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While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 5:06:01 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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Since we're having so much fun and interesting conversation about such terms as mentor and under protection, I thought I would throw another one out there for debate. Training collar.

My angle on this term is probably different than most, as most likely My definition of training is to begin with. It's also a pretty far extension of the use of the word collar, compared to what many would use. It's a term not associated with a collar of ownership. Instead, it's more of a teaching contract. I use it specifically when I have agreed to teach someone a number of skills, those could be either service or topping skills, and in exchange, for the duration of that period, that person is in service to Me. The best application that I've ever used the term for was with a male switch who already had a sub of his own, but felt submissive toward Me. I taught him topping skills for him to use with his sub, while at the same time, the submissive part of him was being nourished because he also got to serve.

Another popular use of the term has been used to describe that period when someone has agreed to train to serve the particular that Dominant. A trial period, if you will, on how to serve in a particular home. The difference between the two is that when training for the one you expect to be permanently serving, there is hope that a collar of ownership may be a potential later in time. A training collar can be used for either purpose, depending on the agreement made between the parties, and hopefully, the negotiations between the two.

Like with the other threads that we've had on terms lately, I'm also going to offer this for consideration. Yes, I'm fully aware that some people have used the term for their own selfish purposes. Yes, some people could just call that an agreement between friends. Yes, I realize that not many people use the term at all and think it's just another thing that people dreamed up on the internet.

With those things said, what is your impression of training collars? Have you ever used or received one?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

Post #: 1

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 5:13:14 PM

MaamJay

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Joined: 9/2/2005
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I think it could be used for either purpose as You described LP. The importance, as with any other term really, is that the people using it have clearly negotiated what it means and there's no false hopes that it will ultimately transform into something else. I've not used a training collar but easily could in the future. I'd be more likely to use it for generally training someone, as anyone undertaking training to serve in My household would probably be under a collar of mutual consideration.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 2

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 5:15:12 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

Since I only do long term committed relationships I don't really get into the whole idea of training collars since to me training is a neverending process.

(in reply to MaamJay)

Post #: 3

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 5:35:28 PM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline

For my own sanity, I should probably stay well clear of this thread, but I am a masochist after all! LOL

*bolded for emphasis because this point was flagrantly ignored last time I made such a statement*

While I do not have use for the concept or relationship dynamic for myself at this point in time, I strongly uphold the rights of those who do wish to engage in such free of judgement.

Now that that's out of the way, I will say that I am not sure one person can train someone to be the submissive of another. Though there are some very bare bones, basic elements involved when and how they are expressed will vary within each relationship. Just the fact that we have such a hard time agreeing upon definitions of terms is evidence of how little semblance of unifying practices there really are within the community at all. Some would even argue that we cover such a large spectrum as to not BE a community or even a "lifestyle".

I can see what others like about it, however, and how it could be beneficial. This is especially true in high protocol circles where there are some groundrules functioning by which everyone more or less plays when gathered (when it seems most necessary and eases comfort if one does not look out of place). As far as a very general mindset and perhaps specific skills, those can be accomplished in a very general sense that will need adjusting to preference by the person who ultimately places a permanent collar.

I feel it best for me, at this time to remain a blank slate more or less for my partner to fill in with HIS training. I will need to be right for HIM and in HIS eyes, regardless of if I am fitting the general practices of the communities with which we socialize. If he sought for me to be trained in something specific, that would be different. If he wanted someone with more expertise to assist me, I would gladly do as he desired.

As for the bastardization of these terms that lead to many peoples' uneasiness with them, it is the very thing that makes me all the more tenacious to reclaim them for those who wish to use them in a beneficial manner for the well being of those involved. It doesn't even matter to me that I do not find such useful. It is the same as I feel about kinks (more or less, I'm not perfect in the open minded category). There were some that I had very strong negative opinions about at one time and even judged people who engaged in them incredibly harshly. Now I find myself standing in the very disapproval and judgement that I helped stir. People grow and change. Taking a judgemental and arrogant stance may well come back on a person eventually. I am now very careful what I condemn.

lovingpet

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 4

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 5:59:21 PM

MaamJay

Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
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I totally agree lovingpet, that no one can train someone to be a perfect sub in all aspects for someone else. However, there are aspects of general training that can be accomplished by others. As you surmised, there are aspects of high protocol that fit into that category. Also specific skills which their Dominant requires of their sub but can't teach them themselves eg cooking in specific ways, massage etc etc. A masochistic Dominant may require their sub learn how to flog them well and may engage the services of another Dominant/Top to instruct the sub appropriately. Some people might like to use a training collar to denote that relationship during the training process.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 5

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 6:12:19 PM

lovingpet

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Thank you for offering other examples MaamJay! They weren't readily coming to mind, but I do think they fit well with the concept of "training" for another.

lovingpet

(in reply to MaamJay)

Post #: 6

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 6:14:13 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Yes, wonderful addition, Jay! Especially the point made about protocol.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 7

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 6:58:53 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Since we're having so much fun and interesting conversation about such terms as mentor and under protection, I thought I would throw another one out there for debate. Training collar.

Dominant my butt... you're a bloody MASOCHIST!!!

For us, there are only two types of collars:

1) One that is worn as a symbol... similar to a wedding ring... of the jewelry "sparkly" sort.

2) One that is used to restrain... for training, discipline, punishment, play, or whatever.

< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 8/9/2009 7:06:08 PM >

_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 8

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 7:04:12 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

In effect I renamed the Training collar to a more appropriate and accurate name: Probationary Collar. After all once the decision has been made to invest time and energy, blood (hers) sweat (mine) and tears (probably both) into a new slave, the training starts whilst the courting or getting to know you, phase is in progress. Besides "Probies" are in need of training in most areas I am aware of. ~ chuckles~ I just don't slap them around the back of the head but am likely to land a stinging slap on a bare arse if the opportunity arises.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 9

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 7:21:20 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

With those things said, what is your impression of training collars? Have you ever used or received one?

Nope, nor can I imagine myself "training" someone that I wasn't deeply and intimately connected to -- meaning if they were wearing a collar, it'd be a "real" collar.

That being said, I get it that some folks engage in trainer/trainee relationships and they wish the symbology of a collar to denote that. That all seems perfectly normal to me.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 10

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 7:37:08 PM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

With those things said, what is your impression of training collars? Have you ever used or received one?

Nope, nor can I imagine myself "training" someone that I wasn't deeply and intimately connected to -- meaning if they were wearing a collar, it'd be a "real" collar.

That is probably the main reason it doesn't set well with me personally as well. I tend toward the intimate and separating "training" from emotional entanglement would be very difficult for me. I also would have trouble doing what needed to be done to "train" with someone that I didn't have a strong attachment to. That is just the way I am wired.

lovingpet

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 11

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 7:37:13 PM

DomImus

Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
With those things said, what is your impression of training collars? Have you ever used or received one?

The training collar is not something I'd personally do although I could see myself in some sort of "trainer/trainee" situation with someone who just simply wanted more or some specific real time experience. I think most people would probably classify that as casual play or some sort. For myself I prefer to keep the collar concept as simple as possible and restrict it to an ownership situation without complicating things with consideration, training or other types of collars. That other people appreciate those is quite alright to me.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 12

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 7:39:10 PM

BKSir

Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline

To me "training collar" always sounded kind of silly. Reminds me of 'training bra', and makes me laugh a little bit, albeit involuntarily.

In all seriousness though, I never believed in such things (the collars, not the bras, I know training bras exist). For me, one is either wearing my collar or not. The training part is only natural, and is an ongoing thing I think. In the beginning, there is going to be more to learn than there will be a few years down the road, obviously, but there's always learning and training.

That being that, I also personally don't believe in "trial periods" or "probationary periods" in the sense that they're commonly used. As mentioned on another thread, I tend to go slowly, and by the time I ask a pet to wear my collar, that "probationary period" is a non issue, as I'm about 95% sure that they're a good fit for myself and the household.

On the rare occasions that I have used what I call a 'training collar', it is what most call a 'choke chain'. Used to train the pet to follow obediently on a leash or sit/kneel when I say so. Yes, they work just as well on people as they do on animals. ;)

_____________________________

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I am the voices in your head.

BiggKatt Studios

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 13

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 7:41:07 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

I always have issue with word "Training" when it comes to the specifics of submission.

How can you teach someone to be MY submissive?

How can you teach someone who to find Joy in an act?

How can you teach someone to be pleasing to someone they haven't even met yet?

Now all that being said I have come to respect certain people and have learned a new method when it comes to surrender and submission. I have come to accept houses that keep people in the mind frame of being in service. I can understand training houses as places that help someone completely submerge themselves into a framework of service and allow them to function under complete control but when I hear someone training someone positions and how to serve drinks and where to kneel I always get annoyed because when it comes to me I will have to UNDO everything that they did.

Steel

_____________________________

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Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 14

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 8:13:54 PM

onlyfreelycaged

Posts: 254
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

I've always thought of "training" as a learning period for the sub and or dom.. kind of like making something official, instead of just playing around. Kind of like dating, it doesn't have to have a long trum relationship implied, but it does apply one.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 15

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 8:19:15 PM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Since we're having so much fun and interesting conversation about such terms as mentor and under protection, I thought I would throw another one out there for debate. Training collar.

My angle on this term is probably different than most, as most likely My definition of training is to begin with. It's also a pretty far extension of the use of the word collar, compared to what many would use. It's a term not associated with a collar of ownership. Instead, it's more of a teaching contract. I use it specifically when I have agreed to teach someone a number of skills, those could be either service or topping skills, and in exchange, for the duration of that period, that person is in service to Me. The best application that I've ever used the term for was with a male switch who already had a sub of his own, but felt submissive toward Me. I taught him topping skills for him to use with his sub, while at the same time, the submissive part of him was being nourished because he also got to serve.

Another popular use of the term has been used to describe that period when someone has agreed to train to serve the particular that Dominant. A trial period, if you will, on how to serve in a particular home. The difference between the two is that when training for the one you expect to be permanently serving, there is hope that a collar of ownership may be a potential later in time. A training collar can be used for either purpose, depending on the agreement made between the parties, and hopefully, the negotiations between the two.

Like with the other threads that we've had on terms lately, I'm also going to offer this for consideration. Yes, I'm fully aware that some people have used the term for their own selfish purposes. Yes, some people could just call that an agreement between friends. Yes, I realize that not many people use the term at all and think it's just another thing that people dreamed up on the internet.

With those things said, what is your impression of training collars? Have you ever used or received one?

LP,

For myself, it is a prostitution of the collar concept. If she/he does not work out............. well it was only temporary!!!

CP

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 16

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 8:19:18 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I appreciate the replies. I do have to say that for those already in committed dynamics and are not poly, the situation doesn't apply.

Now, about this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I always have issue with word "Training" when it comes to the specifics of submission.

Part of the point of this is not dealing with specifics. It is about generalizations. Some skills are rather universal. Corset lacing comes to mind.

quote:

How can you teach someone to be MY submissive?

I can't. Never said I could. What I can teach are basics. In the example that I gave, I was teaching topping skills. I can absolutely teach protocols, ritual, and service.

quote:

How can you teach someone who to find Joy in an act?

Again, I can not. Instead, I can provide the environment where they can find that joy for themselves through experience. I would say that it is My understanding that someone who craves to serve, but it not involved in a pre-existing dynamic can benefit from feeding that longing to serve.

quote:

How can you teach someone to be pleasing to someone they haven't even met yet?

By conditioning. By teaching them that it's good to be pleasing to someone they are serving. It's all about positive reinforcement in this area. I would never teach someone that My way was the only way. It's more about fostering that positive feeling they get from taking a command or providing a service. Being pleasing or joyous in service is not Dominant specific. If that were the case, no one could ever have more than one Dominant in a lifetime.

~~~~~~~~~

In another context, it could be thought of like this. Have you ever been in a relationship where there was a commitment, but you knew it wasn't the person you would spend the rest of your life with? Did you not get some fulfillment from it?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 17

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 8:27:22 PM

pyroaquatic

Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline

My only question is

"Do I need training?"

I rather enjoy the sensei/teacher aspect of a relationship when it occurs. I am a polymath by nature so....

I may never take the training collar off. I am always in a state of training.... never complete.

To me a training collar is symbolic of the relationship held between the Dominant and Submissive. Probie collar... whatever.

_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 18

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 9:15:09 PM

kitastrophe33

Posts: 85
Joined: 9/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

With those things said, what is your impression of training collars? Have you ever used or received one?

Personally, I don't like the idea the idea. Training is ongoing. My master's needs and preferences will change over time so in that sense he'll be training me for our whole life together so having a training collar and then something else later seems odd.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 19

RE: While we're at it..... training collars - 8/9/2009 9:47:40 PM

Malkinius

Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline

Greetings LadyPact....

Drats! You gave almost the same answers I was going to give him. <harumph!> How dare you?

<grins>

We do seem to have almost the same concept of a training collar. It is a temporary relationship based on education and control with education being the primary component. It is not the same thing as ownership. It is also not a romantic relationship. It will not work for those unable to submit without the romantic feelings towards their dominant.

The one point you missed in your reply to Steel is that yes, I can teach them how to please you. I can do so by teaching them how to LEARN to please someone. They learn to expect to have to learn the specifics of their new owner. Now, instead of fumbling their way through doing that and the possibility of an owner who doesn't have much of a clue how to properly teach such things, they know how to find them out and implement them. (Steel: This means they learn what you want them to learn faster and easier and yes, that can mean unlearning some things as well.)

I do normally operate in a much more standardize environment when training slaves. There are some things all of them are expected to know and be able to do. In a totally freeform BDSM environment it is much harder on the submissive or slave to adapt to a new owner than where there are ongoing traditions.

I am surprised their hasn't been the usual vilification of anyone speaking positively about training collars. I suppose that is still to come. They do work when done for the right reasons...education and control. Or...as I put it...learn and obey and do so in that order.

Be well....

Malkinius

_____________________________

A questioner by inclination...An Auctioneer for the fun of it
http://www.HouseMalkinius.com The goal is community.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 20

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