RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (Full Version)

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cpK69 -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/11/2009 2:00:54 AM)

And here I was trying to rid myself of expectations.

I believe trust has more to do with the perception and abilities of the person trusting, than the one/thing that they put trust in. “but… I trusted you!” is a cop-out for not having to take responsibility for one’s choices.

Because of my perception of trust, I cannot consider myself less responsible for my choice to be in the situation, than any other person I am involved with; knowing they are human too, therefore, prone to fucking up.

Kim



slaveluci -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/11/2009 5:13:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

Theoretically trust can be regained. However the quality of the regained trust for me will never be as high as that which was lost

Interesting, for me, I perceive it differently. For me, the first breaking of trust with someone -- in either direction -- is like the crucible where we find out whether there is really a relationship there or not. If it all collapses in a narcissistic paroxysm of self-pity, then it wasn't much of a relationship to start with. If it survives, then that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

I mistrust that initial period of innocence when nobody's hurt anyone or done anything wrong, as sweet as it is I also see it as naive.

Wonderfully stated. I could not agree more. I always have to wonder at those who talk of trust as if it's something they themselves have NEVER broken or violated. If one is not to be found hypocritical, then one must apply the same standards to oneself that one applies to others. I'm not so uber-confident in my own perfection that I can expect it of another. It would be lonely to be up on that pedestal looking down at all the "trust-breakers" I've cut out of my life. Nah, not for me. Well said, as usual, leadership[:)]

luci



agirl -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/11/2009 5:38:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci


quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

Theoretically trust can be regained. However the quality of the regained trust for me will never be as high as that which was lost

Interesting, for me, I perceive it differently. For me, the first breaking of trust with someone -- in either direction -- is like the crucible where we find out whether there is really a relationship there or not. If it all collapses in a narcissistic paroxysm of self-pity, then it wasn't much of a relationship to start with. If it survives, then that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

I mistrust that initial period of innocence when nobody's hurt anyone or done anything wrong, as sweet as it is I also see it as naive.

Wonderfully stated. I could not agree more. I always have to wonder at those who talk of trust as if it's something they themselves have NEVER broken or violated. If one is not to be found hypocritical, then one must apply the same standards to oneself that one applies to others. I'm not so uber-confident in my own perfection that I can expect it of another. It would be lonely to be up on that pedestal looking down at all the "trust-breakers" I've cut out of my life. Nah, not for me. Well said, as usual, leadership[:)]

luci


I've never trusted anyone on all levels, about everything, in all ways.......and it would be a foolish person that trusted ME in that way.There's no cut and dried aspect to trust that could lure me to have that.

I trust *things* about people and trust aspects of people in varying degrees; there's no mantle of *overall* trust that I'd apply to anyone, including myself.

agirl




DomImus -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/11/2009 6:43:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
Wonderfully stated. I could not agree more. I always have to wonder at those who talk of trust as if it's something they themselves have NEVER broken or violated.


They are the very same ones who will not stand for a lie because they themselves have never told a lie.

The 'absolutes' are the folks you really need to be wary of.





cloudboy -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/11/2009 9:16:40 AM)


To me, confidence is concentration on positive outcomes combined with deliberate action.



NihilusZero -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/11/2009 9:44:02 AM)

My short, short (way oversimplified) answer:

The D-type needs confidence.
The s-type needs trust.
And both need sensibility and critical thinking in order to adequately assess the presence of the first two in each other.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/11/2009 9:56:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus
They are the very same ones who will not stand for a lie because they themselves have never told a lie.
Exactly. They are also the ones you see posting about how they lost their partner because she/he found out about them 'cheating' or they 'cheated'.

I expect friends and acquaintances to "lie". They break dinner plans, they don't go to clubs or munches they said they would; things come up and its easier to say something came up at work or some other excuse rather than say they are tired or they simply don't feel as enthusiastic to attend as they did when plans were made. I've done it; most people have done something similar. If a person can't distinction between a breech of trust in a relationship and "lying" about a what you had for breakfast or some other mundane issue; it would seem to disqualify the person from being able to commit to relationship in the first place.

Within a relationship, regardless of the dynamic, it's different. Experiencing a relationship where I'm enjoying total unqualified and reciprocal trust, were it dashed there is no way it could ever be "the same". I wouldn't be able to stay in the presence of beth should she somehow breech that trust. Although for the life of me, I can't imagine how that would be possible. Perhaps that best represents both polarities.

But this thread is about "confidence". Confidence regarding doing something which potentially could impact the mutual deep reciprocal trust. Personally, I don't equate that to misrepresenting that the dog ate your homework, or any of the other lies and/or rationalizations that people seem to need to use daily to function.
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
I only care that it is enough not who needs more or less.

KoM,
Excellent point, but it only changes the question. It doesn't eliminate it. How do you know there is enough on both sides of the flogger enough before attempting something that could impact the relationship?



daintydimples -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/11/2009 10:20:12 AM)

I see confidence as having more than one side, b/c confidence stems from self esteem. Where and how you get your self esteem varies.

External self esteem, based on things outside of ourselves, is easily gained. For example, esteem in your ability to wield a flogger is acquired by practice or training. This external type of esteem might be additionally enhanced by acquiring a wide range of floggers in a variety of materials. This esteem is further enhanced by, let's say going to a play party and showing off your flogger skills with your many fancy floggers. All of these things are confidence building.

Internal self esteem is based on your knowledge of and comfort with who you are as a person. This type of esteem is not easily acquired and often only after much personal failure, pain, and soul searching.

I think it takes an enormous amount of internal confidence to trust your ability to choose who to submit to.

I think the more self confident both parties are, the more chance of success in the relationship. I feel this is true of any relationship, kink or non.







SteelofUtah -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/11/2009 11:07:49 AM)

Confidence is a funny thing. I started a thread about using a toy that for about a decade scared the shit outta me for fear that I would "HARM" someone, see I know I am going to hurt them that is kind of the point, but HARMING them is not something I am comfortable with and this particular toy if used wrong could cause some harsh damage and possible harm.

Confidence came to both in the form of Self Confidence in that I was comfortable using the tool and confident that I would not cause any harm, Confidence in my girls in that I was confident they could take it and it would not leave them in a dark place, the girls confidence in themselves knowing that they were able to take a strike from a tool that they were too scared of to even take out of the bag, and an overall confidence in the relationship that we were moving forward and that it was a good thing.

Sure the Campy answer is that we all need confidence to grow in this lifestyle adrift. HOWEVER the question is which side requires more, and that is a tricky question as has already been stated due only to the direction of the confidence. Self Confidence I think a Dominant requires more as even if a girl has ZERO self confidence a Confident Master can help to instill that within her. Confidence in your Partner I think the submissive needs much more than the Dominant party as the position for potential HARM is directional flowing down.

Then there is the other side of that argument all together Confidence in your Partner to do the right thing and speak up when something is wrong. I have confidence that I CAN SEE when andi is in need of something and I have confidence that with a little dialogue we can get to the root of the issue and find a happy solution. I have confidence that caryn will come to me when she is having an issue because she has already shown a desire to bring problems to me when they are too overwhelming for her and I know that both girls have confidence in me that when there is a problem that I am going to do what is necessary to remedy the situation.

So I am sorry but I have to give the Campy answer and say that Confidence depends on what you are refering to, what direction it is flowing, and the situation it is applied to and depending on that it is can be far more important from one said then the other, that is until the situation changes then the confidence level will again be tested.

Steel



Mercnbeth -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/11/2009 11:38:09 AM)

quote:

I started a thread about using a toy that for about a decade scared the shit outta me for fear that I would "HARM" someone, see I know I am going to hurt them that is kind of the point, but HARMING them is not something I am comfortable with and this particular toy if used wrong could cause some harsh damage and possible harm.
The funny thing about this comment is that although I've done unintended harm on more than one occasion with beth; either missing a 'target' or using some item incorrectly. I never have a problem with that. I guess it's the sadistic side of me on those occasions that generates a smirk or even a giggle and gives an "Animal House" - John Belushi breaking the guitar on the stairs "sorry..."

Either that or I have enough confidence to not worry that beth will think ill of me, or my "skills".

But what happens when you get out of your comfort zone? Would you go out of your comfort zone? Is your comfort zone subject to whim, and/or opportunity?

BTW - I'm using this quote completely out of context because I think it helps best represent my intended focus.
quote:

So I am sorry
Should a situation come up where you went outside your comfort zone, whatever it is, with either of your girls, would you say that to andi or caryn? Would it be enough?



Taggerung -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/11/2009 12:32:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

And here I was trying to rid myself of expectations.

I believe trust has more to do with the perception and abilities of the person trusting, than the one/thing that they put trust in. “but… I trusted you!” is a cop-out for not having to take responsibility for one’s choices.

Because of my perception of trust, I cannot consider myself less responsible for my choice to be in the situation, than any other person I am involved with; knowing they are human too, therefore, prone to fucking up.

Kim


I agree completely with this. I mean there are limits in which "but I trusted you" might work but overall, man up and admit it probably wasn't a good idea to not say something sooner.
I'm a firm believer that trust can be regained to some extent. I'll always be wary but, I will go back to that "I trust you not to screw up that bad again" mentality. We are people and we do sometimes fail at life (Im 19 its cool if I use that term :-P ) so, it wouldn't be fair, in my book, to not be willing to forgive and mostly forget.




SteelofUtah -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/11/2009 3:03:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The funny thing about this comment is that although I've done unintended harm on more than one occasion with beth; either missing a 'target' or using some item incorrectly. I never have a problem with that. I guess it's the sadistic side of me on those occasions that generates a smirk or even a giggle and gives an "Animal House" - John Belushi breaking the guitar on the stairs "sorry..."


My Brother, I believe we have different definitions of harm. Have you ever cut beth so deep it required stitches and that wasn't your intended goal? Was you inability to use a new toy something that ever Hospitalized beth? I make mistakes ALL THE TIME. caryn has a protruding bone above her butt, it gets hit occasionally and it HURTS like hell and I will sometimes giggle and give the The Belushi "sorry" but I have never been so inept that I hit it hard enough to break it and if I did I would consider that HARM. Hurting someone unintentionally can be funny. caryn being new to the sleeping situation has been kicked in the face once or twice and although we feel bad we laugh our asses off and she has learned not to stand of kneel in certain places when the morning Pee Ritual starts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Either that or I have enough confidence to not worry that beth will think ill of me, or my "skills".


Knowing you and beth I know that what I am about to say isn't valid for your relationship however I wish to illustrate a point. If you cut beth open and she started to bleed out, if you had her in a bondage position that cut off circulation and she started to pass out, if you intentionally disreguarded her safety and her well being, we are talking her ability to keep on living unassisted ......... do you still think that she would be so eager not to think ill of you? (Like I said knowing beth, this question might not be the best but it illustrates my difference of hurt and harm and may give you a slightly different perspective. )

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

But what happens when you get out of your comfort zone? Would you go out of your comfort zone? Is your comfort zone subject to whim, and/or opportunity?


Comfort Zone is a nice place I know what happens in the comfort zone, I know what I can do and what I cannot do in the comfort zone, but when I pull out the Loopy Johnny we step slightly outside the comfort zone to the point where I am starting to fly without a Parachute, where my ability to guage the outcome starts to drop in percentage. When we step outside the comfort zone I can no longer assume that no one will come to HARM. If I let someone else play with andi or caryn who has never played with them this is slightly outside my comfort zone, I do not know if they will respect them the same way that I do. If I were to let someone else do something new to them they they have never done then there is a serious step outside the comfort zone because now no one knows the probable outcome, now we are all playing on hope and possible vsiable variables, and who knows what invisiable variables there may be.

My Comfort Zone is based on Methodical time and experience and trial and self experimentation as well as my ability to learn from other people mistakes. I will create a comfort zone for something I have never done and then research the shit out of it until I am at least familiar with the mechanics of the idea. Then I will test as much as is possible on myself to see the physical effect and then I will slowly introduce such things to my desired partner. As soon as they are familiar with the concept we will experiment with duration and intenisty and importantly pushing the limitations of THEIR comfort levels.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

So I am sorry


Should a situation come up where you went outside your comfort zone, whatever it is, with either of your girls, would you say that to andi or caryn? Would it be enough?


Merc, you know me. If I ever HARMED one of my girls I would say that I am sorry and I would do everything possible to correct the action and keep it from ever happening again. I am POSITIVE that I would be forgiven as it was a mistake, but nothing would be enough for me until I made allowances that it never happen again.

If I ever Harmed one of my girls because of my own arrogance I do not know what it would take for me to recover.

Steel



kyraofMists -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/12/2009 7:16:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
I only care that it is enough not who needs more or less.

KoM,
Excellent point, but it only changes the question. It doesn't eliminate it. How do you know there is enough on both sides of the flogger enough before attempting something that could impact the relationship?


I don't think questions are ever eliminated... I just think we need to be asking the right ones... It's hard enough to find answers to some questions... but it really seems tragic to spend time answering a quesiton that ends up being the wrong one.

As far as the question that I care about.... There is really no answer that fits every situation because every situation buiilds upon another and changes the answer from situation to situation. But in the end... after all is considered... It's my instincts that will tip the scale one way or another for me.



edited to add... mmmmmmmmm I guess posting under Kyra's nic is what I get when I exercise my authority with little consideration and just take the laptop from her to respond to this..... chuckles....



Mercnbeth -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/12/2009 7:27:01 AM)

quote:

Have you ever cut beth so deep it required stitches and that wasn't your intended goal?
No, but early in the relationship, I misjudged her strength and caused her to pull a groin muscle by not securing her thigh to a cross. It was serious and scary, but even in that case, I had no fear or concern about losing the 'look' that I referred to in the OP. A physical mistake, even one causing serious damage, short of death, is easier to get over than a mistake that generates ongoing mental and emotional anguish.

You see physical scars and can give them ongoing care. Emotional scars fester and often the ongoing problems, not visible, are more difficult to overcome. There is guilt on both sides. Unlike a physical scar that can be given ongoing care when it 'itches' as it heals, the need for ongoing care isn't as evident. Often the guilt involved inhibits both sides from talking about it. Which is why I raise the question of confidence. I think the risk is higher when the "bleeding" and resulting scars don't show.

Comments so far have raised another question. Does it take more self confidence, or confidence in the representations made by your partner to leave the relationship 'comfort zone'.

Maybe a question for another thread, but your example points to a question to be considered with physical play. Personally, I don't think I ever experienced "Top-Space"; the other side of "sub-space". I make a conscience effort NOT to lose control. I know I could do a LOT more damage if I unleashed the demon sadist within; and I don't want to come out of a top-space experience with a dismembered sub laying at my feet.

Can a 'Top' ever relinquish total control over themselves?



SteelofUtah -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/12/2009 11:04:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Have you ever cut beth so deep it required stitches and that wasn't your intended goal?
No, but early in the relationship, I misjudged her strength and caused her to pull a groin muscle by not securing her thigh to a cross. It was serious and scary, but even in that case, I had no fear or concern about losing the 'look' that I referred to in the OP. A physical mistake, even one causing serious damage, short of death, is easier to get over than a mistake that generates ongoing mental and emotional anguish.


Now I understand where you have ben going I did not get this point until just now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

You see physical scars and can give them ongoing care. Emotional scars fester and often the ongoing problems, not visible, are more difficult to overcome. There is guilt on both sides. Unlike a physical scar that can be given ongoing care when it 'itches' as it heals, the need for ongoing care isn't as evident. Often the guilt involved inhibits both sides from talking about it. Which is why I raise the question of confidence. I think the risk is higher when the "bleeding" and resulting scars don't show.


ABSOLUTELY!!! I can Mend and patch any abrasion, I can sew up and seal any open wound, but it is the ones that do not come with a visable tare that cause me worry. I am a Cerebral Person, I talk things out and so I spend a LOT of time making sure the emotional stability of my girls is being accounted for. In many situations I still have to deal with the invisable. See I got these girls after they had been through some trials and tribulations of life and well there are wounds both visiable and not that I am still mending today, my goal as the dominant influence is to lessen these internal scars while adding as few of my own to the tally.

Guilt is not something I carry around anymore with me. If I did something wrong I make amends for it as soon as I am aware of my own wrong. I do not want to have to carry that around the longer I do the more time I put into actively doing NOTHING about it. If I address what I did wrong and they understand that I know what I did was wrong then we can move forward onto repairing the EFFECT of what I had done.

As a Dominant however I am willing to admit my wrongs and make amends for them however I am not willing to allow them to control my continual actions. I will do what is necessary to mend the wound I caused visable or not but I will continue to try and move forward. There is a reason I never threw away the Loopy Johnny, I may have been afraid of what it could do but that did not mean that I was going to abandon the idea that I had the ability to learn to use it responsibly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Comments so far have raised another question. Does it take more self confidence, or confidence in the representations made by your partner to leave the relationship 'comfort zone'.


This is a question I do not think has a general answer I think comfort is an individual aspect when it comes to stepping outside the comfort zone. Now in a D/s relationship it is often up to the Dom to decide when the stepping happens. As a matter of fact caryn is fond of saying "I don't really have a choice here, we'll do what you want to do" this is true but I take interest in what my submissive is okay with. Sure It may not change the docket for that nights activities, but then again maybe it will. I know I will often look at all my toys and go I'm gunna start with this one use all of these and then end with this one." I don't WANT to use every one of them but I don't mind using every one of them either and if when I ask is there anything you DON'T want used and they point out a toy that they would rather I not use and I am not committed to using it I might not use it.

When refering to a Top/bottom situation the power dynamic can at times be different and the comfort zone can already be compromised. When this happens it is important that one takes into account their actions there is not necessarily a standing understanding of the bottoms mental state of always what emotional landminds can be triggers. I am reminded of a woman you could beat on with a sack of oranges until you split skin and she would love every second of it, but run your fingernails down her back and she would freak out and fly to a corner and cry until the memory of the man who raped her was gone. Comfort Zones are individualized for most people I am comfortable in my ability and skill in using Scalpals, and Razor Blades and Knives very close to gentailia, that does not mean that my confidence will translate into their confidence in me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Maybe a question for another thread, but your example points to a question to be considered with physical play. Personally, I don't think I ever experienced "Top-Space"; the other side of "sub-space". I make a conscience effort NOT to lose control. I know I could do a LOT more damage if I unleashed the demon sadist within; and I don't want to come out of a top-space experience with a dismembered sub laying at my feet.


Top-Space is one of those things that I find difficult to relate to as I see sub-space as a reaction to the Complete Dropping of Dopamine in the system and the introduction of Seratonin (SP?) to the brain without Dopamine with the hightened Endorphine levels causing the nervous stytem to overload, the dream like state that is created is often a chemical one. The Top-Space would be an Endorphine Rush and then the relaxed state of focus matched with applied exersion of the body. I do not see the chemical "Catatonic" like state that some people relate to. Then again the brain is a very amazing thing it is possible that at the point one believes they have reached Top-space thier body does release large amounts of dopamine and that would result in a similar state.

That being said I am in full agreement with you, I know what I am Capable of and I know that if I get to a point where my judgement is in question and I am no longer in control that I could "snap back into it" and find a seriously harmed sub in front of me. Maybe not dismembered, but I should remember that for the next time Merc does "Edge" play.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Can a 'Top' ever relinquish total control over themselves?


Now we get back to my LEAST favorite thing in the world Definitions.

Can a Top ever relinquish total control? Sure there is a possibility that the Top is only a TOP in the scene and the control that they are projecting is only a latent desire of someone else has taken control of the situation. That person may not be in the scene but they are taking control of it by orchestrating it.

I do not believe that someone who is Dominant can ever relinquish full control, it is one of the things that intrigues me about switches because I wonder how they can be both, The one in control and then give it up comepletely. I often see Switches as subs that are Tops or Doms that are bottoms, because I am unable to find where complete control is either taken or given without there being some form of deception as to what is going on internally.

Mind you I am not saying that switches don't exist I just have a problem with the idea that someone can be completely Dominant and completely submissive without bleed-through from one or the other source.

Steel



utahSteelsandi -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/12/2009 1:51:02 PM)

first off i would like to say that, like Lady Pact, i would have loved to have been there for the original conversation. but thank you Merc for bringing it to the bords.

now to address the question, i don't feel it is a matter of who has more, i think it is just different. a bottom needs to have the confidence in the Top that They are not going to cause one of those nasty mental scars. they also need to have confidence in the fact that the Top knows them, thier limits, what an extremely-bad-hurt moan sounds like. the truth is, if Steel didn't know me so well and know where on my body to hit and how hard, or know what my sounds were,  i would not have the confidence needed in Him and His skill.

now, the Top needs to have confidence it Themselves. They need to have confidence not only in Thier skill, but in thier observational skills. as i mentioned above for the bottom, the same goes, in a way, for the Top. They need to know Thier bottom, know thier body, thier moans and thier limits, and know how far They can push those limits.

i feel that, in a way, confidence all boils down into a form of trust. to be a bottom or a Top, you need to trust your partener. i trust that Steel is not going to give me anything i can't handle, wether i feel i can or not, i also trust His skill with His toys, even if He is a bit afraid of it. i have complete confidence in Him and myself to trust Him and everything He dishes out.

thank you for letting me rant.

andi



sweetsub1957 -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/12/2009 2:23:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

My short, short (way oversimplified) answer:

The D-type needs confidence.
The s-type needs trust.
And both need sensibility and critical thinking in order to adequately assess the presence of the first two in each other.



Perfectly said.  [;)]



Steelslilbit -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/12/2009 2:52:11 PM)

So, having read the convo.....methinks i'll add my own two cents and see if anyone else thinks it's worth half as much.  A few people brought up some interesting points that in some fashion i agree with.  Trust and Confidence in this world, and in the vanilla for that matter, go hand in hand.  If you have confidence in yourself and your partner, no matter if you are top or bottom, your partner will hopefully have trust in you.  In the beginning of a relationship, i think, the bottom has to have more trust in the top than the top needs trust in the bottom.  Mainly because the top is not the one who's very life is being held in someone else's hand.  It's hard to fully surrender yourself to the play if you are terrified you're going home in a body bag.  And being in a new relationship myself at this very moment, i think that kinda qualifies me to say that.  If not, i'm sorry but i don't agree.  Once the inital trust and confidence is there, however, i think that "enough from both sides" is a fairly accurate depiction of what needs to happen.  Tops need to have the confidence to know what they are doing, who they are doing it to, and to know that if they make a mistake the trust that their bottom has with them is going to see them through it.  Where that's concerned, communication is huge.  From what i've seen communication is huge regardless and it's kind of shocking to see that no one else has brought it up.  Communication is where the confidence and trust in each other will come from, in my experiance at least.

Right now i'm going to interject that, as with most people, all of this is strickly from my own experiance, and some will no doubt think i'm full of it or ignorant......in some cases both.  And if shown otherwise i'll gladly admit them right.

From the bottoms perspective on the whole thing, after a relationship is formed and trust has been tested, hopefully that trust will do nothing but grow.  In our own lil "trouple", i'd like to think that even if Steel did something that ended up "harming" me, that the trust i have in him would pull us through it.  Simply put that is because i do trust him, with my life, and that i know even though this relationship is still pretty new and we are still learning a lot about each other every day.....he isn't a "sociopath" and doesn't want to kill me (yet ~grinz~).  All in all i completely agree with andi, and knowing exactly where she is coming from, i do it whole heartedly.

"Mind you I am not saying that switches don't exist I just have a problem with the idea that someone can be completely Dominant and completely submissive without bleed-through from one or the other source."
 
Forgiveness please, but i feel an incessant need to comment on this....~looks around innocently~...wonder why? 

In this i don't think that switches are completely Dominant or completely Submissive.  Mainly because i know where my lil arse rests and i'm not either.  In my own personal little warpped perception, switches are a hair of both.....and even a whole lot more of one than another.  On this site, and in the real world, i lable myself a Switch.  This doesn't mean that i'm not a good submissive to Steel, andi and i both hear we are "good girls" too often to think that i'm not.  What it means is, while i'm most comfortable with a collar around my neck and answering to someone else (not to mention being on the recieving end of a flogger.....), there are times where a wild hair gets up my cute lil bum.  There are times, and it varies on span of time and how often in which that wild hair remains there, that i not only want but need the control.  For the most part this is bedroom play only, and being in the relationship i'm in now any wild hairs that manage to work their way up my bum, that's the direction that need would be taken out in anyway.  At my job i have the control because i have to, the management i work with.....let's just suffice it to say that they couldn't find their way out of paper bags with maps and flashlights most of the time, k?  With my midget i also have to, being divorced means when she's with me i have to regardless of whether i want to or not.  In past relationships i had the control because not only did i want it, but i doubt they would have lasted as long as they did should i have given to the surrender.....Of course this goes back to the trust and confidence issue.....of which i did not have it in them, nor did they have it in themselves.

But that's just what i think.
lil bit




LillyoftheVally -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/12/2009 3:01:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelslilbit

From the bottoms perspective on the whole thing, after a relationship is formed and trust has been tested, hopefully that trust will do nothing but grow. In our own lil "trouple", i'd like to think that even if Steel did something that ended up "harming" me, that the trust i have in him would pull us through it. Simply put that is because i do trust him, with my life, and that i know even though this relationship is still pretty new and we are still learning a lot about each other every day.....he isn't a "sociopath" and doesn't want to kill me (yet ~grinz~). All in all i completely agree with andi, and knowing exactly where she is coming from, i do it whole heartedly.



In my opinion it totally depends on how the harm is done. I tend to be quite a trusting person generally and give people the benefit of the doubt until they prove to me that they do not deserve it. I know many do not do it this way. However if he was to cause me 'harm' accidentally, then yes like you it is something you can pull through yet if he was to cause me harm by ignorance, not knowing what he is doing or not thinking properly then sorry I would loose both trust and respect for him instantly.

On a general point, I do not agree that it is more important that I trust him than he me, he needs that security also he needs to trust I will tell him how I am feeling to feel confident enough.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Confidence - Which side of the flogger requires more? (8/12/2009 5:01:21 PM)

quote:

first off i would like to say that, like Lady Pact, i would have loved to have been there for the original conversation. but thank you Merc for bringing it to the bords.
Well, trust me, when you come out in a few weeks, we'll have plenty of opportunity, with Lady Pact there I hope, to chat a bit. No matter how people represent themselves as 24/7, there is always some 'down-time' required to recharge, eat, drink, swim a bit, and re-stage the equipment which lends to people actually talking.

Although, as pointed out on another thread by Mr. P, be forewarned - we break just about every SSC rule and do just about everything listed on the list of "bad" associated with public "safe-play". Smoke, drink, swing toys outside in public, and use a 'love-swing' without a net; all just for the FUN of it. Good thing we have a big empty lot nextdoor for any "accidents".

Looking forward to seeing you all!



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