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'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/30/2009 5:39:53 AM

aranisiA

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Joined: 10/19/2008
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I've seen this term pop up occasionally, but I haven't managed to figure out what exactly is meant by it. I've understood that followers of 'Old Guard' are generally more than averagely interested in following 'proper procedures' and upholding protocol..but what are these protocols? Anyone care to explain this to a rather confused Norwegian individual who's still fairly new in this lifestyle and has an insatifiable hunger for knowledge?

Thank you kindly in advance!

Post #: 1

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/30/2009 6:59:33 AM

chiaThePet

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Apparently there's this pasture in the country where the "old" ones gather to piss on each other.

Just something I heard.

chia* (the pet)

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You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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Post #: 2

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/30/2009 6:59:46 AM

RedMagic1

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Joined: 5/10/2007
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There is a lot of misinformation about the term "Old Guard," which you will see right away if you use the Search feature of these forums, and read the people posting facts trying to calm down the people who are just posting myths and getting pissed because no one believes them.

This link is a great place to start.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=150048

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Post #: 3

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/30/2009 7:56:28 AM

CelticPrince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet

Apparently there's this pasture in the country where the "old" ones gather to piss on each other.

Just something I heard.

chia* (the pet)

quote:

Apparently there's this pasture in the country where the "old" ones gather to piss on each other.

Just something I heard.

chia* (the pet)

NUTS

CP

(in reply to chiaThePet)

Post #: 4

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/30/2009 7:58:17 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aranisiA

I've seen this term pop up occasionally, but I haven't managed to figure out what exactly is meant by it. I've understood that followers of 'Old Guard' are generally more than averagely interested in following 'proper procedures' and upholding protocol..but what are these protocols? Anyone care to explain this to a rather confused Norwegian individual who's still fairly new in this lifestyle and has an insatifiable hunger for knowledge?

Thank you kindly in advance!

quote:

I've seen this term pop up occasionally, but I haven't managed to figure out what exactly is meant by it. I've understood that followers of 'Old Guard' are generally more than averagely interested in following 'proper procedures' and upholding protocol..but what are these protocols? Anyone care to explain this to a rather confused Norwegian individual who's still fairly new in this lifestyle and has an insatifiable hunger for knowledge?

Thank you kindly in advance!

aranisiA,

Check out the comments on Bears thread, a Matter of Honor!

CP

(in reply to aranisiA)

Post #: 5

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/30/2009 8:03:47 AM

chiaThePet

Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet

Apparently there's this pasture in the country where the "old" ones gather to piss on each other.

Just something I heard.

chia* (the pet)

quote:

Apparently there's this pasture in the country where the "old" ones gather to piss on each other.

Just something I heard.

chia* (the pet)

NUTS

CP

Well, I didn't want to judge.

chia* (the pet)

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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Post #: 6

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/30/2009 8:37:50 AM

Zeknpet

Posts: 38
Joined: 1/31/2005
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We had some conversation with a couple on Swinglifestyle.com for a few days. He wanted to learn about BDSM and asked if we might act as mentors. leslie and I invited them over. Only the guy showed up, saying "Oh, she had to go out of town for a work assignment." leslie and I decided to do our thing and let him watch.

The following day he popped up on our radar as having changed all his profiles to say he was an "Old Guard Dom"

The words don't mean shit.

What people DO tells you all you need to know about them.

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Post #: 7

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/30/2009 9:21:46 AM

Arpig

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quote:

The words don't mean shit.

Let me repeat for emphasis...The words don't mean shit.

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Post #: 8

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/30/2009 9:20:11 PM

FangsNfeet

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Welcome to Old Guard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTJMerul33E

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Post #: 9

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/30/2009 10:56:48 PM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Welcome to Old Guard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTJMerul33E

LMAO... well put!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[edit] Dont forget to wear your hanky (or keys).

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< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 7/30/2009 10:59:35 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/31/2009 2:05:26 AM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aranisiA

I've seen this term pop up occasionally, but I haven't managed to figure out what exactly is meant by it. I've understood that followers of 'Old Guard' are generally more than averagely interested in following 'proper procedures' and upholding protocol..but what are these protocols? Anyone care to explain this to a rather confused Norwegian individual who's still fairly new in this lifestyle and has an insatifiable hunger for knowledge?

Thank you kindly in advance!

Princess = Old Guard for Alpha female slave.
Prinsexx = princess + sex + xx power
Also older, wiser and guarded.

Prinsexx: Resident Thread Finisher this thread only

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Post #: 11

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/31/2009 3:18:04 AM

Leonidas

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Joined: 2/16/2004
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It's just about all "urban legend", my friend. Some people use the term to refer to a high-protocol, military style of organized SM with some distinguishing characteristics, one of which is that you enter as a "bottom" or "submissive" and only become a "dominant" or "master" after you come up through the ranks. As with most legends, it has some basis in long ago fact, and the "protocols" that you hear about are an amalgum of customs that were observed in some place at some time by (mostly gay) men in the post WWII era, and, depending on who is telling the legend, some that they probably made up themselves.

I'm sure you have some legends in Norway, but I don't know what they are. Anyway, people who claim to be "old guard" are trying to associate themselves with the legend so that they seem more mysterious and knowledgable than they actually are.

Hope that helps.

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Leonidas

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Post #: 12

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/31/2009 4:12:38 AM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

It's just about all "urban legend", my friend. Some people use the term to refer to a high-protocol, military style of organized SM with some distinguishing characteristics, one of which is that you enter as a "bottom" or "submissive" and only become a "dominant" or "master" after you come up through the ranks. As with most legends, it has some basis in long ago fact, and the "protocols" that you hear about are an amalgum of customs that were observed in some place at some time by (mostly gay) men in the post WWII era, and, depending on who is telling the legend, some that they probably made up themselves.

I'm sure you have some legends in Norway, but I don't know what they are. Anyway, people who claim to be "old guard" are trying to associate themselves with the legend so that they seem more mysterious and knowledgable than they actually are.

Hope that helps.

What Leonidas says

For christs sake man, your a Viking. Believe me you don't need legend.

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Post #: 13

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/31/2009 4:21:50 AM

VanityFix

Posts: 141
Joined: 7/20/2009
Status: offline

when i first came out as bi/gay around 15 i sought out alot of gay history as a way of identifying with a culture.
i thought old guard as what i heard of it was a kinda protective force of some type of leatherman based on protecting the gay community from homophobia, such as pink/lavander panthers

i took alot of beliefs of "gay code of conduct" from such mythology, such as never outing someone, only calling another gay/bi man a f*g if in good company(taking back power from the word kinda thing), and standing up against homophobia directed against others as well as myself no matter the cost

i dont claim to be old guard at all, im just saying my views of what i thought old guard was are probly pretty outlandish and so other peoples views probly vary greatly as well.

as i read elsewhere old guard being a predominantly gay male group in the 70s 80s would have suffered greatly when hiv hit the gay community and lost alot of its members to the disease, thus probly a major factor why so little and scattered information is around.

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 14

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/31/2009 7:24:34 AM

Zeknpet

Posts: 38
Joined: 1/31/2005
Status: offline

I will add... Old Guard USED to mean...

Back in the 50's and 60's BDSM was often surrounded by a code of ethics and was often utterly devoid of sexuality. The advent of telecommunications pushed BDSM into a more mainstream light and various player of different genres came out and thereby intermingled. The preexisting BDSM scene with it's traditions of honor and protocol felt largely that the new blood were infidels of some sort. Now many different play styles are mixed, which is exactly how humans work.

For centuries we have idolized the Library of Alexandria yet we scoff at the internet as familiarity indeed breeds contempt. Truth is, the internet makes the library of Alexandria look like a piker. People are exchanging ideas, comparing notes, sharing experiences, crossing lines and attaching their own values to what they do.

Such is life.

If you're in my living room and tell me you're old guard, you'd BEST be over 55 and BEEN THERE. Otherwise you're a poser. or at least a noob romantic trying to make a statement, which though the sentiment is appreciated. it's not how people take it if they know what Old Guard was/is in reality.

There was a time where people got killed, arrested, firebombed and or socially ostracized for doing this shit. The concept of honor and social discipline was necessary to keep ranks closed and keep participants safe from the vanilla world at large.

If you didn't live THAT, at least to me, you have no right to the term Old Guard. I personally would never use the term and, honestly, when I meet someone that WAS involved in BDSM life at that crucible time I feel I owe them something, starting with a /salute.

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RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/31/2009 3:16:21 PM

AnimusRex

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Old Guard vies with the "old Houses of Europe" as the grand prize winner of the BDSM Bullshit Hall of Fame.

Except that Old Guard might have actually had some sort of truth to it at one time.

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Post #: 16

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/31/2009 3:59:59 PM

Prinsexx

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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Don't knock history.
I also remember not only imprisonment and arrest but suicide because of the repression of sexual orientation and predilection.
i am thankful for The Victorian notions of Master of the House, 'The English (as in caning and the Public School system and indeed the 1950's household.
I am thankful for protocols which indeed safeguarded those whose desires lay ourside of the conformity of the norm. Layer this with the hedonism and political freedom of the 1960's and the liberation of Eastern Europe and pansexualism of the late 90's and 2000's and we are pretty much retrospective in all that we do.

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Post #: 17

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/31/2009 4:14:31 PM

littlesarbonn

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From: Stockton, California
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There are a few women I've known over the years who I would definitely define as old guard. What I've discovered in lots of interactions with lots of different dominant women is that the ones who pronounce being old guard the most, usually aren't.

As for male, old guard, I'm not an expert on that. I've run into a lot of posturing over the years that gets old, especially the male dominants who get all up in my face about how I should be serving them, too, because a "real" submissive is submissive to all dominants, regardless of gender. Not surprisingly, I've discovered a lot of the male "old guard" guys who claim to be such tend to be those same types of people. But that's just been my experience, and honestly, I'm NO expert on male dominants, nor am I all that experienced in encounters with them. This is what I experience when involved with female dominants (who happen to be around male dominants...which I think is a really strange dynamic sometimes and could probably fill volumes of psychiatric textbooks).

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Post #: 18

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/31/2009 5:02:57 PM

GYPZYQUEEN

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Joined: 4/14/2009
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OP::

When I hear OLD GUARD I immediately think of RESPECT...for play partners and others..a code of ethics...a system and way of doing things safely..
Why?
I guess from some research...meeting some who say they are OLD GUARD and more..
It is my understanding the "old gaurd" was developed after the war..and is/was a"branch" of the gay leather community....one of several including..biker type..and military type..
I for one am thankful for the many books..workshops..lobbying...public coming out..
and education these PIONEERS who went before us have done.

I found www.lexlyons.org ( oldguard) helpful

GQ
ps..if I was an old guard guy I would be wearing the apricot scarf in my left

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Post #: 19

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/31/2009 5:42:28 PM

beargonewild

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From my understanding, the "old guard" was primary delegated to the gay leather crowd who had created a set of rituals and protocols that reflected the respect and honor and a unity among the members. To which, the phrase "earning your leather" was born and to some extent that ritual is still carried on today.

It is sad to see many either scoff or deride the elders who identified as "old guard." What is even more disappointing is reading how people of my generation (40's) and younger who find some truth which resonates within and want to learn that tradition and make it a part of their own ethos. Granted the younger generation can't lay claim to being "old guard'" yet maybe we older folks should try to help them learn and understand instead of scoffing at the concept of old guard and the ones who have a genuine interest.

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Post #: 20

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