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RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/5/2009 8:17:36 PM

faithfulraven

Posts: 6
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline

Thank you all for your words. I was going to respond to each one, but then I thought I would take up too much room and since most of the replies seem to support one another...

I will say that I cannot call him an ass or anything else derogatory. I wittingly engaged in exploring things with him. I think often we find ourselves spurred on by hope and love which doesn't always result in sound decision making.

Although I am sad to have left him, I feel more peaceful than I have in weeks. This in and of itself is my cue that I am doing the right thing, but it is always nice to be bolstered by one's peers, so again I appreciate all of the kind words.

I also know that sometimes people do change. Yes, there is still a glimmer of hope deep within me that he is going to wake up and realize what he has been doing. If that were to happen soon, great, if not that is ok too. As I told him, I am not responsible for his actions, only my own.

Once more, my sincerest thanks to each and every one of you.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 21

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/5/2009 10:47:09 PM

seababy

Posts: 845
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithfulraven

This is my first post. I have been talking to some "vanilla" friends of mine, but I was hoping to get some advice from folks in the lifestyle. I have been speaking to a Dom for 2 months, we have an amazing connection. I know it is easy to share things online, but it seems like we fit so well. Anyway, he has a gf. It is difficult only talking to him 9-5. He said he is waiting for his relationship to die a natural death. Just ewww and more than ewww, WTF?

Well, I can't do it. I was becoming increasingly emotional. On nights and weekends I would be so sad and during the day I would be happy. I mean, he even asked me if I was bi-polar and that was my reality check. So, I told him i couldn't do it. I deserve more and so does he. Actually I think his poor suckered in GF deserves better. He deserves a kick up the pants. I have told him that if he things end between he and his girlfriend, I will be here and to be honest, I will, but I can't condone his behavior.

Is this manipulation on my part?

Thank you very much for reading this and letting me share.

Girl you did the right thing ending it, now run for the hills in case he does become single.

(in reply to faithfulraven)

Post #: 22

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/6/2009 10:15:23 AM

lilgirl2008

Posts: 73
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline

faithfulraven, an important thing to remember, if he did this to his wife or girlfriend, he would do it to you as well. Once a cheater always a cheater. They do not change. So please don't hold unto the hope that he will change and still want you. The question you have to ask yourself..is why in the world would you still want him?

There are wonderful single Dominants out there. Who are emotionaly and physicaly available.

(in reply to faithfulraven)

Post #: 23

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/6/2009 10:25:26 AM

faithfulraven

Posts: 6
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline

I am not sure I ascribe to the thought that people can't change. If that were true, that would indicate we are incapable of learning and evolving. For instance, I am very stubborn, can be argumentative and have trouble giving myself. Does this mean I cannot change, that I can't learn to overcome these tendencies in myself?

Now, on the flip side, I do agree that folks who cheat generally seem to have a pattern of dishonest behavior in many facets of their life. And yes, most people appear to not want to change this in themselves, but not always.

The more days that I am separated from my own situation, and with the help of all the opinions expressed here, I do start to see things differently and it makes me grateful that I did what I did. In the beginning I was hopeful he might be the person I saw him to be, but now I realize that I saw only what I wanted to see.

Yet, in general, I can't give up hope on people... maybe just this specific one.

(in reply to lilgirl2008)

Post #: 24

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/6/2009 10:59:24 AM

lilgirl2008

Posts: 73
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline

I am speaking specificaly of people who cheat on their partners. If they are capable of lying and cheating, my experience has been that they will continue that pattern. Can people change? of course. But it didn't sound like he had great remorse for what he did. It sounded from what you told us that he wasn't very honest about the nature of his situation. I could be wrong, I am merely going by information given. The whole my wife doesn't understand me, I don't get sex at home, or she is vanilla and i need more is generally what I hear from married men. I was simply telling you that this is not a sign of a Dominant. Wouldn't a dominant man be honest with both you and his partner? Just things to think about.

I do wish you luck. It is a jungle out there. You seem like you are on a good path now.

(in reply to faithfulraven)

Post #: 25

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/6/2009 11:05:10 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithfulraven

This is my first post. I have been talking to some "vanilla" friends of mine, but I was hoping to get some advice from folks in the lifestyle. I have been speaking to a Dom for 2 months, we have an amazing connection. I know it is easy to share things online, but it seems like we fit so well. Anyway, he has a gf. It is difficult only talking to him 9-5. He said he is waiting for his relationship to die a natural death.

Well, I can't do it. I was becoming increasingly emotional. On nights and weekends I would be so sad and during the day I would be happy. I mean, he even asked me if I was bi-polar and that was my reality check. So, I told him i couldn't do it. I deserve more and so does he. I have told him that if he things end between he and his girlfriend, I will be here and to be honest, I will, but I can't condone his behavior.

Is this manipulation on my part?

Thank you very much for reading this and letting me share.

No. It's plain old common sense, and congratulations to you for showing some. I have days where I wonder if there is any left on the planet.

Dame Calla

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to faithfulraven)

Post #: 26

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/6/2009 3:45:34 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithfulraven

This is my first post. I have been talking to some "vanilla" friends of mine, but I was hoping to get some advice from folks in the lifestyle. I have been speaking to a Dom for 2 months, we have an amazing connection. I know it is easy to share things online, but it seems like we fit so well. Anyway, he has a gf. It is difficult only talking to him 9-5. He said he is waiting for his relationship to die a natural death.

Well, I can't do it. I was becoming increasingly emotional. On nights and weekends I would be so sad and during the day I would be happy. I mean, he even asked me if I was bi-polar and that was my reality check. So, I told him i couldn't do it. I deserve more and so does he. I have told him that if he things end between he and his girlfriend, I will be here and to be honest, I will, but I can't condone his behavior.

Is this manipulation on my part?

Thank you very much for reading this and letting me share.

In my opinion, it would take some real twisting to turn what you have said and done into manipulation. You displayed common sense and a sense of self-preservation as well as self-respect.

My second submissive was married but separated from her husband when we first got together. They were in the "throes" of hashing things out with the kids and her having to go to work and financial dispensation and blah, blah, blah. I understood and was patient all through the next two years. Then I moved her out here to live with me and progress the relationship along further. She was still married when I got her here but I thought this next step forward would help to push her towards making the final break. It did not...she was receiving a monthly stipend as the "separated" partner of a Canadian soldier, her kids still wanted "mommy and daddy" back together and if it wasn't for that "bitch" he was living with and "that bastard CD", they of course would've been. She could not...or would not...face up to her kids, to the giving up of her old life, to the giving up of the "free" money for me...what did that say about what I was worth to her? Add on top of that my own morality (I didn't like ongoing living with a "married" woman...yeah, I know....go figure) and my own image in a small town and I was done. I sent her home with the order to straighten things out one way or the other and let me know. She did...by letter...6 months later.

Was I manipulative? I don't think so. I was reclaiming my right to be a priority in the life of someone who claimed they wanted to be not just my romantic partner but my submissive. I was also reclaiming my right to be true to myself and my own thoughts and feelings regarding what I would accept and not accept.

(in reply to faithfulraven)

Post #: 27

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/6/2009 5:48:25 PM

badlilthang

Posts: 357
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Anyway, he has a gf. It is difficult only talking to him 9-5. He said he is waiting for his relationship to die a natural death.

First thought was this - he is manipulative. if he can not man him self up to make a clean break with a broken relationship - i guess that was a cover up for being married - and wanting You on the side.
Well, I can't do it. I was becoming increasingly emotional. On nights and weekends I would be so sad and during the day I would be happy. I mean, he even asked me if I was bi-polar and that was my reality check. So, I told him i couldn't do it. Is this manipulation on my part?
NO..simply honestly telling him and showing him this is not for you. If he can't end one relationship before he falls into another - how important were you?
chances are he will go to the next - and use the former/ongoing relationship as an excuse..."since it is already dieing"...Kudoes for you walking away...but do not tell him you are waiting - he might do the same thing he is doing for the other woman - to you. Let him go all together.
Thank you very much for reading this and letting me share.

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithfulraven

_____________________________

.Forgiveness is the fragrance a flower leaves in the air after being crushed underfoot.

(in reply to faithfulraven)

Post #: 28

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/6/2009 6:16:11 PM

LillyoftheVally

Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline

Raven, I am going to be very personal now because well I totally relate to you.

I have just got out of a relationship I was with this guy who told me how intoxicating I was, how much he loved me for coming up to a year. He was with a woman who initially he made out he was barely in a relationship with. Like you I came to the boards asked advice ignored it and practically vanished. Oh the plans we had I was going to move to be near him, he didnt love her not in the way he loved me (bollocks) he was only with her because of his daughter but trust him he would leave eventually, it was hard I just had to give him time and not push him. Oh I was far too demanding for him, I argued too much, he questioned what I felt, checked up on me, was convinced I was cheating. He didnt want me talking to friends I mean I wouldnt need them because I had him. He was going to leave but stuff got in the way, work was hard.

A few weeks ago she chucked him out, he came to me but begged her to take him back. I know this because I spoke to her on the phone, she was hurt of course especially because I knew about her which makes me awful. She told me what he was telling her, he had told her some stuff from my past that I used to self harm and attempted suicide he was only with me because he felt sorry for me apparantly.

The truth was that he was a man out for whatever he could get, I fell for it all because I didnt think myself worth much, that is something I am just realising, I have spent years saying i deserve better but always going for whatever I am given then hating myself for not being satisfied with it, blaming myself for the fact that I mess up relationships. You know it is my fault but not for the reasons that I believe, it is not that I am actually worth nothing it is that if I believe it, even a little bit, then everyone else will too. I have decided that I wont be a victim any more, that never again will I say I dont deserve this because I wont allow myself to get into those situations ever again.

Raven, please don't carry this on, you dont need to get to the painful stage to convince yourself that you are better. Please just see it now fuck him and look after you because you DO deserve better.

This was written without reading anyone else advice and I am sorry if it was too self absorbed, it is just because you sound so much like I was.

Good luck

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to faithfulraven)

Post #: 29

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/6/2009 6:16:53 PM

complicata

Posts: 1
Joined: 8/6/2009
Status: offline

I would let it go if i was you. Dont get mixed up with someone who has a g/f. Waiting for it to die just sounds like an excuse to me for 'i want some fun but dont want to let her go either'. Dont count on the amazing connection... it may seem real enough but trust me it takes more than that to see it through to a good real time relationship

< Message edited by complicata -- 8/6/2009 6:17:42 PM >

(in reply to faithfulraven)

Post #: 30

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/6/2009 6:19:13 PM

XYisInferior

Posts: 166
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithfulraven

This is my first post. I have been talking to some "vanilla" friends of mine, but I was hoping to get some advice from folks in the lifestyle. I have been speaking to a Dom for 2 months, we have an amazing connection. I know it is easy to share things online, but it seems like we fit so well. Anyway, he has a gf. It is difficult only talking to him 9-5. He said he is waiting for his relationship to die a natural death.

Well, I can't do it. I was becoming increasingly emotional. On nights and weekends I would be so sad and during the day I would be happy. I mean, he even asked me if I was bi-polar and that was my reality check. So, I told him i couldn't do it. I deserve more and so does he. I have told him that if he things end between he and his girlfriend, I will be here and to be honest, I will, but I can't condone his behavior.

Is this manipulation on my part?

Thank you very much for reading this and letting me share.

Being honest about your feelings isn't manipulation. Being dishonest about them inevitably starts you down that road, however.

_____________________________

S a h a r a h E v e . c o m

Do your own homework. Write your own stuff.

(in reply to faithfulraven)

Post #: 31

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/6/2009 10:16:10 PM

maturesub42

Posts: 9
Joined: 1/22/2009
Status: offline

If you are manipulative, he is as well. Besides he is a cheater. You've got your own limits... Cards are in your hands. Good luck. Not an easy choice.

(in reply to Joseff)

Post #: 32

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/6/2009 10:42:12 PM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I am not sure I ascribe to the thought that people can't change

Well, guess what, Raven, I am. People do change, but they change for their own selfish reasons, not to benefit you. It is not useful to ascribe lofty but vague moral aims to people you do not know, like this guy. You're deluding yourself.

All I am saying is that whether or not people can change is completely irrelevant to your "case". What is important is for you to effect your own happiness, and perhaps you should simply ask yourself why you were involved with someone who admittedly is not available to you, rather than someone who is. Where you need to be is in the driver's seat, and make your life independent of "hope on people". A successful relationship would be with a person you can take just as they are, and who takes you as you are. No need for change. "Hope" and "Change" are not magical pills that make life better. Only you can.

(in reply to faithfulraven)

Post #: 33

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/6/2009 11:34:03 PM

faithfulraven

Posts: 6
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline

I do get a bit lofty in my ideology, thank you for your pragmatism.

(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 34

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/6/2009 11:35:09 PM

faithfulraven

Posts: 6
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline

Again, thank you all for your input and also sharing your own stories. I have decided not to make myself available to him either, no waiting around.

(in reply to faithfulraven)

Post #: 35

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/7/2009 3:30:11 AM

SmokeSerpent

Posts: 41
Joined: 2/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseff

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Don't make someone your Priority while you forever remain their option.

Steel

Steel, that's brilliant, mind if I steal it?

"Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option." - Mark Twain

(in reply to Joseff)

Post #: 36

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/7/2009 10:01:27 AM

Acer49

Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithfulraven

This is my first post. I have been talking to some "vanilla" friends of mine, but I was hoping to get some advice from folks in the lifestyle. I have been speaking to a Dom for 2 months, we have an amazing connection. I know it is easy to share things online, but it seems like we fit so well. Anyway, he has a gf. It is difficult only talking to him 9-5. He said he is waiting for his relationship to die a natural death.

Well, I can't do it. I was becoming increasingly emotional. On nights and weekends I would be so sad and during the day I would be happy. I mean, he even asked me if I was bi-polar and that was my reality check. So, I told him i couldn't do it. I deserve more and so does he. I have told him that if he things end between he and his girlfriend, I will be here and to be honest, I will, but I can't condone his behavior.

Is this manipulation on my part?

Thank you very much for reading this and letting me share.

Die a natural death? tell him to grow a set along with finding his backbone and end it

(in reply to faithfulraven)

Post #: 37

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/7/2009 10:08:55 AM

daintydimples

Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline

I so agree with this, DemonKia:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

As you've presented it, no. It sounds like you're exploring yourself & your boundaries, & you've discovered a boundary for you. Boundaries are healthy, in my book; it's possible to have too many, but I don't get any of that from what you've stated . . . . . .

For me, whether it's BDSM or vanilla, having some significant other in the background of someone I'm exploring intimate partnership of whatever sort, especially an s.o. I've never met & am not going to get to meet (& ascertain for myself that this s.o. is okay with what's going on) is a 'red flag' & / or a hard limit . . ..

I expect, from both BDSM & vanilla intimate relationships, a rather intense level of honesty & full disclosure; others' mileage may vary, but I need to know what's going on, I don't do well with secrets & hidden stuff, & those kinda things are serious trust-busters in my little corner of the universe . . . . . . . Not to mention that I focus a lot of energy & time & emotion on my intimate partnerships & want & expect similar back; the other becomes a major focus for me, & I prefer to be a major focus of theirs, too . . . . . .

The question that always seems key to me is: Is this what you want? Are you 'settling' for less than what you'd prefer? Would you seek out, or tolerate, this in your 'vanilla' dating life?

Also, I agree with what Steele said.

I've said this before: liars lie and cheaters cheat. He lying to his wife, g/f , s/o (whatever she is), and cheating on her with you. Of course you should end it. Not being willing to tolerate cheating and lying is not manipulation, this is establishing a normal, healthy relationship boundary.

He is the one I find manipulative. He's lying, cheating, and then asking YOU if you are bi-polar b/c you are having issues dealing with all that????

My opinion is end it and don't go back, it won't get better.

_____________________________

Some soften by the forced reflection that comes from loss; others harden. Which are you?

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 38

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/7/2009 10:13:22 AM

XYisInferior

Posts: 166
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I think you are better off without him, also the best advice I ever heard given to a sub....

Don't make someone your Priority while you forever remain their option.

Steel

Unfortunately that quoted wisdom flies in the face of the entire dynamic for many submissive and slaves, who openly recognize and embrace the fact they are options and the ones they serve are their only priorities.

_____________________________

S a h a r a h E v e . c o m

Do your own homework. Write your own stuff.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 39

RE: Am I being manipulative? - 8/7/2009 10:22:11 AM

faithfulraven

Posts: 6
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline

I have been wondering, however, in reading some other threads on this board... now, aside from the debate of whether you can submit to someone online/phone, if you offer yourself, do you have a right to take it back? I mean, can a sub ever really reclaim themselves? Maybe this is a question for another thread, but it does make me wonder.

(in reply to XYisInferior)

Post #: 40

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