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RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:30:29 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
My recollection from Sunday school many long years ago (and supported by several internet cites) is that it was merely a name change when Lucifer was cast out of heaven.
They were wrong.

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RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:31:23 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
But then who cares whether a work of historical fiction rewritten like a game of telephone can have different interpretations?

 
I am going to respond to this, rhetorical or not.
I care.  Sometimes, some people enjoy scriptures and their many interpretations and it is a way of working on the what people believe people believe, and what people really do believe.
To state that Satan and Lucifer are one in the same, would be a miscarriage to the interpretations that are opposite to that line of thinking.
 
You don't have to believe in scriptures to want to understand them.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:32:42 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

according to science?


That depends.
Nothing can really be answered in such a black and white way as you are aiming for.  Black and white would be easier - but neither science nor faith would be half as interesting.

I know that 'that depends' sounds vague.  But you would need to define what exactly you are aiming for, to get clear answers.
  • If you want personal accounts, that desire one to tap into faith.
  • If you want religious comparrisons, one has to delve into the teachings, which are different due to each seperate religion and then each seperate denomination.
  • If you want science comparrisons, one needs to chose the scientific method you want to explore via.

 
the.dark.


ah yes... we believe of faith when we speak of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. since Jesus died so long ago, of course none of us have explored him with the five senses science believes so much in.

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RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:35:59 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
You don't have to believe in scriptures to want to understand them.
Nor does one have to believe in scriptures to be able to understand them.

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Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:36:27 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
ah yes... we believe of faith when we speak of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. since Jesus died so long ago, of course none of us have explored him with the five senses science believes so much in.

 
Again.  I disagree.
I don't want you to feel put on the spot, so please do let me know if you do not wish to answer one or any of the following (I get they are personaish).
 
Do you believe that you understand or know the concept of God? (Lets stick to basic christianity as this seems to be the forefront of discussions and you mentioned Jesus) and what is it?
 
Are you a christian.
 
Do you believe in faith.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:36:57 AM   
GreedyTop


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I believe that, within the majority of religions, all gods are essentially the same god.  If you look at the bare bones of the tenets that most religions espouse, they pretty much boil down to the same things (honor parents, dont kill unnecessarily, etc etc). 

So god(s), to me, embody the same thing, regardless of how god(s) is(are) named.

(edited for better phrasing)


< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 8/4/2009 9:38:12 AM >

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RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:37:45 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		i do understand the philosophy of christianity. i am also deeply faith based.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:38:27 AM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
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Status: offline 		In response to my reply that closed with the suggestion that Esinn shut up, he replied: 
I agree.  There is no more reason you should attempt to speak with me.  After this post I will no longer respond to anything you post on CM.  I will allow you the last word.

****Ummmm, isn't that you getting the last word? 

Then, when I hadn't said anything else, he referenced the same post of mine that I note earlier in this post as well as one from Pyro and said:  The premises of my post were true.  It logically follows my argument was correct as it was valid.

****Er, uh, well, I'm not a mathematical genius (Though shortly, Esinn will proclaim himself to be, in likelihood) but I believe that is time #2 in which you went against the whole statement of giving me the last word. 

A person, like Esinn, who behaves in a wildly illogical fashion really isn't up for an actual debate.  One minute he's saying there's no god, the next minute, he's saying god hates people, then he's off and blathering about 10 different things.  Dealing with psychotics can be exhausting though occasionally amusing.  I think you suggested medication to someone else, Esinn, perhaps it's time for something to level you out. 

And, then there's lots of folks who tried to explain to you your poor interactional skills and rather than behaving in an even remotely respectful fashion, you insulted and attempted to shout them down. 

The best things about this thread, imo: 
Ialdabaoth's Heinlein reference/quote from "Stranger in a Strange Land" with which I wholeheartedly agree. "I am only an egg." 
NihilusZero's speaking of jacking giraffes (Which is just a slice of hilarity for a highly visual person). 

Davan 

< Message edited by DavanKael -- 8/4/2009 9:43:18 AM >

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RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:38:28 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
You don't have to believe in scriptures to want to understand them.
Nor does one have to believe in scriptures to be able to understand them.



I agree, Rule.
I also wanted to add, that sometimes, when we understand a scripture, then we can come to 'believe' in them - if that makes any sense?  Belief being a poor word.... maybe accept is better?
 
the.dark.

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Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:41:18 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		now, back to my question... do you have any sensory perception of Jesus?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:41:25 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

i do understand the philosophy of christianity. i am also deeply faith based.


OK, so by that, then I am going to surmise that you understand the concept of the word, and that you are god and that god is beyond good and evil?
 
the.dark.

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RC&dc


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RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:42:49 AM   
sweetsub1957


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

thank you, sweetsub.

now, science says we have five senses to explore the world around us. have any of us seen Jesus? have any of us touched him, smelled him, tasted him, heard him? i would fathom most would say... no not personally... agreed?


No, I have personally not done any of the above, or seen him either.  There are others who would say they have, but that's not for me to say.

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RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:46:48 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

now, back to my question... do you have any sensory perception of Jesus?


From a christian standpoint, the answer would have to be yes.
 
the.dark.

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Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:47:09 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		thank you again, sweetsub... i have a feeling you know where i am going with this...

~grins

lets keep that out secret for the moment.

now.. for a recap.. based upon popular christian belief... and without saying any of this is correct... or incorrect... God is good... but he created evil... because he is God and he created everything... belief is Jesus is based upon faith and the word of bible and man... because none of us have been able to explore him with our five senses...

im not going to ask for an agreement on this... because i know this is just the beginning of this discussion... a disussion many of you think you know where it is headed... dont be so sure.

so, now, the science i promised

is there heat?

is there cold?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:52:34 AM   
sweetsub1957


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

My recollection from Sunday school many long years ago (and supported by several internet cites) is that it was merely a name change when Lucifer was cast out of heaven. But then who cares whether a work of historical fiction rewritten like a game of telephone can have different interpretations?


Actually, lucifer means light-bearing, from luc-, lux light + -fer -ferous.  It was always his name as he was supposed to be one the most beautiful of all the angels.  Then he got too big for his britches and tossed out of heaven for trying to start a rebellion.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

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Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:58:04 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

My recollection from Sunday school many long years ago (and supported by several internet cites) is that it was merely a name change when Lucifer was cast out of heaven. But then who cares whether a work of historical fiction rewritten like a game of telephone can have different interpretations?


Actually, lucifer means light-bearing, from luc-, lux light + -fer -ferous.  It was always his name as he was supposed to be one the most beautiful of all the angels.  Then he got too big for his britches and tossed out of heaven for trying to start a rebellion.


Again - that Satan and Lucifer are the same, is debatable.
 
the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 9:58:19 AM   
sweetsub1957


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

thank you again, sweetsub... i have a feeling you know where i am going with this...
~grins
I do, but I won't tell. 

lets keep that out secret for the moment.

now.. for a recap.. based upon popular christian belief... and without saying any of this is correct... or incorrect... God is good... but he created evil... because he is God and he created everything... belief in Jesus is based upon faith and the word of bible and man... because none of us have been able to explore him with our five senses...
Popular Christian belief would say yes.

im not going to ask for an agreement on this... because i know this is just the beginning of this discussion... a disussion many of you think you know where it is headed... dont be so sure.

so, now, the science i promised

is there heat?

is there cold?
Of course.


_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

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Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 10:01:22 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

now.. for a recap.. based upon popular christian belief... and without saying any of this is correct... or incorrect... God is good... but he created evil... because he is God and he created everything... belief is Jesus is based upon faith and the word of bible and man... because none of us have been able to explore him with our five senses...


And again, I disagree - I know you want people to follow you along these lines, but many christians do not believe that God is 'good'.  So without using basic christian belief or using the word, none of what you state is christian belief absolute.  It's a myth of a 'myth'... but beyond that, not much else.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 10:02:26 AM   
sweetsub1957


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Joined: 4/28/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

My recollection from Sunday school many long years ago (and supported by several internet cites) is that it was merely a name change when Lucifer was cast out of heaven. But then who cares whether a work of historical fiction rewritten like a game of telephone can have different interpretations?


Actually, lucifer means light-bearing, from luc-, lux light + -fer -ferous.  It was always his name as he was supposed to be one the most beautiful of all the angels.  Then he got too big for his britches and tossed out of heaven for trying to start a rebellion.


Again - that Satan and Lucifer are the same, is debatable.
 
the.dark.

I agree. I don't recall whether the Judeo-Christian bible even used the name "Satan."  Regardless it couldn't be proven whether or not they are the same.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

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Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Define God - 8/4/2009 10:03:52 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957
now.. for a recap.. based upon popular christian belief... and without saying any of this is correct... or incorrect... God is good... but he created evil... because he is God and he created everything... belief in Jesus is based upon faith and the word of bible and man... because none of us have been able to explore him with our five senses...
Popular Christian belief would say yes.



Are you a christian?  (Again, do not answer should you not wish to, although I believe you have answered here elsewhere - I just want to clarify for me).
 
the.dark.

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