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Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 9:19:39 AM   
TheLadyIsADomme


Posts: 89
Joined: 4/10/2009
From: Florida
Status: offline 		Hello All:
I come across this mindset quite frequently of "absolute obedience".  But sometimes I feel like that morphs into passivity - someone who will just "take" whatever and has no will of their own.  For me, I want someone who has some independent ability to think, act, etc., but not to the point of every interaction becoming a battle of wills.
I am not sure I am making myself clear here, so, bear with me.  I guess the simple question is how do you feel about passive partners? 
Thanks!

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LD
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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 10:18:54 AM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline 		I'm not a Domme of course.....but I definitely have my own will and so on, and also definitely am very obedient to Sir.  Once I sort of, kind of, disobeyed to test His limits.  The result was I got a very red ass and then had to sit on it for awhile.  Seriously though, I'm very obedient but if I don't "reaaaaaally" want to be at a given time I will beg and plead but give in in the end, so I'm not what you'd call "passive" and He likes me this way.  He tells me He likes a little sassiness as long as it doesn't cross over into brattiness.  That way He knows I have a will of my own that I'm surrendering to His. 

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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 10:39:14 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		I used my will a great deal to get to the point where I felt able to give some of it up to a dominant as a conscious choice on my part.  'She' is always going to know that my will - and my independence of mind - is there, but she won't resent that because she knows that it's this bit of me that chooses to submit at any given moment in our relationship.   I couldn't give up that side of me even if I tried.  Were I to try, though, I'd end up exploding in the end.  Giant doses of passive aggression would be one likely result.  It's not possible for me to think myself into being just an automaton.  I don't see how that's possible for anyone to do that.   Sometimes I think the root problem of so many difficulties and arguments in D/s is that so many subs can't accept contradictory impulses within themselves.  More than a few dominants, it seems to me, can't accept those contradictory impulses in their subs, either.   A big, loud voice just keeps saying "I [or 'you'] just must be one thing or another.  Wholly submissive, or not submissive at all.  Anything else is not rational, not sane, and not authentic." 

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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 10:57:24 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I understand the difference that you're trying to make.  I hope I can articulate My response properly.

I don't particularly want a submissive who is passive.  One who will never offer his opinion on whatever the subject is at hand.  That is being passive.  The 'just agree with whatever Mistress says' mindset.

Obedience, is when his opinion has been offered, and in My authority, I chose something else.  He may not agree, but he obeys, knowing I hold the final decision, and it will be carried out.  It may not be something he likes, but My decision rules.


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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 11:22:04 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		How can an intelligent dominant want a passive person who cannot bring much interest or inspiration by being a complete person? I do not want passive... I want passion! Passion for life, interest, hobbies, people and me. Passion means that they will have personal opinions, likes and dislikes and something to say about it all. Chosing to submit themselves and their passions can also be a passion and something I require. I want a submissive full of life or I would become very bored with him. I am not bored in my own life, but I can become bored with someone. I want to live and live fully and if a man cannot live fully... I find that sad and not what I am looking for.

I don't want a lump of a person that cannot do anything but be a lump. Submissive doesn't mean empty, stagnant, stupid, slow, worthless, and yes, yes, yes. It means alive in submission to one who is also alive. Submission that I find worthwhile is the type that brings the person to life, not something that dull's him.

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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 11:39:15 AM   
Misstoyou


Posts: 1149
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline 		I don't see obedience as evidence of passivity in those I choose to interact with me. It's evidence that I'm the 51% shareholder in our partnership.

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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 2:32:04 PM   
TheLadyIsADomme


Posts: 89
Joined: 4/10/2009
From: Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I understand the difference that you're trying to make.  I hope I can articulate My response properly.

I don't particularly want a submissive who is passive.  One who will never offer his opinion on whatever the subject is at hand.  That is being passive.  The 'just agree with whatever Mistress says' mindset.

Obedience, is when his opinion has been offered, and in My authority, I chose something else.  He may not agree, but he obeys, knowing I hold the final decision, and it will be carried out.  It may not be something he likes, but My decision rules.


Yes, thank you, LP.  The "I agree with everything" no opinion kind of person drives me crazy.  I like input, feedback, etc.  But *real* feedback, not the "you know everything and I know nothing" kind of ego/ass kissing.

 

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LD

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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 2:36:28 PM   
TheLadyIsADomme


Posts: 89
Joined: 4/10/2009
From: Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

How can an intelligent dominant want a passive person who cannot bring much interest or inspiration by being a complete person? I do not want passive... I want passion! Passion for life, interest, hobbies, people and me. Passion means that they will have personal opinions, likes and dislikes and something to say about it all. Chosing to submit themselves and their passions can also be a passion and something I require. I want a submissive full of life or I would become very bored with him. I am not bored in my own life, but I can become bored with someone. I want to live and live fully and if a man cannot live fully... I find that sad and not what I am looking for.

I don't want a lump of a person that cannot do anything but be a lump. Submissive doesn't mean empty, stagnant, stupid, slow, worthless, and yes, yes, yes. It means alive in submission to one who is also alive. Submission that I find worthwhile is the type that brings the person to life, not something that dull's him.


Passion is a great way to describe what I was trying to convey.  Passion, spirit, those are the qualities I have in myself, and that I seek in others. 
 
Have you had experiences where you have encountered those who are more passive?  How do you deal with it, or do you not?
 
At the risk of sounding sycophantic, I completely agree with what you are saying here.  Thank you!

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Warmly,
LD

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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 2:40:37 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

I don't see obedience as evidence of passivity in those I choose to interact with me. It's evidence that I'm the 51% shareholder in our partnership.


That's an excellent way to put it. ;-)

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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 2:42:45 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		I want a submissive full of life

That's me sunk then.  *Sigh*.  The goalposts get ever farther away.

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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 2:50:36 PM   
KCalli


Posts: 81
Joined: 8/4/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheLadyIsADomme

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

How can an intelligent dominant want a passive person who cannot bring much interest or inspiration by being a complete person? I do not want passive... I want passion! Passion for life, interest, hobbies, people and me. Passion means that they will have personal opinions, likes and dislikes and something to say about it all. Chosing to submit themselves and their passions can also be a passion and something I require. I want a submissive full of life or I would become very bored with him. I am not bored in my own life, but I can become bored with someone. I want to live and live fully and if a man cannot live fully... I find that sad and not what I am looking for.

I don't want a lump of a person that cannot do anything but be a lump. Submissive doesn't mean empty, stagnant, stupid, slow, worthless, and yes, yes, yes. It means alive in submission to one who is also alive. Submission that I find worthwhile is the type that brings the person to life, not something that dull's him.


Passion is a great way to describe what I was trying to convey.  Passion, spirit, those are the qualities I have in myself, and that I seek in others. 
 
Have you had experiences where you have encountered those who are more passive?  How do you deal with it, or do you not?
 
At the risk of sounding sycophantic, I completely agree with what you are saying here.  Thank you!


I thin y'all hit the nail on the head. From my sub point of view, My Dom should encourage passion, spirit, but also know me well enough to channel it into where it needs to be. I submit completely, but I don't loose that "fire of life", or living. Anyone who has, I believe has become damaged, and spirit broken. That is a very sad thing. I am not sure if I said it clearly, but I would think that not allowing the passion to be is closing off a part of what could be.

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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 4:43:50 PM   
AlexandraLynch


Posts: 778
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline 		If you weren't full of life and passion and interest, I wouldn't see your name and think, with a little rise of interest, "Oh, what's his take on it?!"

The only reason I don't flirt with you is that you're across the pond and all.


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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 4:48:28 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Ah, Alexandra - thank you.  That was very kind.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 8/9/2009 5:12:09 PM >

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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 5:04:04 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexandraLynch

If you weren't full of life and passion and interest, I wouldn't see your name and think, with a little rise of interest, "Oh, what's his take on it?!"

The only reason I don't flirt with you is that you're across the pond and all.



Thats distantism surely.

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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 5:25:21 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I see being passive as something held within, beaten down, held back and not expressed for whatever reason. Submission to me is not passive! It is alive! Given by choice to one they wish to submit to and if things go well... two bring it to life, just as they do dominance. But if one is passive and not by choice/willful in their submisson... there could be resentments that build up and at some point... an aggression. Submission coming from a passive place... I have seen and it is a very sad and angry thing.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 8/9/2009 5:29:41 PM >

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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 5:32:27 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I want a submissive full of life

That's me sunk then.  *Sigh*.  The goalposts get ever farther away.


You have more life in you than many do! I don't think you are all that far from the goalpost! Do dominant's stand below or behind goal post now? lol I may be in trouble! lol

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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 7:02:37 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		As long as the basic parameters for being completely obedient are met then I see no reason why I cannot have my own personality of my own. Take away my ability to speak and I will use my gestures. I have a pretty voice I have been told so why would you like to do that?

I may appear to be passive at first but give me a few months. I have to warm up to people.

My opinion.


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You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/9/2009 7:36:17 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		Agreed here, I hate the "anything You say Maam" types. It's impossible to get to know them if you can't get into their minds. However, I also hate brats and won't go with the constant power struggle thing (been there, done that, never again). A sub may not always agree with Me and they are free and even encouraged to express that, but in their obedience and their submission will agree to do things My way barring any harm that could come to them from doing so. Very much as LadyPact said.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/11/2009 5:38:50 AM   
Arillis


Posts: 75
Joined: 10/28/2008
Status: offline 		I am a passive person, perhaps the most passive person on this planet and I reject entirely your descriptions of there being no passion or life in the man who has against overwhelming odds elected to embrace the outward demeanor of passiveness. In fact I elected passiveness based entirely on the premises it was unacceptable. A passive rogue and rebel too.

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RE: Obedience vs. Passivity - 8/11/2009 8:05:20 AM   
Taggerung


Posts: 28
Joined: 8/1/2009
Status: offline 		Adding my own two cents, I have to agree with everyone at the rate of sounding repetative. I've been lurking around here for a few days and figured this should bemy first post because it is what I feel most passionate about.

I do not want someone to just bend to my will because I associate a certain way. And if I was being ridiculous, I would want my submissive to tell me that in a polite manner. I have a lot to learn and, part of the journey is learning together. I'm not some ultimate ruler and therefore do not want someone who doesn't have an opinion. I want someone who can speak their mind and fit in with the vanilla world too.
If I wanted a submissive to be passive, I'd go buy a parrot and teach it to say Yes'am and be done with it. Probably be cheaper at the end of the day  

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