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RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 4:16:05 PM   
Loki45


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Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

My apologies Loki, You are correct that you were no the first to mention the UK laws. You can see where Starbuck and I are comming from though, UK laws work fairly well all things considered.

The problem you have with a gun ban in the US, is that people outside of the Cities would always need a gun. This is from protection from both animals and criminals. Im not sure a ban could ever be properly enforced in such a large nation.


I don't think it could either. Nor should it. I agree that we should mandate training for anyone who wants to own one. We should do damned near anything to ensure that those who own one are responsible and non-psycho. But banning is not the answer. I would gladly take a few more 'mandatory' classes to own a firearm. It wouldn't bother me a bit. In fact, I'll probably be taking some of those classes on my own anyway, just because I can.

I don't, for example, think people need machine guns, flame throwers, etc. There are, however, events you can go to where you can fire such weapons just 'for the experience,' and those are pretty-well regulated. You have to have (from what I understand) a special hard as hell to get permit to have an automatic weapon legally and they are definitely tracked. The average person, though, doesn't need one in my opinion. I'd say hunting rifles, pistols, and shotguns are perfectly acceptable *if* the owner isn't an idiot or a psycho. And those are the areas we need to work on.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 221
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 4:18:28 PM   
Starbuck09


Posts: 724
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		Who the fuck do you think you are speaking to little man how dare you lecture me on my assumptions. My experience with firearms is extensive and the reason that I hold the views I do. I don't fear guns you complete tit I respect their awesome power as I have been trained to do and due to my experiences I of the firm opinion that most civilians have no right to have such weapons whatsoever they are neither responsible enough nor do they have the required training to use let alone maintain such a weapon disgraceful amount of people that kill themselves and others in accidents that someone with training would not have commited.
The point i was amking about the drive bys is that they use guns not stones as they are far far more deadly. Keep a civil tounge in your head when you address me in future Loki your attitude has benn by turns ignorant, condescending and childish and I am not prepared to takes this nonsense from you.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 222
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 4:22:53 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

Who the fuck do you think you are speaking to little man how dare you lecture me on my assumptions. My experience with firearms is extensive and the reason that I hold the views I do. I don't fear guns you complete tit I respect their awesome power as I have been trained to do and due to my experiences I of the firm opinion that most civilians have no right to have such weapons whatsoever they are neither responsible enough nor do they have the required training to use let alone maintain such a weapon disgraceful amount of people that kill themselves and others in accidents that someone with training would not have commited.
The point i was amking about the drive bys is that they use guns not stones as they are far far more deadly. Keep a civil tounge in your head when you address me in future Loki your attitude has benn by turns ignorant, condescending and childish and I am not prepared to takes this nonsense from you.


LoL. You call me "little man" in the midst of a reply that looks like an immature child wrote it. Nice one.

Apparently your training never included speaking like a grown-up.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to Starbuck09)
Profile   Post #: 223
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 4:28:36 PM   
Starbuck09


Posts: 724
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		I called you little man after you have behaved like one your replies have been often childish, petulant, abrasive, and ignorant. Dont start bleating when you are put right after your outrageous and entirely misinformed ideas of the sort of person that i am. I'll give you another tip Loki putting smilies on the end of your sentnences to show how funny you find all this makes you seem like a complete bellend. Conduct yourself like an adult and i shall treat you like one.

(in reply to Loki45)
Profile   Post #: 224
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 4:38:08 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

I called you little man after you have behaved like one your replies have been often childish, petulant, abrasive, and ignorant. Dont start bleating when you are put right after your outrageous and entirely misinformed ideas of the sort of person that i am. I'll give you another tip Loki putting smilies on the end of your sentnences to show how funny you find all this makes you seem like a complete bellend. Conduct yourself like an adult and i shall treat you like one.


The problem, is that you didn't 'put me right.' You got mad and reacted like a child. If I make wrong assumptions based on your posts, fine. But to react the way you did with the name calling and the tantrum throwing makes your side very weak and nullifies your argument. If you can't maintain your composure, you've already lost the debate.

Think of it like this: Suppose you're watching two candidates debate on TV and one suddenly says "Fuck you, little man, your ideas are shit and you have no business being prime minister!" How do you think the public would react to that outburst?

Also, this is a message board. The smileys are there to be used. Usage of such things does not inherently equate with childish antics (lest they would not be found on an adults-only message board).

< Message edited by Loki45 -- 8/17/2009 4:39:17 PM >

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to Starbuck09)
Profile   Post #: 225
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 4:47:09 PM   
Starbuck09


Posts: 724
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		Not in the slightest Loki you made outrageous claims showed extreme ignorance and bad manners that has been indicative of your posts on this and i put you in your place. Who do you think you are to address me in such a fashion.  I have maintained my composure throughout this debate loki wheras you have not culminating in your ludicrous personal critique of my life.
Think of it like this if you watched two candidates and one continually took silly snipes and made sarcastic childish comments to the other culminating in a completely foundless personal attack who do you think comes out of it better? You needed a reminder that you are speaking to a man not a boy and you got it don't start squealing because you got called out on the tone of your posts towards me. Remember we are not in a televised debate we are on a public forum and if you speak to me in such disgraceful terms you can expect to be humbled.
Yes this a message board and smilies are optional. The use of them in an argument to try and denote your hilarity at the situation is in my opinion ridiculous. If you feel differently feel free to denote your feeling with a gree sickly face to show me just how serious you are.

(in reply to Loki45)
Profile   Post #: 226
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 4:49:42 PM   
Starbuck09


Posts: 724
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		Having said that I apologise for swearing at you it was unbecoming. Rather then derail the debate I am willing to draw a line under this if you are Loki.

(in reply to Starbuck09)
Profile   Post #: 227
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 4:56:26 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

Not in the slightest Loki you made outrageous claims showed extreme ignorance and bad manners that has been indicative of your posts on this and i put you in your place. Who do you think you are to address me in such a fashion.  I have maintained my composure throughout this debate loki wheras you have not culminating in your ludicrous personal critique of my life.
Think of it like this if you watched two candidates and one continually took silly snipes and made sarcastic childish comments to the other culminating in a completely foundless personal attack who do you think comes out of it better? You needed a reminder that you are speaking to a man not a boy and you got it don't start squealing because you got called out on the tone of your posts towards me. Remember we are not in a televised debate we are on a public forum and if you speak to me in such disgraceful terms you can expect to be humbled.
Yes this a message board and smilies are optional. The use of them in an argument to try and denote your hilarity at the situation is in my opinion ridiculous. If you feel differently feel free to denote your feeling with a gree sickly face to show me just how serious you are.


You can rationalize it however you like. The undeniable fact is you got pissed off and reacted immaturely. How did I react when you said I was in the Army? I could just as easily have said "fuck you, I wasn't Army, you have no clue what you're talking about!" But I didn't. I simply informed you that you had the wrong service.

And let's be honest here, I've done nothing in this thread that others haven't done. We're all made sarcastic statements or taken a snipe or two.

Case in point: the so-called "expatriate" (not my word, or course) who likes to use french to make her lil 'snipes' as you call them so that those reading won't know what she's saying. (She claimed in a thread long ago that it was just how she spoke so she posts like she speaks, however I would suggest that anyone who is having a conversation in english and suddenly makes a quip in french knowing that her counterpart doesn't speak french is doing so for a reason other than it being 'just how they talk').

Despite all that, did I violently react to her doing that? Nope. I simply, cordially responded in kind with my own comment.

We cannot control how people speak to us. We can only control how we respond. You cannot control what I've said. You can only choose to let it anger you and subsequently how you respond to me.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to Starbuck09)
Profile   Post #: 228
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 5:02:02 PM   
Starbuck09


Posts: 724
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		Your comparisons are in no way related. Youhave consistently got frustrated with me loki and have been both sarcastic and petulant. When I said about you being in the army you had already said you were in the military. I just used army as shorthand when I said as you were in the army you must know this. I could have used military or foces but I didn't. Comparing that to your absurd post listing my experiences and feelings is ridiculous as I am sure you know Loki.
Yes plenty of people have made silly snipey comments and I have scarcely raised my hackles to you Loki until you behaved in an incredibly insulting way, i can't control how you speak to me but if you choose to address yourself to me in such derogatory fashion then expect a very sharp rebuke.

(in reply to Loki45)
Profile   Post #: 229
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 5:02:29 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

Having said that I apologise for swearing at you it was unbecoming. Rather then derail the debate I am willing to draw a line under this if you are Loki.


Fine by me. Though I do suggest you acknowledge one truth to yourself if you continue to debate online. It matters not what I think of you. To you, I am an anonymous person on the internet. As you are to me. You can sit there and call my mother a whore if you like. It won't change my demeanor one way or the other.

We are who we are, whether in person or online. You can't let what someone says online anger you so much. At the end of this debate, who am I to you? No one. I'm electronic signals interpreted by your computer screen. I'm one's and zero's traveling through cables to display information. That's it. It doesn't matter what coclusions I draw from your posts about you. It only matters what you know about you. You're the only one you have to answer to. Same as I am the only one who I have to answer to.

I have let out various pieces of information on myself here. But I am very guarded in what I let out, because frankly 'anonymous people on the net' just don't need to know all about me. People can and will draw whatever conclusions they like about me. I can't change their minds anymore than I can make their minds up for them. Someone here once called me a flat-out liar because of the experiences I related having. That's fine. They can do that if they like. I know the truth and that's all that matters to me. If they don't want to believe me, I really don't care. My worth as an individual is not contingent on them believing me nor how they view me.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to Starbuck09)
Profile   Post #: 230
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 5:06:37 PM   
Starbuck09


Posts: 724
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		 I don't see you as anonymous though loki I see you as someone I have invested time and effort in because I wanted to debate with you and think you are worth debating with. If you turn out to not be who you say you are it is no skin of my nose, but anger in cases like this for me is justified because it is supplied in the same medium as what I am angry at. Just as I would react in a converstion face to face. I attempt as much as possible to conduct myself online as I do in everyday life and if that means a little anger every now and then so be it. But that's by the by now it was a heated moment and it's over.

(in reply to Loki45)
Profile   Post #: 231
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 5:06:53 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09
Youhave consistently got frustrated with me loki and have been both sarcastic and petulant.


I am a sarcastic asshole. I make no denial of such things, in fact I embrace it. But don't confuse sarcasm with frustration. You know those smileys you hate so much? I use those to show that I am not frustrated. I don't get frustrated by people on the net anymore. When I'm being a sarcastic ass, it's not because I'm frustrated, it's because that's how I am and because I find it amusing.....to me. I am a constant joker, whether sarcastic or not. It's my way of walking through this fucked up mess called life. When the jokes stop, you have only the reality left. And you can watch the news any night of the week to see enough of the 'reality' of this world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09
i can't control how you speak to me but if you choose to address yourself to me in such derogatory fashion then expect a very sharp rebuke.


This is, of course, your choice. As I said, you can only choose how you respond. However, my choice in what to say is not contingent on the way in which you 'might' respond. I say what is on my mind and I word it how I choose. What you do with that is up to you. You can let it bother you and fire off insults or you can be cordial and take a shot or two back. It's your call.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to Starbuck09)
Profile   Post #: 232
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 5:17:03 PM   
Starbuck09


Posts: 724
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		No worries loki i'm off to bed now though so till tommorow mate. Look i'm not such a fool that I don't understand the passions this debate arouses and I understand that over a medium like this it can be difficult to communicate effectively and I am as guilty of that as anyone. I'm also aware that because I am from a different country that saying what I do about guns and the laws governing them can seem like i'm taking a pot shot at America, but i'm not. i like America I like it alot just not all features of it the same as Britain. Just one final thing Loki I have come to your defence before [it was on some stupid fat thread] because I thought you were being unfairly treated. i did that because I don't just view you as a binary information but as a bloke who I would treat like anyone I met face to face. In that case I thought you were being treated unfairly, in this case I thought you were somewht out of line, that's all. My anger comes from the fact that you [without sounding sappy] mean something to me more than anonymous pixels. If I didn't care I would'nt debate with you as I would'nt care about your opinion...but I do and so when you express your opinion in a slightly less tactful way I respond in a pissed off manner that's all Loki.

(in reply to Loki45)
Profile   Post #: 233
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 5:21:13 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Starbuck09
I don't see you as anonymous though loki I see you as someone I have invested time and effort in because I wanted to debate with you and think you are worth debating with.


That's fine. You see me how you want to see me. But just remember, just because you've invested time, doesn't mean the person is going to conform to how you think they should. At the end of the debate, at the end of the day, you click the same "X" button I do. And when you do that, I disappear.

quote:

Starbuck09
If you turn out to not be who you say you are it is no skin of my nose, but anger in cases like this for me is justified because it is supplied in the same medium as what I am angry at. Just as I would react in a converstion face to face.


I know. I was just like you when I was your age. But that can and does get people in trouble. Let me tell you a quick story:

I was working as a waiter with this guy. He was 'trained' to believe that any problem could be solved (and should be solved) by fighting. This of course does not work well in the 'real' world as fighting is assault and assault is a crime. Anyway one day he, another guy we knew, and I were all joking around. Everyone was taking jabs at everyone else. Well one of my jabs struck a nerve with him. And he got angry and me and said he'd (paraphrasing) kill me if I said it again. I reacted that he was welcome to try, but when he lost he would not only face that consequence but also legal consquences regardless of whether or not he was victorious. Well, the night went on and we ended up (childishly) trading jabs via the 'dry erase board' on the wall at work, though no more actual words were exchanged.

Later that night after my shift, I was taking car of my cash and preparing to go see the manager and he came into the room. He got in my face and told me I was not going to talk to him that way again (along with several other descriptions of what I would and would not do). In addition to this, he informed me that he didn't think very highly of me and said he would repeat this information whenever he felt neccessary. I replied then that he has a problem, and it was his problem to have. Because if he is going to keep saying such things to me, he should not get mad when I relay my feelings about him in a similar fashion. I said he needed to grow up because all they are is words. Just words. And there are no "words" on this planet or in the english language that he can say to me to make me want to fight him. He didn't grasp that concept, but someday perhaps he might.

I tell you that tale as an analogy to our current situation. It's entirely your choice to get angry at what I say and your choice in how to respond. My point, is that despite what you think of me, I really am nothing to you. You may find me good to debate with and that's great. I certainly won't fault that logic. However, I am the way I am and at the end of the day, when you click the "X" button, I'm gone. There 'should' be nothing I can say to you that would make you react the way you did. You gave me that power when you reacted. You allowed me to make you react angrily and immaturely. You cannot do that to me because I will not allow it. As I said you could call my mother a whore, and I couldn't care less.

quote:

Starbuck09
I attempt as much as possible to conduct myself online as I do in everyday life and if that means a little anger every now and then so be it.


That's certainly your choice. But, and I speak from experience here, sooner or later that way of thinking can get you into trouble. There's nothing wrong with anger. It all comes down to one question: Do you control your anger, or does it control you? My anger used to be a bitter enemy of mine. I feared it, I ran from it. And whenever possible, it got me into trouble. Now, I'm in charge. I say how and when my anger is displayed and for what. I determine whether my anger flares out uncontrolled or whether it gets funneled into a more productive use.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to Starbuck09)
Profile   Post #: 234
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 5:36:50 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Has rob ever gone beyond his own personal borders?


Rob is a USMC Vet ...So yes, Rob has traveled across the world, visited many places, and fought for his country.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 235
RE: The issue of firearms - 8/17/2009 10:01:19 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

We are talking about the issue of firearms and pointing out that bans work in making gun crime negligible Loki. There is no reason the same could not happen in america if the political will is there.


Actually, there is one absolutely excellent reason - it would be against the will of the overwhelming majority of the American people. 3 out of 4 Americans believe we have the Constitutional right to own firearms. It's not a question of "political will" at all; there's just no way the public would tolerate it, no matter what some British citizens think would be best for us.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to Starbuck09)
Profile   Post #: 236
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