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PeonForHer -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/17/2009 4:36:18 AM)
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La T,
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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
Peon, No my post was not directed at you. Though if the shoe fits.
In that case, I apologise if I read into it a tone that was more personal than I needed to have done.
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Myself, I cannot even imagine even thinking about demanding any sort of material anything, from someone I was considering. (Aside from living expenses if they live with me) But I have used it to chase off persistent male s-types that are convinced I am interesting in their services. (example:"what difference does it make if it is a man's tongue or a woman's tongue in your ass?"). Knowing that most guys run like the wind at the mention of spending money for no sexual return.
My point is, MOST lifestyle dominant women do NOT ask for any sort of material "tribute". At least not those I know. However, a male submissive that appears to obsess about that aspect and rant on and on about it, makes himself appear less than attractive because of his constant ranting about it. It make him appear cheap, like he is expecting everything for nothing. EVEN if that is not the case. I never said you, or any of the other guys were cheap, just saying that the constant fussing about the subject, sometimes makes you look that way. You are so obsessed with seeing the issue through your own green coloured glasses, you entirely missed my point.
I don't know what 'green glasses' are. A google-search for me again . . . [;)]
I think one of the reasons that certain men - myself included - get quite angry about this subject is that the accusation of 'whining, penny-pinching sub males' is alien to us. Even to think in terms of 'money for sexual return' is tasteless. It's not part of the world in which we live. What you see as "fussing about 'fair returns'" by subs is quite possibly shock and outrage. I'd never even thought about such things in relation to romantic partnerships before I saw threads like this on CM. I'll bet many men hadn't.
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As for vanilla dating. If you think dating vanilla will remove the whole tribute factor, good luck with that. The ONLY difference, and baby I know LOTS of hetro vanilla women, is that the dominant women are sometimes more honest about it. The vanilla just use stealth. You are not going to escape the issue, just the forthright demand.
Perhaps I should explain: thus far I've dated only vanilla women. There were more than a few of them, too.
I don't recognise what you say here. Women I've dated simply haven't been like that - not even subtly and surreptitiously. They'd all be somewhat insulted at being characterised that way, too. I don't see that dominant women need be any different, and indeed know that many (if not most) aren't.
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As for my own personal opinion. It doesn't matter. If a woman is honest about her expectations and a man is willing to fork it out, more power to her. It has been part of humanity since the beginning.
There have been great courtesans since the beginning of time. Some were very powerful women that rose above the gender limitations of their time to have great influence on the men in their lives and the world around them. Some used their power for good and others, less so. Regardless, if an adult man is going to submit to a woman, he is responsible for making that choice. It takes two. (or more)
More power to both sides in such arrangements. Who cares, so long as these sorts of relationships are honestly negotiated? Pro-dommes/tribute dommes, and their clients, seem to work amicably with each other, for the most part. Fine for them and I cast no moral aspersions on what they do. But, again, it's not part of my world now and won't be in the future.
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It has been during this self imposed learning process, that I realized that my opinion of the men that constantly bashed, was becoming more negative. I looked at it and thought I would share that outlook, for the men's benefit. Thinking that they, with a little self introspection, could realize that they are just shooting themself in the foot. Because, as I said, I really have no stake in this one way or another.
Again, I'd strongly suggest: Be careful not to project and thereby misread the source of the feeling. When you say 'knowing that most guys run like the wind at the mention of spending money for no sexual return' you're betraying a view of men that doesn't relate to myself nor to any of the men I know well. We don't want to feel ourselves to be either penny-pinching, or generous, clients of courtesans. We don't want to feel ourselves to be clients of courtesans at all.
With apologies for the way this next phrase is going to look: we want to feel ourselves to be gentlemen. However well-deserved some women may believe certain accusations to be, such allegations are still a great deal more insulting to many men than I think some women may realise.
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