"and yet behaves as the bottom of bottoms
******************************************
something hard ,to go,into ,now....
but, ie:,elvis,
needs
an equally dominant personality, in a slave;
and ,elvis ,
exudes dominance, and, presence ,to take, over a room,yet elvis had no freedom;yeilding more than anyone else to his world,
but, so would his complimentary(equal)slave,
and the like ,and so on....
i maybe, off the mark, to what you are saying ,but ,it's quite- pert, to your quote ,in many major ways.
if you dont understand
nevermind.

< Message edited by jamesthehumanrug -- 2/19/2006 4:38:04 PM >


_____________________________

I REMAIN RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
,LOVEles,
jamesthehumanrug

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RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 6:19:38 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
Aww c'mon true, your Master doesn't tell you things like:

"Breathe in. Now breathe out. Breathe in again. Now breathe out...."


~ grin ~

What i want to know is, where the heck is that corn on sale??!

(great example btw)

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 6:59:11 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Aww c'mon true, your Master doesn't tell you things like:

"Breathe in. Now breathe out. Breathe in again. Now breathe out...."


~ grin ~

What i want to know is, where the heck is that corn on sale??!

(great example btw)



Grinzzzzzzzz.......... now there has been 1 or 2 times.. Master has told me to breath!..... LMAO... but that's only because of ......... well.. never mind.. (bigger grinzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)


Oh and the Corn... here in NC... Food Lion... Green Giant... LOL

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 7:35:48 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Aww c'mon true, your Master doesn't tell you things like:

"Breathe in. Now breathe out. Breathe in again. Now breathe out...."


~ grin ~

What i want to know is, where the heck is that corn on sale??!

(great example btw)



Grinzzzzzzzz.......... now there has been 1 or 2 times.. Master has told me to breath!..... LMAO... but that's only because of ......... well.. never mind.. (bigger grinzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)


Oh and the Corn... here in NC... Food Lion... Green Giant... LOL


~ laughing ~

Yeah come to think of it...i've been told to breathe on occasion, too... ~ grin ~

Damn. Now i'm hungry. LOL.

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 7:46:46 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
I should add that even though I require a kajira to be able to think and act independently (That way she may be allowed to go shopping for me and help Neets with the weekly shop, take messages for me and make appointements as well as training others if then need arises, she is answerable for her every action and decision to me. Trust is a two way thing. I want, no I need her to trust me as her Master that I will protect and take care of her. This is normal as y'all will agree (I immagine), but the flip side is I need to trust her to make the best decisions she is able with the information she has. I also need to trust her to relay information accurately as often I have needed to make snap decisions on information just received. As long as she gives it her best shot we are cool.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 2/19/2006 7:47:25 PM >


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The Active and Passive Roles of a slave: How do We/... - 2/19/2006 9:54:16 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkdesiresNYC
Consensual slaves derive a significant amount of security and reward from being directly supervised by their Masters.

Right off the bat you are overgeneralizing. Lots of slaves adore NOT having to be directly supervised and being given delegatory authority. Being completely trusted by their owner to be told "go do this" and then needing absolutely no follow-up or check-ins, just because the master can know it will happen and if there are problems, the slave will communicate them.

quote:

A great danger is that the slave’s fear of failure may lead to an emotional blockage that makes the learning of self-control difficult and will hinder her personal development.

Doms have exactly the same problems with this.

It's best to become aware of them, open about them, and work on them so thate veryone can become useful to everyone in the ways that fit them best. No one wants a frozen lump in the long term.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to DarkdesiresNYC)
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