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RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/29/2009 11:32:18 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		~FR~ and no, I haven't read all the contents of this thread.

I am failing to see the line between good character and a sense of honor. I see a sense of honor as part and parcel of good character when exercised appropriately. Standing by my beliefs and values for MYSELF is a great thing. Setting them upon someone else is not. My job in seeking a partner is to find someone with whom I share most, if not all, the same core values and beliefs. Our actually belief SYSTEMS may vary (or not), but if we are arriving at holding the same things as precious, then it really matters little how we each got there insomuch as being partners goes.

I happily share what I value and believe with those who either ask or with whom the matter comes up in some other form. If it so happens that they have merit with the other person who may have previously not shared in them, that's great. If not, it may be an area of debate or demonstration, but I am not willing to coerce someone into accepting them. If I do, then they really have not taken on those beliefs and values for themselves. They still believe as the did before, but simply practice what will not bring about negative consequences from me. That is wholly unsatisfying to me. I would much rather put in the hard work to develop the kind of relationship with someone that may convince them of my ways, but not judge them or force anything upon them. I prefer my matters of honor to be taken up willingly, kind of like how I want to have or give submission. It is garbage without that conscious act of will.

Being convinced to move a bit on certain matters also does not denote a lack of honor. What it denotes is development as a person and an acknowledgement of one's own humanity. What does show a lack of honor is not taking a stand, changing a position with little or no provocation, and tossing those things supposedly so important to the person because it is more convenient or opens a particularly appealing opportunity. Those kinds of behaviors sicken me and I would have no part of a person who behaved in such a way. I fully expect it to be difficult to move someone on important issues. If it isn't, then any "victory" I gain is rather hollow anyway. Grapple with me, debate, defend. Bend me to your way. Resist when I attempt to bend you to mine. In the end, the conclusion we both reach in interacting with each other is a richer and firmer position than either of us had prior. Honor and growth go hand in hand. How am I honoring myself if I refuse to ever grow and resist the changes that growth would bring?

lovingpet


(in reply to olena)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/30/2009 7:20:46 AM   
BarnacleBill


Posts: 51
Joined: 6/12/2009
Status: offline 		We should always try to help people in need that is just being human! But we need to be careful as well that we dont lose our basic honesty or honor in doing so.

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/30/2009 7:54:39 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

Got to thinking lately in regards to how we kinksters are adamant about being in a relationship, whether it's with a dominant, submissive or a switch and we place a high priority on that person's character. What strikes me as strange is I've rarely read anyone place any emphasis on the other person's honor.

Going by the dictionary definition of honor which is: honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions. It seems to me that a person would want to examine the honor of a potential partner or in a partner if that person is in a relationship. What I'd like to ask is:
On a list of important characteristics of a person, where does that person's sense of honor sit?  If having a high personal sense of honor and integrity, how far are you willing to defend that?
We all are guided by own own sense of personal ethics, how much of your own self respect and the respect earned from your peers are you willing to risk for the sake of defending your own sense of honor, even if that sense of honor is over inflated?


quote:

Got to thinking lately in regards to how we kinksters are adamant about being in a relationship, whether it's with a dominant, submissive or a switch and we place a high priority on that person's character. What strikes me as strange is I've rarely read anyone place any emphasis on the other person's honor.

Going by the dictionary definition of honor which is: honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions. It seems to me that a person would want to examine the honor of a potential partner or in a partner if that person is in a relationship. What I'd like to ask is:
On a list of important characteristics of a person, where does that person's sense of honor sit? If having a high personal sense of honor and integrity, how far are you willing to defend that?
We all are guided by own own sense of personal ethics, how much of your own self respect and the respect earned from your peers are you willing to risk for the sake of defending your own sense of honor, even if that sense of honor is over inflated?


bear,

A timely post indeed, as the path gets heavily strewen with the cadavers of broken relationships. For myself those characteristics are very important and equally so for both sides of the slash.

CP

(in reply to beargonewild)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/30/2009 8:05:09 AM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Bless you.  I completely agree.  I would add one thing though.
I am slightly confused by the idea that someone would deliberately choose someone they believed to be dishonest, bad, unkind, ect.  I mean.. do people seek that out?  I know they often find themselves with someone like that, but I have to think it was not a deliberate choice.  The most irritating examples of hurt, pain, and betrayal I have seen came from people who stressed honor and integrity as part of their lifestyle
In my observation there are people who talk "honor"  and people who are just decent kind people who have no need to promote one aspect of themselves over another.   Give me a decent man I can relate to.  One who is much like myself. 
Kyst




Well stated !!


_____________________________

Some soften by the forced reflection that comes from loss; others harden. Which are you?




(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/30/2009 9:00:31 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		~ General Reply ~

To clear up a bit of confusion which I am perceiving,  I was trying to be specific to an individual's sense of honor/integrity/ethics and not the overly exaggerated portrayal we see in the realm of television or movies....I am referring to the ethics, for lack of a better term at this time, which a person holds themselves to. To some extent we (general) are guided by a sense of what we believe is honorable, in the sense of we will defend to varying degrees how to conduct ourselves when our personal beliefs are challenged, what we believe is morally right or wrong, etc.
In many ways we all have a code of ethics that we personally follow whether it's with dealing with a S/O or we try to be a truthful and honest person all around or we try to do what we can to change a social injustice. Maybe this topic is one which is too specific and there is no overall answer because it's too dependent upon an individual's perception? Granted I also could be confusing personal integrity/ethics with a personal sense of honor?


_____________________________

Do Not Rile da Chosen Bear

Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

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(in reply to daintydimples)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/30/2009 9:05:23 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		`fr`

In a nutshell, I try not to let my mouth write checks my ass can't cash. Not perfect at it, but pretty damn good and if I fuck up, I own up. That's about the best I can do, being human and all. :)

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to beargonewild)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/30/2009 9:16:38 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

In a nutshell, I try not to let my mouth write checks my ass can't cash.

I just avoid writing checks that my ass would have to cash.

Then again, YKINMK.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/30/2009 9:23:07 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I don't rank honor above integrity above honesty etc. In fact, I don't separate any of them. All I looked for is that we have very similar moral and ethical codes. And that winds up encompassing all of them.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to olena)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/30/2009 11:42:40 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Way back when I was young I would occasionally walk on the dark side.  I met more than a few people who had no qualms about getting their children to help them *acquire* bikes, or walk out of stores wearing items that were not purchased.  As I got older I saw several of these same things going on at the local walmart.  Honor?  The kids were honoring their parents dictates.  The fact that the parent was dishonest meant nothing to the child, they were merely obeying the code of ethics they were taught.  And for those parents who had to know this was wrong, I am sure they justified it in their heads. 
I tend to dismiss people who spout off on honor and integrity.  Give me someone with similar values as myself, who I would be proud to introduce to my family and friends, and not worry about someone who felt they had to defend their honor.
Live well.  Do right.  Treat people as you wish to be treated.  
That to me is living an honorable life.  It requires no defense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild
Maybe this topic is one which is too specific and there is no overall answer because it's too dependent upon an individual's perception? Granted I also could be confusing personal integrity/ethics with a personal sense of honor?


(in reply to beargonewild)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/30/2009 6:01:58 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vasha
death before dishonor!
no im not kidding

So, you plan to do a lot of dishonorable things after you die?

(in reply to vasha)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/30/2009 6:58:40 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild
On a list of important characteristics of a person, where does that person's sense of honor sit? If having a high personal sense of honor and integrity, how far are you willing to defend that?

I suppose I look for someone with a similar sense of honor to mine. What else can really work? If someone was way more sensitive to honor than me, I'd see them as a stuck up prig. If they were way less, I'd see them as dishonorable. Isn't this just another variable in that compatibility thing?

Now, that being said, any attack against Carol is the absolute fastest way to get a very very serious rise out of me. I honestly don't care who did what to whom. The fact that Carol is feeling threatened/vulnerable/attacked would pretty much be all I needed to do whatever was needed in order to stop it. I might later sort it out with Carol if I felt that her processing of the whole situation was a bit ... overblown. But in the moment, there'd only be one focus for me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild
We all are guided by own own sense of personal ethics, how much of your own self respect and the respect earned from your peers are you willing to risk for the sake of defending your own sense of honor, even if that sense of honor is over inflated?

I'm confused. I don't understand how my own sense of honor could get in the way of my own ethics. I've never been in a situation where those two things were not aligned. Right along with that goes my self respect. Insofar as my peers my attitude would be that if lost someone's respect because I was being honorable, then that person was nobody who's opinion mattered to me. We are clearly incompatible on some very fundamental levels.

However, I don't defend my honor in the sense of "Sally said something bad about me and I need to set the record straight to defend my honor." I seldom care what someone may have said. I seldom care what someone else may have interpreted about my actions. The act of defending my honor is the same as "being honorable" to me. Maybe put differently, the only defense my honor needs is my own belief that I am honorable.... well... and Carol's belief.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to beargonewild)
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RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/30/2009 7:03:51 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

The act of defending my honor is the same as "being honorable" to me.




I would say it this way for myself. In continuing to act consistently based upon my own personal sense of honor, I am defending said honor. Actions speaking louder than words and all that.

lovingpet

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/30/2009 7:25:11 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I'm confused. I don't understand how my own sense of honor could get in the way of my own ethics. I've never been in a situation where those two things were not aligned. Right along with that goes my self respect. Insofar as my peers my attitude would be that if lost someone's respect because I was being honorable, then that person was nobody who's opinion mattered to me. We are clearly incompatible on some very fundamental levels.



Hmmm.....looks like I have used the inappropriate terms which failed to get what I was asking about....sorry.


_____________________________

Do Not Rile da Chosen Bear

Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

Resident MANWHORE ~1000 Bear pts~

10 NZ points
Whips~n~Cuffs

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/30/2009 7:58:09 PM   
Roselaure


Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline 		I think it's all tied up together (of course being tied up is something I like).  Honor, character, integrity, ethics all make up the core values of an individual and are inseparable from each other.  Yes it's important, and in a relationship the most important thing is the sense of shared values.   

_____________________________

Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to beargonewild)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: A Matter of Honor - 7/31/2009 12:16:34 AM   
vasha


Posts: 99
Joined: 2/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TurboJugend

quote:

ORIGINAL: vasha

death before dishonor!
no im not kidding.

~vasha

seriously;
where does honour start. When is one dishonoured?


repentance & reparation (as appropriate)

quote:

So, you plan to do a lot of dishonorable things after you die?


no. ideally when my body dies, there is nothing left whatsoever. the peace of utter nonexistence is my hope.


< Message edited by vasha -- 7/31/2009 12:20:20 AM >

(in reply to TurboJugend)
Profile   Post #: 55
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