RE: Good Without God (Full Version)

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hlen5 -> RE: Good Without God (8/1/2009 11:56:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dan997

I see the atheist ads as promoting critical thought much more than trying to convert anybody or pushing an agenda.


Dan997,

You must be very brave making your first post on the Politics and Religion thread!! Welcome to the boards.  And the ads certainly provoked discussion!!



lazarus1983 -> RE: Good Without God (8/1/2009 1:09:34 PM)

I agree with dan997.

Hell, how about we compromise, and change the ad to, "You can do good with god as much as you can do good without god."

That way, everyone's happy.



DomKen -> RE: Good Without God (8/1/2009 1:13:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I don't like it.  I don't want any proselytizing on city buses.

Now that proselytizing for atheism is permitted, other recognized religions are next.


Never been to Bloomington but I ride buses in chicago regularly and they quiote frequently have religious advertisements. I'd be really shocked if Bloomington was any different.



DomImus -> RE: Good Without God (8/1/2009 3:49:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983
Hell, how about we compromise, and change the ad to, "You can do good with god as much as you can do good without god."

That way, everyone's happy.


Tell me a single religious group that would be happy with an advertisement like that.





DavanKael -> RE: Good Without God (8/1/2009 3:55:09 PM)

I think it only fair (And Constitutional) that non- or anti-religious groups get equal availability to free speech and if the city has or would allow religious groups to ourchase advertising spots, I would argue that it's unconstitutional to deny atheist groups the same.  It's so easy for some to view religious stuff as 'anti-inflammatory' because it's in our face all of the time, America is a Christian nation (For the most part), etc. but to those of us who aren't religious, public declarations of religious preference can be inflammatory as well.  I'm pleased that the group will get to advertise.  I'm betting on some vandalism of busses but I'm pleased that the group will get to advertise. 
  Davan



Termyn8or -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 8:28:44 AM)

FR

They said the "golden rule" was in the Bible, but later it was found that it is not. There are factions of Christians who believe that the ten commandments only apply to Jews, and by the word of the book they make a good case.

Christianity is based on universal forgiveness which is one of the foremost reasons I reject it.

I guess I am just you average atheist deist. I believe there is intelligence in whatever created the universe, or possibly that intelligence is embodied in the universe itself. But all that means nothing because I don't believe such a being would ever contact us directly. Which by extension means that I believe that all of the prophets were either just smart people expressing their views, or totally fucking delusionary.

I give equal weight to the rantings of the writers of the Bible, Koran and so forth that I would give to the rantings of a Native American who has devoured a bunch of peyote seeds and crawled into a hole in the ground for a day or two. There may be words of wisdom contained therein, but it is in no way inspired nor created by our creator. Our creator has been very tight lipped about things.

When you just slip from one religion to another, it is like getting a new pair of crutches, when you reject religion, apply the same logic to all religion and you will find yourself rejecting it all. I will not die for the Pope, nor the Emperer nor anyone else except myself or my family. And when I die I am dead. At that point I expect nothing, and if I get anything, so much to the good. Religion basically teaches to wait for one's reward in heaven, but that concept is so ludicrous that I am surprized that the notion even exists today.

Actually looking at the actions of those supposed modern prophets who propose to tell us what God wants, maybe those notions do not exist today. It has been said to me that religion is just another way of controlling people, and I have no evidence with which to refute that. Do you ?

T



mcbride -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 8:48:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dan997

I see the atheist ads as promoting critical thought much more than trying to convert anybody or pushing an agenda.



So, let's see.  We can believe that a bus ad is likely to change someone's spiritual beliefs, because it's "promoting critical thought", or that it's promoting someone's brand of soap. Okay, that one's not hard.

Today's word is....hubris.



tazzygirl -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 8:52:42 AM)

i just want to point something out. its amazing how many pople turn to god in those last few minutes.



mcbride -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 9:12:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Christianity is based on universal forgiveness which is one of the foremost reasons I reject it.

It has been said to me that religion is just another way of controlling people, and I have no evidence with which to refute that. 


Of course religion is used to control people, just as often, sadly, as atheism is used to control people. I know I don't have to remind someone of your ideological enthusiasms how fervently Communists have advanced atheism as a key component of population control.

So, too, of course, has capitalism, and consumerism, and every other ism out there.



FullCircle -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 9:22:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
i just want to point something out. its amazing how many pople turn to god in those last few minutes.

Does this mean god accepts fear as a substitute for true belief?



Lorr47 -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 9:49:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

I agree with dan997.

Hell, how about we compromise, and change the ad to, "You can do good with god as much as you can do good without god."

That way, everyone's happy.



Yes.



Esinn -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 11:10:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

Way to insult every one who believes in something you don't lol.




Screw that religion is a mental illness.  I do not want to insult those who disagree with this fact, I want to have them medicated and treated.

500-700 years ago people who promoted such logical messages would have done so knowing their was a chance at best they have been killed at worst locked up, tortured then killed because the theist torturing them was bored with their victims screams.

How the truth changes times!  Regardless of the fact this is the most Christian nation on the planet such messages which "spit" on the core values of this religion are common place.



Esinn -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 11:15:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

I know I don't have to remind someone of your ideological enthusiasms how fervently Communists have advanced atheism as a key component of population control.


Yes, you do need to remind us.  Do you have a few(5-10) references to support this claim?



Esinn -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 11:16:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

quote:

ORIGINAL: dan997

I see the atheist ads as promoting critical thought much more than trying to convert anybody or pushing an agenda.



So, let's see.  We can believe that a bus ad is likely to change someone's spiritual beliefs, because it's "promoting critical thought", or that it's promoting someone's brand of soap. Okay, that one's not hard.

Today's word is....hubris.



Who cares if the ad promotes critical thought.  It promotes common sense most religious people forget about.



Esinn -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 11:18:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

I'm betting on some vandalism of busses but I'm pleased that the group will get to advertise. 
Davan


If vandalism does occur this post has been noted.  [:-]



Musicmystery -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 11:18:59 AM)

quote:

It is evident that something as powerful as Man could never have created the universe.  Therefore, something more powerful than Man did it.  The only question is, did this "something" have actual intelligence?


Well, no, not the only question. Time is relative to speed and mass, and like space, curves around gravity, even stopping. It's a huge assumption to maintain the universe must have a creator, intelligent or not--it could have simply always have been. Time, after all, is only a local phenomenon, not a constant.

That assumption also begs the question. Must the creator then have a creator to originate? Oh, that one can just always have been? Seems the story has suddenly changed.

In each case, the assumptions are merely arbitrarily applied. The only difference is religious dogma.



NihilusZero -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 11:21:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

i just want to point something out. its amazing how many pople turn to god in those last few minutes.

It's amazing how these enormous numbers don't seem to ever show up save for the theoretical ruminations of people's imaginations.



Esinn -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 11:23:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl



Carlin was a comedian. and apparently your god..lol


Carlin died happy without god according to his biography.  Now that he is dead is time for all the child like imaginative claims of theists to pretend they know what he is happening to him.



NihilusZero -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 11:25:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

I agree with dan997.

Hell, how about we compromise, and change the ad to, "You can do good with god as much as you can do good without god."

That way, everyone's happy.



Yes.


While we're at it, we should add other popular deities when people invoke the judeo-christian one...you know, like sporting events, political meetins, school's reciting the new pledge of allegiance...

...just so everyone's happy. Oh...and please do make mention of the likelihood of each and every one of those mythological creatures being unreal in more than anyone's head for some of the hard atheists too, please.



Esinn -> RE: Good Without God (8/2/2009 11:25:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

It is evident that something as powerful as Man could never have created the universe.  Therefore, something more powerful than Man did it.  The only question is, did this "something" have actual intelligence?


Well, no, not the only question. Time is relative to speed and mass, and like space, curves around gravity, even stopping. It's a huge assumption to maintain the universe must have a creator, intelligent or not--it could have simply always have been. Time, after all, is only a local phenomenon, not a constant.

That assumption also begs the question. Must the creator then have a creator to originate? Oh, that one can just always have been? Seems the story has suddenly changed.

In each case, the assumptions are merely arbitrarily applied. The only difference is religious dogma.



Why should there be nothing rather than something.



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