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RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/6/2009 2:03:29 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Aldompdx, I believe that you are allowing your intellect to get in the way of your ability to learn from the material world.

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RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/6/2009 2:46:08 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

I'm curious to hear opinions/experiences/philosophies about efforts to keep a D/s dynamic active during a submissive's time out in the work world away from his/her dominant.



She serves me by adhering to the contract she signs when she walks into a job - I'd be pretty pissed off with her if she didn't. As I haven't signed a contract with that business then I'm not party to the agreement. There's no triple alliance here as the business has made no concessions to me and vice versa. So as soon as she walks into the business she adheres to another rule of law- which I suppose is why some people don't like their women working.

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RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/6/2009 5:31:22 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		Having thought about this my only thoughts are probably echoing what some others have expressed here.

My own view is that I would probably not do much more than to 'be my best' and to keep to the same standards that I do in my life anyway but which are the same standards which my dominant would find attractive and which brought me into the relationship anyway.

But then again my own personal concept of serving and submission goes way beyond what is understood to be 'submission' and 'service' in a D/s sense per se, but is an integral part of my life. When I write I serve and submit to my ideas (and do so up until the point I find my ideas either invalid or unsuitable), in workshops I serve the participants, in rehearsals I serve my actors and the work we do together serves an audience.

In some way service and submission is something everybody does in their lives. I have often expressed the opinion that a submissive first and foremost should learn to serve themselves before seeking to serve or submit to someone else for in their own way this is what dominants do and is a necessary component of any dynamic.

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RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/6/2009 5:33:24 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Considering that My sub is getting shot at in his 'line of work' I tend to command him to pay attention.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/6/2009 6:32:08 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

You allow your partner to temporarily become the agent of another principal, and thus you surrender authority for that time.

Yeah, her boss thought that once too. Not to worry, in situations where two people both believe they are in control, the simple litmus test is to see what happens when they give conflicting commands. I always love easily testable questions.

Why do you think that there can only be one layer of authority at a time? Surely you've seen plenty of examples of multi-layered, hierachical management structures.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to aldompdx)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/6/2009 7:20:53 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		Mostly, over the years, my work life and bdsm life have been separate. A few times that has been breached, and at one time I was the close friend of a professional dominant who LOVED to mess with me, so she would call me at work and then realize I couldn't say certain things because I was in the office, and she would just pretty much have the time of her life as she would hold some of the sexiest conversations with me I've ever had, knowing I was doing everything possible to answer her without arousing suspicions during my own arousal-like behavior.

Another time, I was owned by a woman who used to email me little instrucctions, mainly because I was working at a job where I was surrounded by female attorneys who used to give me a lot of instructions, and that kind of bothered her (she realized how much I LOVED that job).

Other than those circumstances, never really had much more than that going on while at work.


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(in reply to sravaka)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/6/2009 7:27:09 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

What you explain tends to highlight the difference between direct and proximate causation -- the extent of foreseeability. That is, how far removed can you perceive the extent of duty.

Your partner purchasing food is acting as your agent. Thus, the seller of food has a duty to you -- the principal. By definition, your partner as an employee is acting as the agent of their employer/principal, not you. As an independent third party, you have no authority over the employer/principal, and they owe no duty to you. You allow your partner to temporarily become the agent of another principal, and thus you surrender authority for that time.


Wow, I perceive this completely differently. As I see it, going back to the food example, my servant is acting as my agent in shopping, but the seller has only the responsibility of hir own sphere -- none to me, only to the store/products and hir own reputation. Frankly, the seller doesn't likely know me, nor give a rat's ass (forgive my vernacular) about my preferences or the quality of what xhe provides me. My servant, on the other hand, is required to seek out the finest offerings available for the resources with which xhe is provided, and to avoid those things which we would not find pleasing or useful. Likewise, in work, my servant is my agent in procuring resources for the household. Hir boss is also an agent, but hir client is the company, like the seller's is the store or product-source (chain vs. independent). My servant -knows- my standards and knows what is required of hir in order to sustain our resources. Hir boss couldn't care less. The key, when one is in a relationship where the D/s extends this far (in our household this probably would -only- be a part of a relationship that was a comprehensive-authority dynamic) is recognizing, as the Keeper, when a given working situation has moved from being a -resource- for the household to being a -drain- on its resources. For our household, if we had a servant in that position, I would have no qualms whatsoever about ending my servant's employment, and a servant within that position in our family would, without question, tender hir resignation forthwith.

That being said, yes, this is an intense way to live, to be in a dynamic of that scope, and I know this idea panics some folks, but responsibility when dealing with the workplace extends in other directions too., if I happened to have a servant whose livelihood depended on maintaining activity in hir field, that, too, would be -my- responsibility to attend to... as well as if my servant was emotionally attached to a certain area of endeavor-- I learned from some amazing folks, in a trial by fire, that it is crucial to understand what can be removed without taking the essence of the person with it, and what could never be given up without pulling the existence of the servant into the abyss with it. I also understand it intimately, because my writing is that to me.

Whether I have control over my servant's boss or not is irrelevant to the discussion of my expectations for my servant. If I have a servant who works at home, I -still- won't be with that person 24/7 while xhe's doing hir chores and attending to errands, etc... because I will be at work myself, by choice if not by necessity (since I am too wound-up to ever consider retiring, at least never from writing). My servant will interact all day with people and decisions over which I have no immediate control, and I will expect from hir that xhe do the thing that makes the most sense, with hir priority being the health of our family. If xhe is at work, hir boss and co-workers are out of my control, yes, but no different than any other of the multitudinous decisions xhe'll make in a day--and if xhe makes the choice that puts the health and prosperity of our household as hir priority, then its a fair bet that xhe won't have any problems at work -or- in other situations... and if xhe did, and letting things work themselves out there meant draining our household beyond what I felt was reasonable... xhe wouldn't work there any more.

Hope this ramble made sense,

Dame Calla



< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 8/6/2009 7:38:54 PM >

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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to aldompdx)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/6/2009 7:38:50 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		At the rate I am going at I will have to get a second place of residence. Or go to their house. One or the other.

I would like to start a business with my partner so that way I would not be separate from them aside from the first job. Spending time together plus making some bacon and doing another thing I love!

YEAH! BRING IT ON!!

"Why is there a flogger in the break room?"

"It is for breaking spirits... Mistress is a harsh taskmistress. Why do you think they call it a break room?"


If I am going to be busy why not be busy for that special Woman in my life?



(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/6/2009 10:57:37 PM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		leadership527: one layer of authority at a time?
I agree with you, that authority can be layered -- i.e., more than one. The question is whether you have created the layers of authority, and whether you accept them. The first layer is U.S. and California law, which governs your partner's employer-employee relations. How do you imagine that your authority supercedes that of the governments? Another layer would be for you to form your own corporation, become the employer of your partner, and contract out for service performed. So long as you instruct your partner to act in a manner which causes her to breach her duty to her third-party employer, she alone is legally liable to the employer for the breach and she probably loses the job.

CallaFirestormBW:
Perhaps you would see the issue more clearly if you went to Harris County Law Library and read Restatement of the Law, Second: Agency; American Law Institute. How you see the employer-employee relationship is irrelevant, since you freely choose to live in a country which has a well established body of law which tightly controls the matter. When you purchase food at your local store, the transaction is governed by the Texas Commercial Code. If your partner is acting as a legal agent for you, then the seller's duties under the TCC extend to you.

Whether or not you all want to believe it, your choice to live in the U.S.A. is a choice to surrender to its laws -- which constitute the foundational code of conduct with which you consent to comply. Only an arrogant American fool imagines that they are above the rule of law. Yet, that is what so many assert here and on other BDSM web sites (just like Bush-Cheney). As RedMagic1 said above about reality, "learn from the material world," of which law is a big part.

(in reply to pyroaquatic)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/7/2009 3:08:51 AM   
VanIsleKnight


Posts: 283
Joined: 8/4/2009
Status: offline 		Reading through most of the responses, I have to say that I am not going to be able to look at work the same way again.  Having been surrounded by so much negativity towards employers, working conditions, and even work itself, it's refreshing to have these points of view and mindsets.  At the very least, it makes me feel mildly better about staying behind and doing extra cleaning or something similar while others leave early.

As far as the discussion goes, I wouldn't mind a tease now and then while at work.  A little joy like that can potentially reverse an otherwise terrible day at work and relieve a fair amount of stress.  The benefits of such would be obvious, and I'm secure enough in my professionalism that I'd not let something like that interfere with my job performance.


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/7/2009 4:37:56 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka


Submissives-- are you required to do anything (rituals, wearing something, whatever) in the course of your workday intended to keep you focused on your Dominant, and if so what? How do you feel about it? Has it ever given rise to conflicts and how do you handle them?




Nope. Also (and I mean this in the nicest way) I wouldn't want to be focussed on my dominant throughout the work day I would have to focus on my job. I don't think you need anything physical to still love someone, to be honest greedy said that best on the first page

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Nah I am not happy to see you either

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/7/2009 4:41:37 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

even being required to donate money to the political campaings of politicians who act against their interests and who they do not want to support


I don't know where you got this idea, but it's illegal in the U.S.

(in reply to aldompdx)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/7/2009 5:03:38 AM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

I'm curious to hear opinions/experiences/philosophies about efforts to keep a D/s dynamic active during a submissive's time out in the work world away from his/her dominant.

Submissives-- are you required to do anything (rituals, wearing something, whatever) in the course of your workday intended to keep you focused on your Dominant, and if so what?  How do you feel about it?  Has it ever given rise to conflicts and how do you handle them?

Dominants-- do you require any such things of your submissive?  Is it something you do routinely or intermittently?  How do you resolve possible conflicts? 

More generally, where do you (doms, subs, anyone) locate the most comfortable or effective balance between relationship-focus and work-focus? 

Thanks in advance for any/all responses.




The only thing I required from my sub was that she give an honest day's work for the pay she received

(in reply to sravaka)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/7/2009 5:52:30 AM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline 		When I was first getting to know my former master and we were remote he gave me fun, erotic, and entirely safe (although they did not feel that way to me at the time, but I am extremely reserved) "tasks" to perform, like masturbating in a stall in the ladies room. He'd also call me and regale me with "things" knowing I couldn't speak openly because I was surrounded by people. My red cheeks spoke volumes, I thought. Sometimes he'd have me do something extremely simple, like rub my back agaisnt a wall while I spoke to him at a public payphone in a crowded hall, that made me extremely self-conscious but, in retrospect, I doubt if anyone passing by ever noticed. He knew dozens of things like that he could do that would remind me of who was really the boss but not endanger my work situation at all.

When he brought me to live with him he arranged for me to do contract work, from the home and I did that quite successfully for years. In those situations there is more freedom than in a formal employer-employee situation. I was responsible for producing a product on time, and as long as I delivered it when I contracted I would, the client didn't care how I spent my hours running what they thought was "my" business. He incorporated us, and made himself president/ceo of course, the company name was subtly kinky. He coached me both in general business survival skills and in the specific skills needed to do the job, he selected the contracts I took and he assisted me when with dealing with sticky situations when they arose: he basically told me how to handle them. He also organized my time and made sure I put the hours in necessary to meet the deadlines...and also didn't work when he didn't want me to. It worked very well. I always felt as though he was my employer, not the clients, and I was capable of doing things and taking on challenges that I would never have considered attempting on my own. He had certain skills, a background, and a perspective that made this a success, I think.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/7/2009 7:35:45 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

I'm curious to hear opinions/experiences/philosophies about efforts to keep a D/s dynamic active during a submissive's time out in the work world away from his/her dominant.

Submissives-- are you required to do anything (rituals, wearing something, whatever) in the course of your workday intended to keep you focused on your Dominant, and if so what?  How do you feel about it?  Has it ever given rise to conflicts and how do you handle them?

Dominants-- do you require any such things of your submissive?  Is it something you do routinely or intermittently?  How do you resolve possible conflicts?
No, I've never required such things from my submissive.  In the past, when I wanted to call my submissives at work I did two things...I asked whether or not the employer had a problem with her receiving calls and what times of the day were best to call her.  
I like a submissive who pursues her own career, partially because I am of the bent that if we are going to enter into a life together, that life includes things that both of us want to have but neither of us can afford alone.  I am also of the bent that something to which she contributes something more than herself is something she will fight a bit harder to keep.  Finally...except for a few rare people like beth...I've known very few women, submissive women included, who were content to make their "man" their sole focus.  They become bored and yearn for time away from the house and require more of my presence than I, admittedly perhaps selfishly, am willing to give.  I know there are some who say "make do with the dominant's income only" and if that works for them, great.  It does not for me and for the submissives I have dealt with. 
Since I like them to work, I want them to be good at what they do.  I expect them to treat their employer with respect...he/she is the one providing the job and the compensation that goes along with doing the job properly.  If I am not on her mind at some point during the day, then the problem is one that...as someone else noted...has little to do with ritual but more to do with either the inability to handle thoughts of work and me at the same time on occasion OR with the bigger problem of wanting...and being able...to put me out of her mind.  That is a problem that is on ME and on her.
I'll keep the rituals and protocols for the home setting or, in non-overt ways, when we are out in public.  At work?  Her boss sets her workday ritual, not me.  When I had employees...and when I have one again someday...I will set their ritual and expect compliance for the salary I pay. 

quote:

More generally, where do you (doms, subs, anyone) locate the most comfortable or effective balance between relationship-focus and work-focus? 

Thanks in advance for any/all responses.

I spoke about the above recently in another thread.  I expect the submissive to be able to set aside her work on her way home from work...to walk in the door focused on me and on our dynamic.  Life being life, there may be times when that is not easily done and at that point, as her responsible partner and her dominant, it is my job to help her get past what the work day has wrought and direct her focus to us. 

(in reply to sravaka)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/7/2009 2:23:00 PM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		hardbodysub:
The Service Employees International Union is under investigation for coercing local workers into funding the parent union's national political priorities. (Wall St. Jnl., 7/28/08). Although the practice is technically unlawful, there remain "Agency Shops" which require contributions to a union. Even if a contribution is escrowed for collective bargaining, the contribution effectively frees other monies for support of political or ideological preferences. See, Locke v. Karass, 129 S. Ct. 798; 172 L. Ed. 2d 552; 2009 U.S. LEXIS 590 (2009); Davenport v. Wash. Educ. Ass'n, 551 U.S. 177, 127 S. Ct. 2372, 168 L. Ed. 2d 71 (2007).

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/7/2009 4:43:45 PM   
Scotty306134


Posts: 172
Joined: 5/16/2004
Status: offline 		Unions are always collecting dues and contributing to politictions the union wants, not neccessarily who the dues payer wants.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/7/2009 5:38:14 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

aldompdx said:
So long as you instruct your partner to act in a manner which causes her to breach her duty to her third-party employer, she alone is legally liable to the employer for the breach and she probably loses the job.


Ahhh, now I see where you are confused. I would not instruct my partner to breach anything. I would simply have her resign. I don't need any laws or government to enable that action and, given 2 weeks notice, it is perfectly ethical and reasonable.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to aldompdx)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/7/2009 7:08:06 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

hardbodysub:
The Service Employees International Union is under investigation for coercing local workers into funding the parent union's national political priorities. (Wall St. Jnl., 7/28/08). Although the practice is technically unlawful, there remain "Agency Shops" which require contributions to a union. Even if a contribution is escrowed for collective bargaining, the contribution effectively frees other monies for support of political or ideological preferences. See, Locke v. Karass, 129 S. Ct. 798; 172 L. Ed. 2d 552; 2009 U.S. LEXIS 590 (2009); Davenport v. Wash. Educ. Ass'n, 551 U.S. 177, 127 S. Ct. 2372, 168 L. Ed. 2d 71 (2007).

quote:

political campaings of politicians


Irrelevant. A union shop is not equivalent to "being required to donate money to the political campaings of politicians". That is illegal, no matter how you parse it. Period.

(in reply to aldompdx)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: d/s in and around one's worklife - 8/7/2009 7:53:04 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

Submissives-- are you required to do anything (rituals, wearing something, whatever) in the course of your workday intended to keep you focused on your Dominant, and if so what?  How do you feel about it?  Has it ever given rise to conflicts and how do you handle them?...


My job is Firm and whatever he needs or wants to make him happy.  There are no conflicts because he is literally my boss... as well as my dominant.  The ritual is that he tells me what he wants and I do it.  Simple enough.

And it delights me to no end. 

(in reply to sravaka)
Profile   Post #: 40
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