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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/3/2009 1:50:55 AM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
Sigh. You lack vision my friend.


What I ''lack" is an *inability* to discern fiction from reality, something many who like to quote 1984 seem to have in abundance.


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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/3/2009 5:41:47 AM   
nudedude


Posts: 13
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline 		What I ''lack" is an *inability* to discern fiction from reality, something many who like to quote 1984 seem to have in abundance.

yes, hes right. the REAL ID act, verichip rfid tracking, fema camps,the georgia guidestones ,codex alimentarius, operation garden plot. these are all things that i made up one day just for fun. 

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/3/2009 11:08:30 AM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nudedude
yes, hes right. the REAL ID act, verichip rfid tracking, fema camps,the georgia guidestones ,codex alimentarius, operation garden plot. these are all things that i made up one day just for fun. 


No one ever said you made them up.

However, not one of those things you mentioned derails freedom in anyway. It's just that you and others love to use 1984 as some kind of 'freedom bible' and anything in the REAL world that remotely resembles anything in that book, you choose hate and fear.

Don't hate and fear. It makes life very very sad for you.


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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/3/2009 2:16:38 PM   
nudedude


Posts: 13
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline 		However, not one of those things you mentioned derails freedom in anyway. It's just that you and others love to use 1984 as some kind of 'freedom bible' and anything in the REAL world that remotely resembles anything in that book, you choose hate and fear.

Don't hate and fear. It makes life very very sad for you.


im sorry but i never read the book. i went to school in the late 80s for electronics and noticed how it turned from helping people to tracking people.watching this made me sick. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azoWDlZGImU

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/3/2009 4:50:51 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nudedude
im sorry but i never read the book. i went to school in the late 80s for electronics and noticed how it turned from helping people to tracking people.watching this made me sick. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azoWDlZGImU


Once again, 'tracking' does nothing to derail your freedom. No one says you can't go to place A, B or C, you're just not doing to 'un-noticed.'

I've got news for you, most major businesses from convenience stores to the place you probably work (or go to school) has cameras in them. If you leave your home, you're likely on some camera at some point for the majority of your day. A few more on light poles along the street really won't matter that much.

Hell....our government has satellites that can read a piece of paper over your shoulder and you're worried about a camera on the street? A bit late for that, ain't it?


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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/4/2009 4:29:44 AM   
nudedude


Posts: 13
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline 		Once again, 'tracking' does nothing to derail your freedom. No one says you can't go to place A, B or C, you're just not doing to 'un-noticed.'

I've got news for you, most major businesses from convenience stores to the place you probably work (or go to school) has cameras in them. If you leave your home, you're likely on some camera at some point for the majority of your day. A few more on light poles along the street really won't matter that much.

Hell....our government has satellites that can read a piece of paper over your shoulder and you're worried about a camera on the street? A bit late for that, ain't it?


its not the cameras im worried about its the software ,the people and the motive behind them.im starting to think that you didnt watch any of the videos i posted.look up verichip and you will see the cameras were just the begining. for the past 2 years they have been placing some devices below the roads in our hiways around pittsburgh on the entrance and exits and replacing all the guardrails with heavyer versions.

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/4/2009 4:39:55 AM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nudedude
its not the cameras im worried about its the software ,the people and the motive behind them.im starting to think that you didnt watch any of the videos i posted.look up verichip and you will see the cameras were just the begining. for the past 2 years they have been placing some devices below the roads in our hiways around pittsburgh on the entrance and exits and replacing all the guardrails with heavyer versions.


And those derail our freedoms how? Do they pop up a forcefield that prevents you from going where you want? Do they disable your car? No. They're for tracking, that's all. Yes, theoretically some nefarious individual could 'maybe' use that information for bad things. But does that mean it 'will' be used for that? No.


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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/4/2009 5:01:54 AM   
Arpig


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quote:

watching this made me sick. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azoWDlZGImU
Why??? It was pretty fuckin cool if you ask me.

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/4/2009 5:13:12 AM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

watching this made me sick. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azoWDlZGImU
Why??? It was pretty fuckin cool if you ask me.


Considering his side of the argument, I find it interesting that he's totally ignored the Terminator-esque humanoid robot and is 'sickened' by a robot dog.


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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/4/2009 8:59:21 AM   
nudedude


Posts: 13
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline 		Considering his side of the argument, I find it interesting that he's totally ignored the Terminator-esque humanoid robot and is 'sickened' by a robot dog.

who needs dog the bounty hunter when you have bigdog the bounty hunter. unlike dog the bounty hunter who is armed with pepperspay. bigdogs might carry an m-60. they have another fun robot called crusher.they show it crushing cars (without people
in them for now).and yes the sensors in the road can disable new cars. thats why we must push people with older cars to trade in for new chip equiped ones. $4500.00 makes it easy too. when you see the big picture you will get the idea.they are so nice to give away fee tracphones to the poor.also the new cameras will have gps tracking everytime we take a picture.because were too dumb to remember.everything is going to be great!

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/4/2009 9:46:24 AM   
cadenas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
No thanks. If you want to live in that kind of police state, go right ahead - I'm sure they'll let you move into an empty cell in the nearest prison. Me, I prefer to keep my freedom.

And how, praytell would the presence of cameras take your freedom?


You may want to think about why the Founding Fathers came up with the Fourth and Eighth Amendments. According to your rationale, those two really aren't necessary, either?

Cameras everywhere would effectively gut the Constitution. The Supreme Court has already ruled in various contexts that anonymity and privacy are guaranteed by the Constitution. Roe v Wade is one example, more relevant here is McIntyre. If cameras can track your whereabouts, there effectively no longer is a free speech right.


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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/4/2009 1:39:31 PM   
Loki45


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Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
You may want to think about why the Founding Fathers came up with the Fourth and Eighth Amendments. According to your rationale, those two really aren't necessary, either?

Cameras everywhere would effectively gut the Constitution.


Re-stating your "opinion" that the cameras would 'gut the constitution' doesn't explain why. You're already on dozens of cameras a day. Adding a few more to street lights won't change a thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
The Supreme Court has already ruled in various contexts that anonymity and privacy are guaranteed by the Constitution. Roe v Wade is one example, more relevant here is McIntyre.


And um.....isn't Roe v Wade about abortion? What does that have to do with cameras?

quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
If cameras can track your whereabouts, there effectively no longer is a free speech right.


How exactly can cameras doing nothing but WATCHING stop the right to free speech?


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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/4/2009 1:41:07 PM   
Loki45


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Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nudedude
and yes the sensors in the road can disable new cars. thats why we must push people with older cars to trade in for new chip equiped ones. $4500.00 makes it easy too. when you see the big picture you will get the idea.they are so nice to give away fee tracphones to the poor.also the new cameras will have gps tracking everytime we take a picture.because were too dumb to remember.everything is going to be great!


You're living in fantasy land. If those sensors could disable cars, we would have rampant 'wrong-way' drunkdriver crashes so often as we are now. That super-cool emp technology used to stop cars only exists in 2 Fast 2 Furious. Trust me, I've checked (for my own reasons of course) it's totally fake.


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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/4/2009 1:43:49 PM   
Slavehandsome


Posts: 382
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Status: offline 		http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/08/britain-to-put-cctv-cameras-inside-private-homes/

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/4/2009 1:55:21 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/08/britain-to-put-cctv-cameras-inside-private-homes/


That'd be about where the line would be for me. I'm fine with cameras in other places. But the cameras in my home would be mine, not the government's.


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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/4/2009 3:20:34 PM   
nudedude


Posts: 13
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline 		That'd be about where the line would be for me. I'm fine with cameras in other places. But the cameras in my home would be mine, not the government's.

we can already see in your home and everywhere you travel. with your devices you bought and payed for.your cellphone cameras and mics can be turned on and off at our request.among other devices that you already own. why do you think all the new phones face with thier mics out?even onstar has come foward saying their listining in your car.and yes all your car can be put
to sleep buy powerfull magnets built into the road.(e m p).
http://newssophisticate.blogspot.com/2007/10/can-banks-disable-your-car-in-middle.html
http://current.com/items/89422613_disable-your-passports-rfid-chip.htm


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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/4/2009 4:30:45 PM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
You may want to think about why the Founding Fathers came up with the Fourth and Eighth Amendments. According to your rationale, those two really aren't necessary, either?

Cameras everywhere would effectively gut the Constitution.


Re-stating your "opinion" that the cameras would 'gut the constitution' doesn't explain why. You're already on dozens of cameras a day. Adding a few more to street lights won't change a thing.


You are, of course, ignoring the fact that I already gave the specific reasons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
The Supreme Court has already ruled in various contexts that anonymity and privacy are guaranteed by the Constitution. Roe v Wade is one example, more relevant here is McIntyre.


And um.....isn't Roe v Wade about abortion? What does that have to do with cameras?


More importantly, it is about the right to privacy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
If cameras can track your whereabouts, there effectively no longer is a free speech right.


How exactly can cameras doing nothing but WATCHING stop the right to free speech?



The Supreme Court has already decided that in the McIntyre case. The right to free speech fundamentally requires the right to remain anonymous.


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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/4/2009 4:50:44 PM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: nudedude
and yes the sensors in the road can disable new cars. thats why we must push people with older cars to trade in for new chip equiped ones. $4500.00 makes it easy too. when you see the big picture you will get the idea.they are so nice to give away fee tracphones to the poor.also the new cameras will have gps tracking everytime we take a picture.because were too dumb to remember.everything is going to be great!


You're living in fantasy land. If those sensors could disable cars, we would have rampant 'wrong-way' drunkdriver crashes so often as we are now. That super-cool emp technology used to stop cars only exists in 2 Fast 2 Furious. Trust me, I've checked (for my own reasons of course) it's totally fake.



You are right, of course - right now that is indeed fiction. But the plans for such a system actually are reality even outside the tin-foil hat community. Read up on OBD III (google for it). With Onstar and Lojack, many parts of the puzzle are already in place. There are also quite concrete plans to switch from a gasoline-based taxation to a mileage-based taxation that would rely on OBD III. Schwarzenegger proposed such a system about a year or two ago for California.

Obviously, that is controversial even within the car industry or Washington for privacy and political reasons, so it may or may not actually happen.

Basically, it is the new version of the engine management system. OBD II is the system that turns on your check-engine light (OBD stands for On Board Diagnostics). It is mandated by federal law for emission control purposes. In OBD III, the plan is to tie that to an Onstar-like system that constantly reports emissions data and positioning data to a service center to allow pulling gross polluters off the road as soon as the check engine light comes on. The same positioning data would also be used to calculate where you have been, for road-tax purposes.


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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/4/2009 6:17:18 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
You are, of course, ignoring the fact that I already gave the specific reasons.


That's because you're quoting fiction and stating opinions. You've shown nothing to illustrate how cameras take away your freedoms.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
More importantly, it is about the right to privacy.


Actually, it's not. They 'justified' their decision by citing that amendment, but that's sooo not what it was about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
The Supreme Court has already decided that in the McIntyre case. The right to free speech fundamentally requires the right to remain anonymous.


Cowardice requires the right to remain anonymous. Free speech does not. And as I look at tbe bill of rights, I don't see "Right to remain anonymous" anywhere in there.


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'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 8/5/2009 3:23:23 AM   
cadenas


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Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
More importantly, it is about the right to privacy.

Actually, it's not. They 'justified' their decision by citing that amendment, but that's sooo not what it was about.


Thank you for confirming my point: the Ninth Amendment dues guarantee privacy - and SCOTUS confirmed that fact by, as you correctly state, citing it in Roe (and in Grisworld). Actually, they didn't just "cite" it but rather actually heavily relied on it. Without the right to privacy, Roe and Grisworld would both collapse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
The Supreme Court has already decided that in the McIntyre case. The right to free speech fundamentally requires the right to remain anonymous.

Cowardice requires the right to remain anonymous. Free speech does not. And as I look at tbe bill of rights, I don't see "Right to remain anonymous" anywhere in there.


There is nothing in the First Amendment that says "you have to be a superhero in order to have free speech". In the contrary, free speech means, speech without retribution even against those you are afraid of.

And I find it interesting that your interpretation of the Constitution should matter more than the Supreme Court's. They already decided this matter (in McIntyre).


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Profile   Post #: 120
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