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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 1:06:00 AM   
Arpig


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quote:

Big brother's been watching all of us for a long time.
maybe so, but we shouldn't make it any easier for him.

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 2:13:19 AM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
maybe so, but we shouldn't make it any easier for him.


Easy or hard, he's gonna do it. At least if we have cameras everywhere, the innocent can be a bit safer.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 5:03:27 AM   
Louve00


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Consequences teach


I wish I could take credit for this idea; however is was the thought of one of the guests over at the house for WyldHrt's birthday party. He had an interesting suggestion along these lines that maybe would address both the issues of consequence, cost, and the overcrowded prisons.

He said that all convicted criminals be sentences for the exact same term - 2 weeks. During there stay at the prison, each day there would be a lottery with all the prisoner's names. If you name comes up - you are executed. Do you think there would be much recidivism?

Now granted, capitol punishment seems a bit excessive for someone doing a B&E; but considering all the people who wanted to see Bernie Maddoff killed for his crime this may be the appropriate 'final solution'.

Maybe there could be a tiered system; same sentence, but for the two week period the lottery 'winner' would have a hand cut off in the 'thieves prison'. Rapists - the 'winner' gets castrated. A flogging, in the style of Mel Gibson's S&M snuff film, Passion of the Christ, for DUI convictions. The PC correct will appreciate the Bible / Koran influence. Make it through the two weeks and go free.

As a sadist - I can really appreciate the 'Mind Fuck' value such a system would provide.

Combine the concept with a fixed 30 day time frame from arrest to trial - regardless of the crime or the high priced legal team to be assembled and you'll clear up the current backlog, and reduce the costs for the entire process, very quickly.

Obviously - we have to start thinking outside the box.


Wow.  That thought of your guest made me think of a movie I saw in school once, called the Lottery.  I'm not sure the purpose of the movie, or even why the teacher made us watch it, but every week, (or every month), I forget, there was a town that held a lottery.  The winner was stoned to death.

LOL...ok...back to your originally scheduled show, now.  :)

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 2:43:43 PM   
calamitysandra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

Loki, which measures do you propose, to make sure only the really guilty are executed? Which changes to the system would it take in your opinion?


The easiest one of all, I'm afraid, is also the one no one seems to want to take. Cameras on every corner. Look at cities where they have such widespread surveilance in place. Any crime, no matter how minor, is on a screen somewhere. They can even catch vandals and other random 'minor' crimes. But try and put cameras up here....people go ape shit.

If you're on camera committing the crime, it would be kinda hard to refute in court. That would solve a good portion of the problems of innocent people being convicted.



And what about all the crimes that are not committed in public space?

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 3:11:44 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra
And what about all the crimes that are not committed in public space?


Time of death and exterior video surveilance can be used together to make solid cases. If there's footage of only one guy going into your private space, then footage of only one coming out....and time of death is between those times....logic can suggest who the murderer is.




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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 3:44:02 PM   
nudedude


Posts: 13
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline 		prison is not about punishment. but i think the guy that killed Polly Klass should be set on fire and put out at least once a month. prison is about seperating people to keep the g.p. safe from psycopathes who dont learn right from wrong. i know i felt much safer with paris hilton and martha stewart behind bars.70 percent of folks in there dont belong there.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

< Message edited by nudedude -- 7/31/2009 3:53:28 PM >

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 4:51:05 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		The US has way to many laws that result in jail time. Most of the prisoners are there for drugs. Well, obviously it's been 20 Plus years fighting a complete failure of a war, and most of those in there for non-violent drug use, should be released.

I mean Irish brings up the most heinous cases, and I doubt anyone is arguing sympathy for men holding guns to peoples heads. However, most prisoners are in there for dealing or doing drugs, that's it.

Hell, I've had a pound of pot before, about 12 years ago, I sold it out, and never sold any drugs again, it racked my nerves to much. However, If I had been caught I'd be rotting in jail for selling pot. Whatever. Oh, I've done Acid before during the same little drug experimentation stint, and it just happens at least then they classify that like Cocaine! So, there is another time I could have been rotting in jail. Did shrooms twice, two, again during same period.

Instead, I didn't get caught (85 percent of people have smoked pot by the way), I don't even smoke pot ever at all, nor do any drugs. I don't drink alcohol , however, if I had a bit of bad luck, on a couple occasions I'd be rotting in jail. LOL. Me the guy with no criminal history other than a couple traffic tickets.

My opinion prisons should be for "VIOLENT CRIMES", and repeat offenses involving theft, as that is harm to another person. Me trying acid, willingly, and running around staring at the stars, should not, nor selling pot, whether that be a ton or an ounce to willing buyers, even be considered a crime.

The simple answer to why we have so many prisoners is because we are a nation of control freaks. As if you can threaten people into not experimenting, or locking them in cage will help. Lock the molester, rapist, murderer, Serial Thief, in jail, they actually did something to another person. Locking a person caught with drugs, in jail that got pulled over on a random traffic stop is idiotic.

If in slaveboys example the woman had written bad checks before that time, yeah, she probably should be in jail, because that is repeated theft, if it was a first offence, it's stupid to lock someone away.

My step mother got locked in jail for about a year because on a routine traffic stop they searched her car and the punk kid she was giving a ride to hid some meth under the seat, well, her car=her crime, off to jail with you. Even with no criminal history, and no violence. It's stupid.

Anyway, it's stupid control freak laws that keep the prisons stocked full, not that we are the most violent people genetically or whatever those that think having so many people in jail is just peachy.

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 5:38:18 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
The US has way to many laws that result in jail time. Most of the prisoners are there for drugs. Well, obviously it's been 20 Plus years fighting a complete failure of a war, and most of those in there for non-violent drug use, should be released.


Yeah, I'm sure the drug laws, or lack thereof, were all well and good until crackheads starting killing people over just enough money for their next 'fix.'

As the drug-related crimes got more common, they needed to crack down on the drugs themselves. I'd theorize that the majority of people don't give a rat's ass who shoots what into their own veins. But when that poison is sold to kids, or when someone 'jonesing' for their next hit robs and kills someone, then it becomes a problem.

And when do you address the problem? After the junkie murders someone? Too late then, person's already dead. So they try and control it as much as possible so that the innocent don't get murdered. If anyone has a better idea to stop junkies from getting stoned and killing someone because they thought they were under attack/being funny/whatever I'd love to hear them.


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'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 6:50:29 PM   
blacksword404


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra
And what about all the crimes that are not committed in public space?


Time of death and exterior video surveilance can be used together to make solid cases. If there's footage of only one guy going into your private space, then footage of only one coming out....and time of death is between those times....logic can suggest who the murderer is.





And that only proves exactly what you said. What time a person appears to enter and leave. Not what was done while in there, who was doing what or if others are still there or left by some unknown exit.

Say you loki go into a store to buy some gum.   The camera across the street show you entering at 18:00 and leaving at 18:14. The owner of the store is found dead at 18:52. The video shows you being the last person to leave other than the person who found him. The video would lead us to believe that you killed him. There is no evidence that shows you didn't. The video will convict you because there does not seem to be any other logical conclusion.

But unknown to everyone else other than the dead store keeper, there is a secret entrance into the store. Only 4 or 5 people know it exist and 4 of them are dead. A man entered by this exit while you were in the store and just after you left killed the owner.

You went into the store looked around for a about 2 minutes and picked up some gum and a soda and went up to the counter. The store owner was busy trying to fix a problem with the register. You and him talk and kick the bobo for a while til he gets the register working. You now remember you are supposed to be somewhere so you say by to the owner and rush off to your appointment. It is now 18:14.

The coroner determines the store owner likely died at around 18:10-18:30. The video shows you were the only person who could have been in the store at the time. You were shown on the video leaving the store looking concerned, uncomposed and in a hurry. And the murder weapon was a can of heavily dented chicken noodle soup which was used to bash his head in.

Conclusion of the jury? Guilty. Fry him. The video clearly shows his guilt.

_____________________________

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 6:58:26 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
And that only proves exactly what you said. What time a person appears to enter and leave. Not what was done while in there, who was doing what or if others are still there or left by some unknown exit.

Say you loki go into a store to buy some gum.   The camera across the street show you entering at 18:00 and leaving at 18:14. The owner of the store is found dead at 18:52. The video shows you being the last person to leave other than the person who found him. The video would lead us to believe that you killed him. There is no evidence that shows you didn't. The video will convict you because there does not seem to be any other logical conclusion.


"Secret passagways" went out a long, long time ago. Most modern buildings don't have anything of the sort. Not to mention that "unknown exits" currently exist because of our incredibly limited surveilance capabilities. In "my" idea....there are as many cameras as you see in Demolition Man or any current "sci-fi-based" crime show, which would help to eliminate "secret entrances" if any happened to still exist.

Furthermore, you're forgetting things like DNA, blood spatter, fingerprints, etc. If I am seen exiting wearing the same thing I had on when I entered, and no evidence is found on me or my clothing, then I'd be cleared. Not to mention that most convenience stores also have cameras inside, so your scenario fails before it gets started.

The question asked of me was of "private spaces." A convenience store is not a private space. The only "private spaces" I am aware of are our own homes. And I don't know about you, but I can assure you that when I move into my new home.....you will not be able to set foot on my property without your face being on at least two HD monitors. And if you're inside, be advised...there WILL be cameras. Maybe not in the bathrooms, but damn near anywhere else I see fit.

< Message edited by Loki45 -- 7/31/2009 6:59:40 PM >

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 7:09:50 PM   
blacksword404


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
And that only proves exactly what you said. What time a person appears to enter and leave. Not what was done while in there, who was doing what or if others are still there or left by some unknown exit.

Say you loki go into a store to buy some gum.   The camera across the street show you entering at 18:00 and leaving at 18:14. The owner of the store is found dead at 18:52. The video shows you being the last person to leave other than the person who found him. The video would lead us to believe that you killed him. There is no evidence that shows you didn't. The video will convict you because there does not seem to be any other logical conclusion.


"Secret passagways" went out a long, long time ago. Most modern buildings don't have anything of the sort. Not to mention that "unknown exits" currently exist because of our incredibly limited surveilance capabilities. In "my" idea....there are as many cameras as you see in Demolition Man or any current "sci-fi-based" crime show, which would help to eliminate "secret entrances" if any happened to still exist.
And we all know that no technology can be subverted. Remember that light can be bent.

Furthermore, you're forgetting things like DNA, blood spatter, fingerprints, etc. If I am seen exiting wearing the same thing I had on when I entered, and no evidence is found on me or my clothing, then I'd be cleared. Not to mention that most convenience stores also have cameras inside, so your scenario fails before it gets started. And there is no way that you could have covered yourself up so that your clothing did not receive any splatter.

The question asked of me was of "private spaces." A convenience store is not a private space. The only "private spaces" I am aware of are our own homes. And I don't know about you, but I can assure you that when I move into my new home.....you will not be able to set foot on my property without your face being on at least two HD monitors. And if you're inside, be advised...there WILL be cameras. Maybe not in the bathrooms, but damn near anywhere else I see fit. And light cannot be bent?


_____________________________

Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

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Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 7:27:38 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
And we all know that no technology can be subverted. Remember that light can be bent.


Light-bending technology is so new and so faulty, there's very little chance of it being put to use in that fashion, especially by some punk who wants to rob a convenience store. Now you're just being silly and grasping at straws.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
And there is no way that you could have covered yourself up so that your clothing did not receive any splatter.


Without leaving fingerprints or DNA at the scene? Unlikely. Plus, if I 'covered up' with something, it would either A) be visible on my person as I left or B) be left at the scene....with my DNA and/or fingerprints all over it.

If you want to have a serious discussion, then do so. But I'm not "The Predator" and I left my "light-bending" camoflage suit in my other pants. This isn't Star Trek.

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 7:47:03 PM   
blacksword404


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
And we all know that no technology can be subverted. Remember that light can be bent.


Light-bending technology is so new and so faulty, there's very little chance of it being put to use in that fashion, especially by some punk who wants to rob a convenience store. Now you're just being silly and grasping at straws.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
And there is no way that you could have covered yourself up so that your clothing did not receive any splatter.


Without leaving fingerprints or DNA at the scene? Unlikely. Plus, if I 'covered up' with something, it would either A) be visible on my person as I left or B) be left at the scene....with my DNA and/or fingerprints all over it.

If you want to have a serious discussion, then do so. But I'm not "The Predator" and I left my "light-bending" camoflage suit in my other pants. This isn't Star Trek.


"At the quantum level, an effect known as Delbruck scattering can occur
where it is thought that an extremely powerful EM wave can break a
photon down into an electron and a positron, both of which do carry a
charge and can therefore have their paths altered by an EM field.

This effect is extremely difficult to observe and probably too small
to measure given the nature of such things and the Heisenberg
Uncertainty Principal, but there can be a scattering effect where the
particle and anti-particle annihilate each other and form two
lower-energy photons which then travel in different directions."
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/430345.html

One thing about is there is no technology that cannot be broken. On the one hand you want to use video to convict until it's you. Then you want to diminish the video evidence and go with other evidence.

The more lazy and stupid people rely on technology instead of the old reliable brain, the more room there is for expert criminals to slide on thru.

You have a RF card on your key chain to open and start your car? Wow. So do I. Same frequency as yours. Say bye to your car.


_____________________________

Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

Genuine catnip/kryptonite.
Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 7:59:20 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
One thing about is there is no technology that cannot be broken. On the one hand you want to use video to convict until it's you. Then you want to diminish the video evidence and go with other evidence.


First, I never said to use "only" video and to do away with other evidence. Secondly, DNA is responsible for getting off MANY people who were previously convicted based on eye-witness testimony. Perhaps if there were cameras present at the time they wouldn't have been convicted in the first place (camera's don't make up details like the human mind can under stress).

Furthermore, I never said not to rely on the video "because it's me." I simply said that, in my vision of wide-spread video use, there would likely be evidence exonerating me, unlike the 'trap door theory' you tried to present. You see, I mentioned the need for cameras and then back it up saying that all of the ways you tried to shoot holes in my concept would have back-fired, as there would also be other evidence *as well as* video of this "one-armed man in a secret passage" you tried to imagine. (Honestly, secret passages and trap doors? You been reading too many James Bond novels or what?)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
The more lazy and stupid people rely on technology instead of the old reliable brain, the more room there is for expert criminals to slide on thru.


"Old reliable brains" have convicted more innocent people than video ever has or will. Can cameras be "beaten?" Yes, in theory it is possible. But it's a capability and method the average street thug won't have access or operational knowledge of.

I can see you've never taken a psychology class. There have been whole studies on what happens in times of stress or in tense situations. Cops can interview several people present during a bank robbery and get several different descriptions of the suspect and his car. Video remains constant no matter how stressful the situation gets.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
You have a RF card on your key chain to open and start your car? Wow. So do I. Same frequency as yours. Say bye to your car.


Again, highly unlikely. But nice attempt at totally changing subjects.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 8:42:30 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
The US has way to many laws that result in jail time. Most of the prisoners are there for drugs. Well, obviously it's been 20 Plus years fighting a complete failure of a war, and most of those in there for non-violent drug use, should be released.


Yeah, I'm sure the drug laws, or lack thereof, were all well and good until crackheads starting killing people over just enough money for their next 'fix.'

As the drug-related crimes got more common, they needed to crack down on the drugs themselves. I'd theorize that the majority of people don't give a rat's ass who shoots what into their own veins. But when that poison is sold to kids, or when someone 'jonesing' for their next hit robs and kills someone, then it becomes a problem.

And when do you address the problem? After the junkie murders someone? Too late then, person's already dead. So they try and control it as much as possible so that the innocent don't get murdered. If anyone has a better idea to stop junkies from getting stoned and killing someone because they thought they were under attack/being funny/whatever I'd love to hear them.



Well you know Mister Loki45 the cost of producing the drug that the addicts are trying to get is pennies. The whole value of the drug is a consequence of the illegal nature of it, and the hoops and risks one must go through to get it to the demand source. Also, the only reason kids to a large degree get super easy access to the drug is because they purchase it from unregulated sources, it would be much harder to get if there was some legal alternative source the addicted to could get it from.

Also violence is largely a function of the illegal nature, I mean I'm no scholar but prohibition pretty well proves that.

My solution is you simply give the crackhead crack, or some equivalent clean alternative, that they can only do in a supervised medical environment, while there you can offer them treatment, as contrary to popular belief, many drug addicts would prefer to be clean, and not prostitute themselves if not for the compulsion.

There, a better non-perfect solution than this shit-fest we have now.  Or you can just pay billions more, lock them in a hole, don't really treat shit, let them hate the state, release them with a felony conviction, which really looks bad on a resume even if you clean up later. Essentially, fuck them forever, why not do drugs at that point.

Anyway, point is almost nothing could be worse than the current system as it promotes, violence, prostitution, access to drugs by kids, permanent social disability, and disease.  The only world for this system is STUPID.

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 9:00:43 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

Easy or hard, he's gonna do it. At least if we have cameras everywhere, the innocent can be a bit safer.
What was that line about liberty and safety.....

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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 9:02:34 PM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

And what about all the crimes that are not committed in public space?

Why that's simple, just put motion sensitive cameras in every room in the country as well...and remote sensors scattered about the wilderness, hell why stop there, why not just chip everybody with a GPS chip, so that the government will be able to locate anybody at any time.....for the safety of all of course.


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to calamitysandra)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 9:16:32 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

And what about all the crimes that are not committed in public space?

Why that's simple, just put motion sensitive cameras in every room in the country as well...and remote sensors scattered about the wilderness, hell why stop there, why not just chip everybody with a GPS chip, so that the government will be able to locate anybody at any time.....for the safety of all of course.



You guys aren't even being creative, what you do is remove some vital piece of the human body like the pancreas, well, then what you do is couple the chip you are talking about above, with an automatic insulin system. So, if they remove the tracking chip/insulin maker device, they'll die without insulin. Well, to solve the tampering problem, as obviously they could inject insulin obtained on the illegal black market. If the device is A. Exposed to Air, it will inject a lethal dose into their system, also coupled with that is if the tracking device does not make contact with the central server every five minutes it will also result in a lethal immediate dose.

These devices, will be 100% hardware based software embedded systems. with only a small amount of cache to facilitate momentary linkage breakages with the central server.

Virtually 100% safety for all, as anyone observed doing a crime, could be killed instantly. Removal of the device, or attempting to subvert the main server(to prevent the risk of complete death of all people instantly, the main server would only control small regions of the larger grid), would result in certain death.



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RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 9:17:22 PM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

And what about all the crimes that are not committed in public space?

Why that's simple, just put motion sensitive cameras in every room in the country as well...and remote sensors scattered about the wilderness, hell why stop there, why not just chip everybody with a GPS chip, so that the government will be able to locate anybody at any time.....for the safety of all of course.



Some have drank the coolaid and think it taste wonderful.

All of this trading freedom for security ends up with you a slave and still not safe.

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(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Are the times really 'a' changin'? Prison. - 7/31/2009 9:50:01 PM   
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Posts: 2895
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
The US has way to many laws that result in jail time. Most of the prisoners are there for drugs. Well, obviously it's been 20 Plus years fighting a complete failure of a war, and most of those in there for non-violent drug use, should be released.


Yeah, I'm sure the drug laws, or lack thereof, were all well and good until crackheads starting killing people over just enough money for their next 'fix.'

As the drug-related crimes got more common, they needed to crack down on the drugs themselves. I'd theorize that the majority of people don't give a rat's ass who shoots what into their own veins. But when that poison is sold to kids, or when someone 'jonesing' for their next hit robs and kills someone, then it becomes a problem.

And when do you address the problem? After the junkie murders someone? Too late then, person's already dead. So they try and control it as much as possible so that the innocent don't get murdered. If anyone has a better idea to stop junkies from getting stoned and killing someone because they thought they were under attack/being funny/whatever I'd love to hear them.



Well you know Mister Loki45 the cost of producing the drug that the addicts are trying to get is pennies. The whole value of the drug is a consequence of the illegal nature of it, and the hoops and risks one must go through to get it to the demand source. Also, the only reason kids to a large degree get super easy access to the drug is because they purchase it from unregulated sources, it would be much harder to get if there was some legal alternative source the addicted to could get it from.

Also violence is largely a function of the illegal nature, I mean I'm no scholar but prohibition pretty well proves that.

My solution is you simply give the crackhead crack, or some equivalent clean alternative, that they can only do in a supervised medical environment, while there you can offer them treatment, as contrary to popular belief, many drug addicts would prefer to be clean, and not prostitute themselves if not for the compulsion.

There, a better non-perfect solution than this shit-fest we have now.  Or you can just pay billions more, lock them in a hole, don't really treat shit, let them hate the state, release them with a felony conviction, which really looks bad on a resume even if you clean up later. Essentially, fuck them forever, why not do drugs at that point.

Anyway, point is almost nothing could be worse than the current system as it promotes, violence, prostitution, access to drugs by kids, permanent social disability, and disease.  The only world for this system is STUPID.



Nicely said. I can't think of a better solution for treating such a horrendous symptom.




(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 80
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