RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors

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NihilusZero -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/7/2009 11:08:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2 This really hits home with me as well. I, too, feel that all guys are the same, and that one way or another, things are going to end hurtfully and badly. It sounds, though, like there are at least a FEW great guys out there, including yours. This will kind of irk me. Surely each individual weighs the pros and cons of his or her relationships and determines how far is too far to go in handling baggage. It's not a bad thing to want to have someone who you feel will stand by you through your negatives. But summarily decrying, as qualification for being a "great guy", the willingness to suffer continual emotional baggage for a potentially positive outcome is unfair and paints anyone who holds true to their own limits as being some sort of quitter (or at least, not "great"). Would we say that the only "great" partners (using another example) are those who are willing to endure a significant other with a presumable sex-addiction, to where they stay the path through countless infidelities until the partner is able to get that part of their life together?

HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/7/2009 12:26:24 PM)
quote: This will kind of irk me. Surely each individual weighs the pros and cons of his or her relationships and determines how far is too far to go in handling baggage. It's not a bad thing to want to have someone who you feel will stand by you through your negatives. But summarily decrying, as qualification for being a "great guy", the willingness to suffer continual emotional baggage for a potentially positive outcome is unfair and paints anyone who holds true to their own limits as being some sort of quitter (or at least, not "great"). Would we say that the only "great" partners (using another example) are those who are willing to endure a significant other with a presumable sex-addiction, to where they stay the path through countless infidelities until the partner is able to get that part of their life together? You are oh so right, really. The problem for me, and I imagine for a lot of girls out there, is that we assume all guys are "bad", and the reason we assume this is because, quite frankly, most of the guys who came before the current guy have been "bad". I know it's not fair to punish someone for the mistakes of others, but I'm sure that most members of the male species has encountered this situation before... because it is so common. Regardless, you've given great food for thought that hopefully some of us (including myself) can learn from.

allthatjaz -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/7/2009 12:36:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2 I have a question though -- you say he never threatened to end things -- did YOU ever threaten to end things? I have a horrible habit of doing that, myself, because it seems like it will hurt less than if he is the one who chooses to leave. If you did ever do this, what was his reaction? Hi HarderToBreathe2 In answer to your question, yes I have and I did it for the very same reasons that you have. Its not something I have done often but I am guilty of at least throwing this at him twice. His reaction was the same both times. He told me that he was not just going to let that happen and gave me time to explain why I was feeling that way, before making me convince myself that I am making the wrong decision. He never got angry or irrational but neither did he offer to go. His calmness and patience actually made me feel ashamed. I know that I did this because I needed the reassertion of his love (totally selfish, I know) It sounds like we are in some sort of dysfunctional relationship, we are not, in fact far from it and as time goes by I have grown in confidence regarding our relationship and learnt to embrace what we have.

lateralist1 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/7/2009 1:28:29 PM)
Relationships are difficult but precious. All we can do is our best. Good luck to both of you. I agree that physical comfort is important to most of us when things get difficult or even when they don't.

HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/7/2009 1:52:39 PM)
quote: Hi HarderToBreathe2 In answer to your question, yes I have and I did it for the very same reasons that you have. Its not something I have done often but I am guilty of at least throwing this at him twice. His reaction was the same both times. He told me that he was not just going to let that happen and gave me time to explain why I was feeling that way, before making me convince myself that I am making the wrong decision. He never got angry or irrational but neither did he offer to go. His calmness and patience actually made me feel ashamed. I know that I did this because I needed the reassertion of his love (totally selfish, I know) It sounds like we are in some sort of dysfunctional relationship, we are not, in fact far from it and as time goes by I have grown in confidence regarding our relationship and learnt to embrace what we have. Hi Maria, It is really nice to know that I'm not the only one who does this, and that there is someone who understands that I'm not a horrible person for doing it. What a great guy you have. That's exactly what I need from someone, the same sort of reaction. My guy actually reacted in much the same way (calmly, logically, and with care) in the beginning when I was resistant to moving the relationship forward in any way (out of fear, of course, fear that I'd get in too deep and get hurt). But he really took it to heart when I "ended" things the first two times and did not react in such a way. He pretty much said that it made him lose all trust in me, which I'm sure you know feels just horrible, to cause that in someone you care about. This time, I have no idea what's he's thinking, because we haven't talked since I sent the email telling him let's end it on Wednesday night. Just utter silence, even though we're both signed on to yahoo. I'm not sure if he wants me to say something or not, but I sure as hell wish that HE would!!

DesFIP -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 7:57:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2 You are oh so right, really. The problem for me, and I imagine for a lot of girls out there, is that we assume all guys are "bad", and the reason we assume this is because, quite frankly, most of the guys who came before the current guy have been "bad". I know it's not fair to punish someone for the mistakes of others, but I'm sure that most members of the male species has encountered this situation before... because it is so common. Regardless, you've given great food for thought that hopefully some of us (including myself) can learn from. HtB2, you're misssing the most important thing here. Your responsibility. You looked around a crowded room, so to speak, and picked the partner who would cheat on you. Those of us with great guys didn't pick any of those men. We waited till we found someone we knew was worth trusting, with whom we had great compatibility, who inspired our love, respect, submission and every other positive feeling. The real problem is why do you only get turned on by the bad guys? I would suggest some form of therapy so you can learn to like the good guys instead and learn how to pick them. One on one, group or a self help group like ACOA. Either do something about you, or keep meeting bad guys.

HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 10:10:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP HtB2, you're misssing the most important thing here. Your responsibility. You looked around a crowded room, so to speak, and picked the partner who would cheat on you. Those of us with great guys didn't pick any of those men. We waited till we found someone we knew was worth trusting, with whom we had great compatibility, who inspired our love, respect, submission and every other positive feeling. The real problem is why do you only get turned on by the bad guys? I would suggest some form of therapy so you can learn to like the good guys instead and learn how to pick them. One on one, group or a self help group like ACOA. Either do something about you, or keep meeting bad guys. Hi Des. Thanks for putting me back in my place, so to speak. ;) You're right, I was missing the point. Or maybe not really missing it, but allowing myself to focus on something other than working on my own self. I've never heard of ACOA, I'm going to have to look that up, thanks. :)

HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 10:12:24 AM)
Hi Whiplash. I'm feeling like I somewhat hijacked your thread, which is not cool and I'm sorry!!! I didn't mean to butt in, I just found myself relating to a lot of the discussion. How are things currently going with your situation??

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 11:30:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2 Hi Whiplash. I'm feeling like I somewhat hijacked your thread, which is not cool and I'm sorry!!! I didn't mean to butt in, I just found myself relating to a lot of the discussion. How are things currently going with your situation?? Nah.. you did'nt hijack it at all and everything is all cool with the posts you been making. It does relate in a number of ways.

yummee -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 1:03:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2 It is really nice to know that I'm not the only one who does this, and that there is someone who understands that I'm not a horrible person for doing it. What a great guy you have. That's exactly what I need from someone, the same sort of reaction. My guy actually reacted in much the same way (calmly, logically, and with care) in the beginning when I was resistant to moving the relationship forward in any way (out of fear, of course, fear that I'd get in too deep and get hurt). But he really took it to heart when I "ended" things the first two times and did not react in such a way. He pretty much said that it made him lose all trust in me, which I'm sure you know feels just horrible, to cause that in someone you care about. This time, I have no idea what's he's thinking, because we haven't talked since I sent the email telling him let's end it on Wednesday night. Just utter silence, even though we're both signed on to yahoo. I'm not sure if he wants me to say something or not, but I sure as hell wish that HE would!! Hi HarderToBreathe2, I have been wanting to comment on much of what you said, but this bolded portion tipped the scales. I am really seeing a whole lot of "me me me blah blah me me ME" in your posts. It seems as if the actual guy matters very little other than "will this guy stick it out with me even when I am totally irrational, do hurtful things to him, leave him, and so on?" Is that your only criteria in a guy ... that he stay with you during this roller coaster while you try to sabotage the relationship (probably by hurting him badly if he loves you)? Are you aware at all of what this guy needs or deserves from his partner/submissive? How much of this back-and-forth torture will it take before you feel secure enough that you can stop hurting him and accept that he will stay? or is it permanent or indefinate? If you had a son/brother/loved one and he fell for a girl just like you who would do those things to your loved one that you have done to your past men, would you be happy or horrified? Would you tolerate this behavior from a man or would you run for the hills the first time he "left" you (but not really, maybe he was just waiting for you to call and beg him to come back?) You dumped this guy AGAIN for no reason other than you are scared or self-destructive. Are you waiting for him to prove his worth by begging you to reconsider? Is that what would make him a "great guy"? I don't mean to be harsh, but am wondering if you've ever even asked yourself these kinds of questions. Think of him for a moment and what is best for him. If that is you, then step up and be good for him. If that is not you, be aware enough to just let him go now that you've hurt him by dumping him a third time (and will likely continue the pattern). Maybe you should look into some counseling or self-help type books, learn how to think differently and turn off those negative voices in your head. I wish you the best. amy

seababy -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 2:04:58 PM)
The problem in finding a great guy is, if he really is an emotionally healthy human being (which I guess is what you want) he will walk away from a destructive relationship. Your S/O is not your therapist. (unless he actually is your therapist.) You are acting as the emotional abuser in this relationship. Being terribly hurt and insecure doesn't give you some sort of moral out on this. I am not saying this to be judgmental.. If your the sort of person who is brave enough to post you have a self destructive problem then I'm sure you are open to what I hope is constructive criticism. Can you work it out alone? Who knows, maybe, probably. The difference is years on the same treadmill or getting help and moving on so much quicker. Get counseling. If you first counselor therapist sucks keep searching until you find a good one. In Australia there are a lot of free counseling services available. Don't know what it is like where you are. I use to be a do it yourself type and thought therapy or counseling was for those not smart enough to work it out themselves.(Therefore my ego told me I definitely didn't need it). I had something bad happen in my life that effected me for years. An incredibly short period of counseling really turned that around and my one wish was that I had done it so much sooner so I didn't have quite so many unnecessary mistakes littered behind me. I was going to just CMail this to you under the excuse that criticism is better handled on a one to one basis. However after reading this thread it looks like your pretty good at taking it on the chin and it was just a bullshit excuse for me not wanting to mention I had counseling on a issue (how hypocritical is that?!) So here it is for what its worth. Kind regards Sea

sabis -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 2:36:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gromgor My suggestion, dress up as a priest, put her in the closet on a chair, shut the door and tell her to confess to you through the door. Then give her 10 Hail Mary's and make her swallow some truth serum. And by truth serum I mean big fat load of cum. This made me grin and squirm. ;) In His service, ~sabis Owned by Cumulus

HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 2:42:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yummee Hi HarderToBreathe2, I have been wanting to comment on much of what you said, but this bolded portion tipped the scales. I am really seeing a whole lot of "me me me blah blah me me ME" in your posts. It seems as if the actual guy matters very little other than "will this guy stick it out with me even when I am totally irrational, do hurtful things to him, leave him, and so on?" Is that your only criteria in a guy ... that he stay with you during this roller coaster while you try to sabotage the relationship (probably by hurting him badly if he loves you)? Are you aware at all of what this guy needs or deserves from his partner/submissive? How much of this back-and-forth torture will it take before you feel secure enough that you can stop hurting him and accept that he will stay? or is it permanent or indefinate? If you had a son/brother/loved one and he fell for a girl just like you who would do those things to your loved one that you have done to your past men, would you be happy or horrified? Would you tolerate this behavior from a man or would you run for the hills the first time he "left" you (but not really, maybe he was just waiting for you to call and beg him to come back?) You dumped this guy AGAIN for no reason other than you are scared or self-destructive. Are you waiting for him to prove his worth by begging you to reconsider? Is that what would make him a "great guy"? I don't mean to be harsh, but am wondering if you've ever even asked yourself these kinds of questions. Think of him for a moment and what is best for him. If that is you, then step up and be good for him. If that is not you, be aware enough to just let him go now that you've hurt him by dumping him a third time (and will likely continue the pattern). Maybe you should look into some counseling or self-help type books, learn how to think differently and turn off those negative voices in your head. I wish you the best. amy Hi Amy. Thank you for your veiwpoint. Honestly, what you said is really hitting home with me right now, because you're right. Others on here have said similar, and they were just as correct. Sometimes it just takes a while to really get the message. I know it may not sound like it, because I have been very selfish and self-focused about what I need, just like you said... but I really do care for this guy very much. He's sweet and kind, funny, smart as a whip, mature, easy-going, affectionate and attentive (until i pushed him away, of course). I love the way his mind works, I love the way he's able to so clearly express his thoughts, I even love the way he forms his sentences. I find him very sexually attractive as well, but that's not what is most important to me. I fully appreciate all his wonderful qualities, I really do. I have tried to let him know how I feel about him many times. We were only about 5 weeks in, but had gotten to know each other fairly well through long daily conversations. We really connected and wanted the same things from a relationship. I can honestly say, and I mean this from the very depth of my being, that I did and do want him to feel happy, and I did what I could to make him happy... sometimes just little things... and sometimes things which I have never done with ANYone else, things I did because simply because I wanted to please him. But then there are the other times, when I've been very selfish. I didn't see it that way, but I'm definitely seeing it now. I wish I couldve done better, but i can't undo it. All i can do is try to learn from this. You know how Oprah always says "When you know better, you do better". (although i think she was quoting Maya Angelou) I wish I knew what he wanted, and I would do it. If that means my never speaking to him again b/c he just wants me to completely go away, then that would feel horrible to me, but I would have to accept that as a consequence of my behavior and respect his wishes. But if there was something else i could do or say to make him feel wanted and appreciated, i would do it in a heartbeat. I don't KNOW what he wants though. Understandably enough, he won't talk to me. I've sent him a couple messages trying to let him know that I'm sorry and that I care, but now i'm thinking that maybe even my messages were too self-focused. The reason i try to explain things to him is so that he understands where this comes from... and the reason i want him to understand where this comes from is because i don't want him to feel bad. I'm not just saying that, or saying it at all lightly. I really don't want him to feel bad. He's an amazing and special person and i really felt, and still feel, deep care for him. I havent really said much about him specifically in these threads because it felt weird to be talking about him in public without his knowledge of it. So I tried to delve into my own issues instead and get feedback on that, which i then hoped i could use as food for thought to try to change some things about myself. And it's been really very helpful and eye-opening, without a doubt. BTW, I have been to counseling, and I'm the queen of self-help books. I spend a lot of time looking inward and trying to work things out with myself. I guess it's hard for any of us to say out loud to the world (or in this forum) the brutally honest truth of who you are. But I'll say that I can be selfish, insecure, defensive, overly sensitive, introverted to the point of shutting people out sometimes, too emotional at times, not emotional enough at times. There are times when I really don't like who I am. There's rarely a day that goes by when I don't feel guilty about something, whether it's something I've done recently or something from long ago. But I can also say that I'm sweet, fairly intelligent (i think, lol), open-minded, accepting of others, creative, organized, etc etc. I guess I have a love-hate relationship with myself. Which maybe we ALL do. But here I go talking about me me me again, right, so I'll just end this with another big THANK YOU for speaking the harsh truth. I needed to hear it.

HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 2:47:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seababy The problem in finding a great guy is, if he really is an emotionally healthy human being (which I guess is what you want) he will walk away from a destructive relationship. Your S/O is not your therapist. (unless he actually is your therapist.) You are acting as the emotional abuser in this relationship. Being terribly hurt and insecure doesn't give you some sort of moral out on this. I am not saying this to be judgmental.. If your the sort of person who is brave enough to post you have a self destructive problem then I'm sure you are open to what I hope is constructive criticism. Can you work it out alone? Who knows, maybe, probably. The difference is years on the same treadmill or getting help and moving on so much quicker. Get counseling. If you first counselor therapist sucks keep searching until you find a good one. In Australia there are a lot of free counseling services available. Don't know what it is like where you are. I use to be a do it yourself type and thought therapy or counseling was for those not smart enough to work it out themselves.(Therefore my ego told me I definitely didn't need it). I had something bad happen in my life that effected me for years. An incredibly short period of counseling really turned that around and my one wish was that I had done it so much sooner so I didn't have quite so many unnecessary mistakes littered behind me. I was going to just CMail this to you under the excuse that criticism is better handled on a one to one basis. However after reading this thread it looks like your pretty good at taking it on the chin and it was just a bullshit excuse for me not wanting to mention I had counseling on a issue (how hypocritical is that?!) So here it is for what its worth. Kind regards Sea Thank you Sea. :) So many people are suggesting counseling that maybe I should take the hint, huh. lol. There is nothing to be ashamed of in your saying that you had counseling for an issue, or even that you have/had a big issue at all. I really admire when people are honest and unapologetic about who they are. :)

seababy -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 2:59:36 PM)
Huh I posted on the wrong thread but it was for you :) You got my drift anyway!

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 3:56:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seababy ... You are acting as the emotional abuser in this relationship. Being terribly hurt and insecure doesn't give you some sort of moral out on this. ... When I confronted my girl about some of the recent things she did, I tried to make her see and understand that what she did was abusive towards me, and that it was not right she was playing the victim blaming somebody else, when I was the one who was the victim. I sincerely have a difficult time being a victim, because of my own screwed up past. Emotionally it does not sit too well with me. While she did not mean or intend to cause me any harm, none the less it did hurt. It hurt me even more to see and understand how badly she was hurting inside to go to such lengths as well. I made it known to her that I did not deserve to be treated like this, that I had done her no harm. In many respects I felt like my emotions and understanding were being somewhat taken advantage of. Now, I much rather give understanding for what is honestly going on, instead of give understanding for some facade that is covering up the real issues. If somebody wants me true understanding of things, it's best to be honest with me. Else the understanding I give is one out of great misunderstanding. Another aspect is the show me you care and give a damn routine, where an emotional response is provoked as proof that one is sincere about their feelings. Takes on other dimensions of the relationship itself, manifests in a number of different ways. We all have played this game with one another at some point in time. However like anything else there are limits as to how far to take it. Trying to intentionally provoke jealously with threats of seeing another using the "you don't seem interested enough in me to.. (do whatever)" rocks the insecurity boat very hard. Not a wise choice of moves. However, none the less this is one form of BLIND abusive behavior. I call it blind because the person that is doing it, does not see how abusive it really is, all the are trying to do is test for a sincere honest emotional reaction from somebody. They just testing to see if somebody has real emotions for them verses some frabricated bullshit. Again, not very wise testing method because it hurts the other person.

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 4:18:34 PM)
I think many of us humans are driven by our own selfish desires, self centered issues and problems that we can become blind to things. However, through experiences that we learn. Through observing what our friends and family goes through and their experineces we learn. Much can be said about emotional investments we make in people, and some of that investment is selfish and also selfless. It's a combination of being selfish and selfless that sort of works out. Mind you, this is coming from the emotional end of things.

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 4:29:52 PM)
I see something greater in my girl that perhaps she does not see in herself. It's thees things that I see in her that make me believe in her. The less than honest or damaging behaviors are not the real issues involved. They are but manifestations of the real issues. I am trying to get myself focused upon the positive things or aspects, because I myself know if the negatives were to over take me in thought, and I lost any and all belief in her. There would not be a chance. I work on keeping my own door open to matter, there are things that are a bit up in the air at the moment. There are a number of known unknowns at the moment. I am trying to keep an open mind to these unknowns. Open mind and open heart at the moment. Dispite the fact that my mind is screaming inside that I want to know everything and everything now. LOL..

sublace -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 6:29:50 PM)
quote: How are things currently going with your situation?? HarderToBreathe2 quote: Open mind and open heart at the moment. Whiplashsmile4 {{{Whiplash & Harder}}} U 2 should hook up [sm=car.gif]

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (8/8/2009 7:48:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sublace quote: How are things currently going with your situation?? HarderToBreathe2 quote: Open mind and open heart at the moment. Whiplashsmile4 {{{Whiplash & Harder}}} U 2 should hook up [sm=car.gif] Passes sublace a big bucket of buttered popcorn and an extra super sized soft drink.

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