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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 9:43:12 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

We would love nothing more than for him to find a comfortable spot within the Canadian Conservative party. Will you please take him?
No, he`s too right wing for me, I am a Liberal most of the time


What if we promise not to send Celine Dion back?

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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 9:44:40 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You have to understand, Arpig, "Socialist" is a word that gets used very casually in the United States in reference to those who default to a "government first" solution.


'Government First'?  Ain't this country a little over two hundred years old, and didn't we try lassize faire for quite some time and find out that money was more important than fair dealing? 

Government after trying out every other tired thing....
Ron

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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 9:58:40 AM   
Arpig


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quote:

What if we promise not to send Celine Dion back?
OK, OK, we`ll take Obama, you just keep Celine Dion...please, Hell we`ll take Pelosi and Palin too if you just keep Celine Dion.


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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 10:03:14 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Well, we've pretty much had Palin separated as far as we can get her from us and up in your neck of the woods for some time now...........

LOL.

Ron 

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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 11:28:45 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You have to understand, Arpig, "Socialist" is a word that gets used very casually in the United States in reference to those who default to a "government first" solution.


Facist and racist have also been used very casually on this forum, with regards to the President and anyone else who isnt a rabid right winger. Hardly a good debating tactic is it ?

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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 11:36:40 AM   
Apocalypso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Facist and racist have also been used very casually on this forum, with regards to the President and anyone else who isnt a rabid right winger. Hardly a good debating tactic is it ?
Depends what you mean by "good".  It's inaccurate, but 'playing the man not the ball' is an effective way of avoiding the question.


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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 11:44:18 AM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Well playing the man not the ball is also effective in stopping a rabid right winger, now that I think about it.

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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 12:18:26 PM   
Sanity


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When Americans say "socialist" they generally mean a rabid left winger, and we say "socialist" instead of the hateful words that you use to try to be polite. The word "socialist" does have a very negative undertone to it here, but it isn't nearly as nasty as saying "rabid right winger" or "rabid left winger" as you do. 

Obama spent twenty years in a very hateful, racist, and uber socialist school of black theology studying under "the Reverend" Jeremiah Wright, and he's a radical socialist alright, even if there is a very thin veneer of "moderate" covering the face of who he really is. He lets it slip every now and then what he was taught there though, just as he did when he said he didn't have the facts but he was still sure that the Cambridge police acted "stupidly" in the famous arrest of Henry Louis Gates Jr recently.

That's just scratching the surface, more has been revealed about Obama's radical leanings than that, and I'm sure far more will be revealed in the future.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Well playing the man not the ball is also effective in stopping a rabid right winger, now that I think about it.


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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 12:25:18 PM   
zenny


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Status: offline 		I always find it hilarious that those from countries well into socialist practices seem to no longer think them socialist. Read some Seldon and Marx/Engels.

< Message edited by zenny -- 8/10/2009 12:44:11 PM >

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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 12:36:28 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

I always find it hilarious that those from countries well into socialist practices seem to no longer thing them socialist. Read some Seldon and Marx/Engels.
Since this appears to be directed at me, I will reply. I don't recall ever saying Canada was or wasn't a socialist country. I did however say that in Canada we have genuine socialist parties with definite socialist agendas. I also said Obama and his policies would fit in with our Conservative party, and that he was too right wing for me. I think from that you can easily deduce that I am basically a socialist (at least by US standards) and that I readily admit that my country is very left wing....our major right wing party is pretty left wing by US standards.
Canada is indeed a socialist country, not as deeply so as some, but more so than others, and I wouldn't have it any other way.


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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 12:36:37 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


When Americans say "socialist" they generally mean a rabid left winger, and we say "socialist" instead of the hateful words that you use to try to be polite. The word "socialist" does have a very negative undertone to it here, but it isn't nearly as nasty as saying "rabid right winger" or "rabid left winger" as you do. 



Two points, firstly if i call both sides rabid, at least i am impartial in its use.

Secondly, dont tell me you have never used the word rabid, like the words copied below for instance.

"I could post links to all kinds of video footage of people on the left acting like rabid racist fools, or whatever. "

Pot kettle and black spring to mind.

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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 12:38:30 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Is being called a socialist sposed to be an insult??
Commie I can understand.... after all the paranoia during the 50s and 60s, but if socialist is sposed to upset me?? sorry Ive been insulted by professionals and no one here is of that caliber, altho some  seem to  think they are
Lucy


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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 12:45:01 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

I always find it hilarious that those from countries well into socialist practices seem to no longer thing them socialist. Read some Seldon and Marx/Engels.
Since this appears to be directed at me, I will reply. I don't recall ever saying Canada was or wasn't a socialist country. I did however say that in Canada we have genuine socialist parties with definite socialist agendas. I also said Obama and his policies would fit in with our Conservative party, and that he was too right wing for me. I think from that you can easily deduce that I am basically a socialist (at least by US standards) and that I readily admit that my country is very left wing....our major right wing party is pretty left wing by US standards.
Canada is indeed a socialist country, not as deeply so as some, but more so than others, and I wouldn't have it any other way.


Dammit Arpig, Im gonna have to hug you hard:) I agree, as a choose to be Canuck, altho I dont want palin or whats her face pelosi ....blech
Lucy


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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 12:50:53 PM   
Apocalypso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

I always find it hilarious that those from countries well into socialist practices seem to no longer think them socialist. Read some Seldon and Marx/Engels.
Ah, excellent.  It's lovely to see a fellow theoretican on here.

What would you view be on the claim that Lenin's implementation of socialism was actually what Engels had previously dismissed as Bonapartism?  And what would be your general take on the split in the first International?


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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 12:56:21 PM   
zenny


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Status: offline 		Indeed, it was mostly directed to you. However, also to others on the forum in similar situations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
Obama is not, I repeat NOT a socialist.


This is where my comment stemmed from.

Furthermore, remember, just because something is considered in a realm to be conservative does not alter the meaning of socialism. In fact, within that realm it only means it would be less socialist but socialist none the less. Hence my mention of Seldon and Marx/Engels.

I feel I need to add in I'm not saying this out of maliciousness. Just pointing it out for consideration. I'm sure it's been pondered by those present in the past. All the same, it never hurts to do it again with new experience and perspective.


< Message edited by zenny -- 8/10/2009 12:59:44 PM >

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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 2:23:12 PM   
Ialdabaoth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Obama spent twenty years in a very hateful, racist, and uber socialist school of black theology studying under "the Reverend" Jeremiah Wright, and he's a radical socialist alright, even if there is a very thin veneer of "moderate" covering the face of who he really is. He lets it slip every now and then what he was taught there though, just as he did when he said he didn't have the facts but he was still sure that the Cambridge police acted "stupidly" in the famous arrest of Henry Louis Gates Jr recently.


Are we still watching "Blazing Saddles"?

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 3:55:31 PM   
Sanity


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Status: offline 		We're watching "Blazing Saddles" alright, but with a twist:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/08/the-us-commission-on-civil-rights-on-friday-demand/

http://www.examiner.com/x-2684-Law-Enforcement-Examiner~y2009m7d30-Black-Panther-voter-intimidation-case-dropped-by-Justice-Department

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=14826588&ch=4226713&src=news

Can you imagine the shit storm we would have had if the KKK had been caught on videotape intimidating BLACK voters and the BUSH Justice Department had let the three KKK members off the hook for voter intimidation?




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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 4:02:26 PM   
Ialdabaoth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

We're watching "Blazing Saddles" alright, but with a twist:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/08/the-us-commission-on-civil-rights-on-friday-demand/

http://www.examiner.com/x-2684-Law-Enforcement-Examiner~y2009m7d30-Black-Panther-voter-intimidation-case-dropped-by-Justice-Department

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=14826588&ch=4226713&src=news

Can you imagine the shit storm we would have had if the KKK had been caught on videotape intimidating BLACK voters and the BUSH Justice Department had let the three KKK members off the hook for voter intimidation?


*snicker* I'll consider believing that the Black Panthers and the KKK are on equal moral footing the day that white-victim/black-murderer statistics exceed the historical number of black lynchings and slave deaths that occured during the south, adjusted per-capita.

And no, I'm not saying that as a form of moral equivalence, per se. I'm just noting that the Black Panthers have more ethically understandable reasons to be the way they are, and when they get all reactionary-militant, I'm more inclined to believe that they were provoked by something more substantial than "Bo says a nigger looked at a white woman funny".


< Message edited by Ialdabaoth -- 8/10/2009 4:03:29 PM >

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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 4:20:38 PM   
MmeGigs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
altho I dont want palin or whats her face pelosi ....blech


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RE: A heads up vis a vis socialism - 8/10/2009 4:24:00 PM   
GoddessImaginos


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