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RE: Going From Conventional to D/s - 2/23/2006 5:18:37 PM

SimplyV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

I found it incredibly incredibly frustrating to walk a conventional type start to our relationship, a less structured Master/slave path, or what i percieved to be as less structured, when all the while all i needed to do was submit, surrender to whatever path Master lead me on...he has taken me to a beautiful place within our Master/slave relationship and we are still walking....so looking back...it was good and probably the best way for Master to have handled it. I think the challenges were in my own mind, overcoming expectations that would have had me topping from the bottom. Damn i hope i have explained this well...

The plusses to the path of slavery Master took me on is I can relax and be myself all the while feeling the tug of my invisible leash that is always there..and the "yank" when Master so chooses.

jali.. how beautiful. You describe so well from a slave viewpoint my approach to this as a Dominant.

I like to start out on equal footing as just friends, lovers.. etc. Maybe its because I'm a switch, I don't know. I like to get a good feel for the other person, how they act and interact. What they like.. what they don't.. Things subs/slaves don't always tell or share with those in power over them. There is always that structure of D/s in an undercurrent with me. Whether they are wanting to sub to me or be my Dominant... if its going to happen it will happen naturally. If it doesn't happen naturally or isn't natural, it won't happen at all.

I don't like walking into a relationship with a formal BDSM structure at the start .. for the very reasons that Jali states.. Its too easy to get caught up in our expectations, rituals, rules and habits.. that we become stuck. Whether stuck as a sub, or stuck as a Dominant.. having to live up to the expectations we think are needed, when in fact they may just be superfluous.

I've always had an invisible leash on people.. even when I wasn't formally in BDSM relationships. I can still tug my ex's leash, which is probably why his wife hates me.

I like having that base of vanilla friendship to start things with... it helps ease my mind knowing that even if things don't work out, if something happens.. there is that solid base for us to return to and rebuild from.

In any case.. no matter how you start ... it won't matter if the trust, honesty, communication.. communication.. and communication isn't there.

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RE: Going From Conventional to D/s - 2/23/2006 5:45:47 PM

slaveladyj

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If I could get my life partner to move into a D's relationship, I'd be a very happy camper.

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RE: Going From Conventional to D/s - 2/23/2006 5:47:30 PM

truesub4u

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After alot of talking about this thread and my postings last night.. Master and I have done alot of talking. And I am.... no excuse me.... W/we are glad we start out in a more conventual relationship. Though he is in fact my Master.. and soon will by my husband as well.. we both like the idea... that we're going to have the best of both worlds now.. together.

Because of more non active ... informed... friends and family.. and kids.... we get to go with the more of simply knowing in our minds and hearts... that as to all.... we're husband and wife... but when W/we know.. he's Master... i'm his submissive... slave in training (grinzzzzzzzz)

This also give us a chance to work on my independent living problems.. smart ass remarks.. and to most.. Dominant side to be put to rest finally. So we're happy that things started out the way they have with us...

And we both wish you all the best with what ever route others may have taken..or will take with theirs....

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 2/23/2006 5:48:58 PM >

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RE: Going From Conventional to D/s - 2/23/2006 5:57:00 PM

JoeBlack

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We are still exploring what D/s means to us,our relationship began vanilla,and I tried to keep it a 50/50 deal.(much to the dismay of my partner).
Thru time and experience,I discovered my dominant side,and it has made a world of difference in a 20 year+ relationship.
This lifestyle has added depth,dimension and mutual satisfaction to our lives,now we can't imagine it otherwise...

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RE: Going From Conventional to D/s - 2/23/2006 6:27:16 PM

Vancouver_cinful

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This is a topic I struggle with. I just can't quite wrap my head around trying to have a vanilla relationship...not even just as a starting point.

If I'm interested in someone sexually, and romantically then I find myself responding in a submissive manner. Even if I hide it. It's there.

And hiding it is hiding part of myself...which just doesn't feel right.

Sub isn't ALL I am, of course, but there is no complete Me without the sub. Someone trying to get to know me romantically without experiencing the sub part of me isn't going to know me at all.

As a matter of fact, I don't see my submissiveness as anything more than the way I express love. It manifests itself in different forms depending on the relationship (family, friends, lovers, my students...), but it's there.

There are definitely obstacles to starting out D/s, but the alternative just seems to be worse for me. I can't let my natural feelings develop for someone if i have to suppress my natural instinct to submit.

Not sure I've stated this in a way that makes sense...perhaps it's like a fish trying to describe wet. ::laughing::

Cin

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RE: Going From Conventional to D/s - 2/23/2006 6:39:55 PM

truesub4u

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Actually makes more sense than you think....

When Master and I started out.. I so much wanted to tell him.. but didn't think he was the type. And when we got sexual... I try to express this side of me.. hoping he would find pleasure in it.. and not realize my submission.. but would except my pleasures I was giving him....

Now that we both know about each other... whewwwwwwwwww

I don't have to hide no more.. because I was really starting to feel trapped... let alone I felt I was not being myslf... or lying to him about something.... Glad that's all over with now.

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RE: Going From Conventional to D/s - 2/23/2006 7:44:36 PM

Driver1961

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He enters, dips His lid to all..............

Excellent THREAD.

Slavejali- I basically concur with all your comments and may well think similarly to your Master. Asa poly Dominant I entered both my relationships almost simultaneously with the D/s dynamic. Angel had been D/s 24/7 with her husband for some 9 yrs (deceased). Wild had researched the BDSM sites thoroughly yet not entered into a D/s relationship.

My approach to both girls prior to 'Consideration Collars' was consistant. We played/scened D/s with nilla but conversed very nilla wise. The purpose being for me to evaluate them as functioning people, as being worthy of investment in long term intimacy. (I am looking for real and healthy relationships with a heavy D/s dynamic)

This approach was very difficult for 'Angel' (with her prior long term experience of her husband) however for 'Wild' was less confusing. Communication was at all times open on all issues not just D/s. Since accepting my 'Consideration Collars' Angel still experiences confusion. I expect a heavy D/s dynamic at a word or gesture moment generally in private. At all other times I expect a confident, capable, equal that I can converse with. This confusion is not with 'Wild' however as she has no other D/s dynamic relationship (except abusive Sadistic relationships) for comparison and she sees the strength in the health and respect of our relationship.

Maybe........it occurs to me that if I could explainthis well enough, I have elements of both relationships that are questioned here except that they were begun with the D/s dynamic.

The bottom line is that it is very important to me that I see both girls (or any girl for that matter) as being EQUAL to me outside of the expressed D/s dynamic. This may be a very difficult task for some previously experienced subs/slaves owing to their Previous Sir/Masters expectations. THey must be able to function alone knowing that I stand beside them in daily life matters with partner and if necessary Dom support.

I trust I have somehow made my points and would not be offended if asked to better explain..........

I recognise the typo errors but have a small problem here.

Warm regards to all, (Sir) Paul to 'Angel' and 'Wild'.

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RE: Going From Conventional to D/s - 2/23/2006 7:57:31 PM

slavejali

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I think one of the things your saying Sir, is that a girl who has already been a slave to another comes "conditioned" with their previous Masters way..so to give that breathing space by having a somewhat vanilla dynamic at first when moving into the next relationship can alleviate that conditioning?

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RE: Going From Conventional to D/s - 2/23/2006 9:19:46 PM

cacodylic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
<snip> Which would you find easier, an already established conventional relationship that starts having a more D/s structure or a relationship that starts out with a formal D/s structure? For those who may have experienced both what are the different challenges to each?
Knight's kyra

Well, neither approach has been all that easy in my experience. My one attempt at beginning with a formal D/s structure [with a far-more BDSM-experienced partner] went south after 5 months. I wanted the 'conventional' aspect too, but she was totally living in Dommeville.
As for the other approach, two [ex]wives and several gf's just didn't want to get into D/s at all, and the third ex tried but clearly wasn't into it. One ex-gf was really into it, but scared me off with her temper. We're still friends, I find myself wishing I had stayed the course.... And one other ex-gf just played along while she bled me dry.
As I read the profiles on CM, only a tiny [2%] fraction of them hold any real interest at all, and inevitably they're a couple thousand miles away. It looks
like a tossup at this point whether I find someone here first and see what happens, or find a vanilla relationship and see what happens down the road there. Either way, I expect it's going to take a good bit of time...

PS: another great thread!

< Message edited by cacodylic -- 2/23/2006 10:12:04 PM >

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RE: Going From Conventional to D/s - 2/23/2006 10:29:03 PM

denika

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Joined: 8/30/2005
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kyra

I think it's because Rob and I have such a diffrent structure to our relationship. To Rob I am his wife, his friend, his lover, his partner. All equal. He is a really big kid at heart so taking him seriously at times is hard work. With Knight I know my place, He comes first, His wants, His needs and even when we are together in a group Rob knows that I will defer to Knight Rob is a perv, lol that is his kink.He enjoys my submission to Knight, knowing it makes me happy. Rob and I have had a lot of long talks about the subject and he really has tried in the past to take on a more dominate role in our relationship but he wan't being true to his nature and that wasn't fair for him.

We definatly don't have a conventional relationship in the sense of what sociaty considers normal. But then really what is normal? *s* Knight, alandra, yourself fill a big part of our life, my relationship with Him completes a part of myself just as much as Rob does. They both help me to strive to be a better person. Rob is the guy that likes to come up with twisted idea's for Him to do to us, lol. Then he can sit back and watch *s*

denika
lol 15 years later and I am still trying to figure Rob out myself *ss* but his ability to make me laugh and feel safe and loved far exeeds my need for him to be something he is not. I'm just lucky he puts up with me *ss* and my dirty socks everywhere . heehee

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RE: Going From Conventional to D/s - 2/24/2006 2:38:59 AM

phoenix1

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Him/Master, me/slave ... pretty simple for us...

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RE: Going From Conventional to D/s - 2/24/2006 2:54:44 AM

Driver1961

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He enters, dips His lid.

To Slavejali's question/clarification- yes. My behaviour towards a new but previously experienced sub is to decondition them and see me.

I am at pains to be accepted for whom I am as a Dom. The good and the bad, the romantic, the thinker, the rationalist who appears irrational to others. The flirt, the gentleman. I don't wish to be thought of as some autocrat without reason. I enjoy the, and display a spontaneity of life. These elements are of importance to me for acceptance as a Dom in a significant other's life.

I certainly will never demand submission but ACCEPT another's submission for the strength and vitality they see in me.

Warm regards to all, (Sir) Paul. to "Angel" and "Wild".

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RE: Going From Conventional to D/s - 2/24/2006 2:55:53 AM

SimplyV

Posts: 351
Joined: 11/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful

This is a topic I struggle with. I just can't quite wrap my head around trying to have a vanilla relationship...not even just as a starting point.

If I'm interested in someone sexually, and romantically then I find myself responding in a submissive manner. Even if I hide it. It's there.

And hiding it is hiding part of myself...which just doesn't feel right.

Sub isn't ALL I am, of course, but there is no complete Me without the sub. Someone trying to get to know me romantically without experiencing the sub part of me isn't going to know me at all.

As a matter of fact, I don't see my submissiveness as anything more than the way I express love. It manifests itself in different forms depending on the relationship (family, friends, lovers, my students...), but it's there.

There are definitely obstacles to starting out D/s, but the alternative just seems to be worse for me. I can't let my natural feelings develop for someone if i have to suppress my natural instinct to submit.

Not sure I've stated this in a way that makes sense...perhaps it's like a fish trying to describe wet. ::laughing::

Cin

I don't think any of us really leave our Dominant or submissive parts at the door in a vanilla relationship. For me there is always that undercurrent, its who I am. Whether I'm at work, the grocery store, or with family.. its always present.

When I start a new relationship.. however vanilla-esque at the start.. I am who I am with that person. Sometimes Dominant or sometimes submissive depends on how they "rub" me so to speak.

To me Dominance is more than getting the other person on their knees. Submission is more than kneeling... or any other BDSM activity. You don't have to do BDSM activities to be Dominant or submissive.

Also on the subject of submitting.. you can submit all you want, but you must have something to submit to.. Are you saying you can't have feelings for someone who doesn't boss you around?

I guess its all a matter of perspective.

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RE: Going From Conventional to D/s - 2/24/2006 8:37:21 AM

Submotive

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quote:

To my shock, when we finally met, Master was on the go slow. He informed me that He didnt just want a slave, he wanted a lasting relationship. This sent me into all kinds of confusion. I didnt know what to do, what to say or how to act. i had expected him to come roaring into my life and take me, completely....i dont really know what it was i imagined that should have happened, but whatever it was, it didnt.

He took me along a road of romance. He picked flowers for me as we were walking along, danced with me in the street, left love notes on my pillow, cooked me gourmet dinners. He told me to get up when i kneeled, cuddled me watching movies, He never pushed me to do anything.

He kept telling me "There is no need to rush, we have all the time in the world"

Thank you slavejali. If you've helped no one else, you've helped me. i have met One Who moves very slowly and yes i have so many preconceived notions about D/s. Learning to allow it to unfold itself rather than seeking to mold it to my perceptions. Learning to be controlled, rather than pretending to be controlled.

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