RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE".....

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 3:31:19 PM)
That's just my point, La T. I don't ever want to be thinking in terms of 'returns for my investment', either. It's all tawdry and tasteless.

NoreenSwan -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 3:51:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SmartStrongSub Also, I would urge you to consider what it really means to be a slave, owned by another person. It means your time and labor belong to that person. The owner has a right to make demands upon you and those demands can be expressed in many ways, including the payment of tribute. When England was ruled by the Danes, the English paid an annual tribute to their Danish masters. Hard, yes. Reality, yes. That's what it means to be a slave. Agreed.

NoreenSwan -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 4:06:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SmartStrongSub Vanilla, D/s, it doesn't matter: cheap is cheap and ultimately it's the relationsip that counts. quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha quote: ORIGINAL: XYisInferior quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 Well, because they're different XY. When I am awooing a partner i am more than happy to pay for drinks or a meal e.t.c. However I would have no time whatsoever for a person that said to go on a date with them I would have to pay everything or that a minimum fee was needed to enjoy they're company. My personal time is fee enough. If others feel differently that is fair enough Xy but the difference between the two is there. So you don't have a problem paying; it's just that when She tells you that you will be paying, it becomes an issue. Fair enough. I go back to my original point. First, accept that MOST (not all) women (including femdoms) have some level of expectation of generosity (ie, paying for dinner if he asks her on a date, or bringing flowers as part of courtship) from men who pursue them. The guys that choose to "go dutch" or consider all these women "gold diggers" because they expect to be courted, are called cheap pinnypinchers by women who date them, and these women don't go on second dates with them. That's how it works in the vanilla world. The fact that dominant women state their expectations UP FRONT, however, is what the problem is? My vanilla girlfriend who was highly sought after by men when she was single used to call me up and tell me about her dates, and the guys that did not offer to pay for dinner were written off and they didn't get a second date. They were called "Cheap." I fight this debate passionately because I think sub guys often use the fear of being "duped" as an excuse to be cheap. Dominant women are up front about their expectations, and we clearly can tell the difference between, "Send me $20 via paypal if you want me to respond," and "I expect flowers on our first meeting, or a bottle of wine for us to shar," or a woman getting irritated that the guy didn't pick up dinner or ask her out on a proper date before expecting play or S&M...it's just CHEAP. Akasha Well true money is power so I have to think that maybe the sub balks at being told what to do with his money because she's taking away his power. Well, what are you getting into a power exchange relationship then? The sub must be confusing egalitarian vanilla relationships with d/s power exchange relationships. Or maybe they're looking not for an exchange of power relationship but maybe instead they're looking for a kinky equal partner where there isn't an exchange of power outside the sheets. In that case they should stick to telling a woman they're a "Bottom" so they won't have to deal with giving away any of their power outside of the bed.

PeonForHer -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 4:07:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SmartStrongSub Also, I would urge you to consider what it really means to be a slave, owned by another person. It means your time and labor belong to that person. The owner has a right to make demands upon you and those demands can be expressed in many ways, including the payment of tribute. When England was ruled by the Danes, the English paid an annual tribute to their Danish masters. Hard, yes. Reality, yes. That's what it means to be a slave. quote: NoreenSwan Agreed. . . . . Though SmartStrongSub was talking about true slavery. In true slavery, there's no element of choice involved, you don't generally want to be a slave, and you hate the people who've enslaved you. It isn't realistic to compare this with the BDSM version of slavery.

NoreenSwan -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 4:17:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer . . . . Though SmartStrongSub was talking about true slavery. In true slavery, there's no element of choice involved, you don't generally want to be a slave, and you hate the people who've enslaved you. It isn't realistic to compare this with the BDSM version of slavery. quote: ORIGINAL: SmartStrongSub Also, I would urge you to consider what it really means to be a slave, owned by another person. It means your time and labor belong to that person. The owner has a right to make demands upon you and those demands can be expressed in many ways, including the payment of tribute. When England was ruled by the Danes, the English paid an annual tribute to their Danish masters. Hard, yes. Reality, yes. That's what it means to be a slave. No, he was talking about consensual slavery, I'm sure. It's ignorant to assume BDSM slavery doesn't reach a level of submission where the submissive willingly gives up his power, labor and time to a woman of his choice.

poeticfreak -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 4:23:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I fight this debate passionately because I think sub guys often use the fear of being "duped" as an excuse to be cheap. Dominant women are up front about their expectations, and we clearly can tell the difference between, "Send me $20 via paypal if you want me to respond," and "I expect flowers on our first meeting, or a bottle of wine for us to shar," or a woman getting irritated that the guy didn't pick up dinner or ask her out on a proper date before expecting play or S&M...it's just CHEAP. Do sub guys really 'use the fear of being "duped" as an excuse to be cheap'? Again, this all seems alien to me, and I bet I'm not the only one. Hell. The moment that the question of 'who pays what' even enters into my thoughts, a date's ruined. It's just tawdry and tasteless. unfortunately in the context of this particular topic being labeled as cheap usually equates to being unwilling to meet demands for extravagant gifts for someone you've only recently met and are still becoming acquainted with

PeonForHer -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 4:38:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NoreenSwan quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer . . . . Though SmartStrongSub was talking about true slavery. In true slavery, there's no element of choice involved, you don't generally want to be a slave, and you hate the people who've enslaved you. It isn't realistic to compare this with the BDSM version of slavery. quote: ORIGINAL: SmartStrongSub Also, I would urge you to consider what it really means to be a slave, owned by another person. It means your time and labor belong to that person. The owner has a right to make demands upon you and those demands can be expressed in many ways, including the payment of tribute. When England was ruled by the Danes, the English paid an annual tribute to their Danish masters. Hard, yes. Reality, yes. That's what it means to be a slave. No, he was talking about consensual slavery, I'm sure. It's ignorant to assume BDSM slavery doesn't reach a level of submission where the submissive willingly gives up his power, labor and time to a woman of his choice. No, he wasn't talking about consensual slavery. He was talking about the Danes' enslavement of (part of) England. This did not involve willingness. That kind of slavery isn't comparable to BDSM slavery. That kind of slavery is horrific, still exists, and it's ignorant to assume that it compares with BDSM slavery.

PeonForHer -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 4:48:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: poeticfreak quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I fight this debate passionately because I think sub guys often use the fear of being "duped" as an excuse to be cheap. Dominant women are up front about their expectations, and we clearly can tell the difference between, "Send me $20 via paypal if you want me to respond," and "I expect flowers on our first meeting, or a bottle of wine for us to shar," or a woman getting irritated that the guy didn't pick up dinner or ask her out on a proper date before expecting play or S&M...it's just CHEAP. Do sub guys really 'use the fear of being "duped" as an excuse to be cheap'? Again, this all seems alien to me, and I bet I'm not the only one. Hell. The moment that the question of 'who pays what' even enters into my thoughts, a date's ruined. It's just tawdry and tasteless. unfortunately in the context of this particular topic being labeled as cheap usually equates to being unwilling to meet demands for extravagant gifts for someone you've only recently met and are still becoming acquainted with No, I can't agree, poeticfreak. I think this thread has polarised positions - as threads on 'tributes', 'gifts' and 'fairness in financial arrangements' between Domme and sub nearly always do. I've spoken, at length, to a fair few dommes since I've been on CM. They're just not like that. They wouldn't recognise themselves in your characterisation, and I don't recognise it in them, either.

poeticfreak -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 5:06:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: poeticfreak quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I fight this debate passionately because I think sub guys often use the fear of being "duped" as an excuse to be cheap. Dominant women are up front about their expectations, and we clearly can tell the difference between, "Send me $20 via paypal if you want me to respond," and "I expect flowers on our first meeting, or a bottle of wine for us to shar," or a woman getting irritated that the guy didn't pick up dinner or ask her out on a proper date before expecting play or S&M...it's just CHEAP. Do sub guys really 'use the fear of being "duped" as an excuse to be cheap'? Again, this all seems alien to me, and I bet I'm not the only one. Hell. The moment that the question of 'who pays what' even enters into my thoughts, a date's ruined. It's just tawdry and tasteless. unfortunately in the context of this particular topic being labeled as cheap usually equates to being unwilling to meet demands for extravagant gifts for someone you've only recently met and are still becoming acquainted with No, I can't agree, poeticfreak. I think this thread has polarised positions - as threads on 'tributes', 'gifts' and 'fairness in financial arrangements' between Domme and sub nearly always do. I've spoken, at length, to a fair few dommes since I've been on CM. They're just not like that. They wouldn't recognise themselves in your characterisation, and I don't recognise it in them, either. you're right most aren't like that, but i've found it's usually a fitting description for those who are loudly complaining about subs being cheap or fake. those who don't fit into that characterization and find someone to be cheap tend to just quietly write them off and continue the search

thishereboi -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 6:04:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen HA! MsKitty said doing the cat litter. boi yea, cat litter.....hard limit. note: cat litter on a regular basis, I have been talked into it a time or two, but it's rare.

Andalusite -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 6:48:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: poeticfreak unfortunately in the context of this particular topic being labeled as cheap usually equates to being unwilling to meet demands for extravagant gifts for someone you've only recently met and are still becoming acquainted with When I was looking, I didn't consider men I met to be cheap or tightfisted if they took me out to just coffee, or for a sandwich at Subway, or somewhere free (lots of museums, concerts, etc. are free or under $10). If they took me out to a nice restaurant and then asked me to go Dutch, or if they complained about women being high maintenance/too expensive to date, so they only wanted a playpartner instead of a girlfriend, then they came across as tightwads.

SmartStrongSub -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 7:20:14 PM)
First, being a historian, I am constrained to point out that your premise is factually incorrect. Slavery has existed for entirety of human history and is often a conditioned assumed by the individual slave or even whole tribes for their needs, economic (I will be your slave if you feed me) or political (we will be your slaves if you protect us). This may not seem inheirently fair but it is a reality of the human condition and when one considers the fact that both parties obtain the benefit they chose it becomes clearer taht there is nothing unfair about it. In the old law books, employment law is referred to as "Master/Servant" law. Is it unfair that a senior partner in a law firm (the Master) takes home money earned by a lowly associate attorney (the Servant)? Doesn't the partner have an ownership interest in the money earned by his associate? Isn't that a nice way of saying he owns the time and labor of the associate? Does it matter if it is a condition compelled by the associates school debts? As for bdsm slavery, in my experience, the male slave surrenders himself to the Female because of his needs, those being his natural desires for Her leadership, Her discipline, and Her femininity. In exchange, he agrees to become Her slave, subject to Her direction and control, and owned by Her! If one owns a vinyard does one not get the grapes it produces? If one owns a machine or truck, does one not get the rental value for its use? In genuine bdsm Owner/slave relationships, both parties understand that slavery means ownership, and ownership means having a right to the time and labor of the slave. This legitimate right can be expressed in many ways, through actual work, as I did when I was owned while in school, or to payment of money which we have been calling tribute. I regret if you have not experienced the full joy of slavery. Without it, the rest of all of these activites are just play and play is for those too timid to risk the real thing. quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: SmartStrongSub Also, I would urge you to consider what it really means to be a slave, owned by another person. It means your time and labor belong to that person. The owner has a right to make demands upon you and those demands can be expressed in many ways, including the payment of tribute. When England was ruled by the Danes, the English paid an annual tribute to their Danish masters. Hard, yes. Reality, yes. That's what it means to be a slave. quote: NoreenSwan Agreed. . . . . Though SmartStrongSub was talking about true slavery. In true slavery, there's no element of choice involved, you don't generally want to be a slave, and you hate the people who've enslaved you. It isn't realistic to compare this with the BDSM version of slavery.

RedMagic1 -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 7:30:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SmartStrongSub play is for those too timid to risk the real thing. Or perhaps the desire to abdicate choice is motivated by escapism and irresponsibility. Some of us insist that we and our partners take personal responsibility for improving the world. There are a LOT of things that are more important than getting your kink on. When you post that way, though, you sound unable to see that a big world exists past your fetishy desires.

Lockit -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 7:46:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer That's just my point, La T. I don't ever want to be thinking in terms of 'returns for my investment', either. It's all tawdry and tasteless. Would this be a bad time for me to confess that I am often tawdry and sometimes tasteless and neither has anything to do with a gift or monitary value?

MistressSassy66 -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 8:05:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TexasMaam I get so very weary of reading the tired old lambasts against 'tribute' here on these boards. I'm usually not one to brag or boast, because I like to keep My sub's cards close to My chest, but I just had to share tonight's experience for those Dommes who are bombarded by whiney, wimpy, pathetic drips who have NO clue what it is to support the kind of woman they long to serve. Tonight, when I entered the room where he sat cooling off from a much deserved shower, (for, you see, he'd been at My best 4ever g.friend's home fixing her AC earlier this afternoon....at his own expense...) I traipsed into the room to find a collection of 5 brand new floggers arrayed on the bed for My approval. Long falls, short falls, thick falls, razor thin falls, heavy floggers, light and easy to handle floggers, leather handles, steel handles, split hide, full grain hide, elk hide.....each with a bite or pummel or caress all it's own.......and next to these beautiful new floggers were arranged three pyrex glass dildos for My pleasure, along with two double ended dildo's for anal/vaginal mutually satisfying penetration, next to a double set of leather paddles, one light, one heavy, ....all brand new presents just to make Me smile and to enjoy having some adult fun with WIITWD. I still had the dog food and cattle feed in the trunk of My car that he picked up yesterday, for My/our animals, at his expense, along with money he provided for the ever skyrocketing light bill, and for groceries, that he sends Me every single month, without complaint. That, in addition to the funds he'd provided to help a family member who was out of a job relocate for a lifeline in a new town with a new chance at a new career. Not to mention the monies he contributed in July for prescriptions and copays for that elderly relative turning senile who needs medical care 24/7. Not to mention the new suit on My back, the hairstyle he paid for, the matching (or contrasting) shoes, or the purse, or the lingerie I'm wearing beneath today's ensemble....all gifts from My manthing. I clasped My hands with delight at the sight of the collection of floggers on the bed, while he whispered, 'what's that fragrance You're wearing, it's wonderful?!' even though he knows full well it's the Burberry Britt he brought back from the duty free shop in Dubai just a few months ago. He passionately kissed my cheek and nuzzled the earlobes where his gold earrings glittered, the ones he brought back from that Dubai trip. I touched his gold necklace, the heavyweight symbolic collar he wears to denote his service to Me, and I greedily, hungrily picked up first this flogger, then that one, and tried them out, each one in turn, on his tender skin. He rolled his shoulders forward and stood motionless, mesmerized by the anticipation of a painful but stimulating session in the offing. I must have orgasmed 20 times, between the floggers and paddles making me hot as melted wax and the new toys that found every g spot we could both possibly discover. Afterwards, in a heap of exhausted bliss, he whispered to Me that the 'car deal' went through, and tells me while nuzzling My breasts that the new high-mileage-import-mini-SUV-I've-been-dreaming-of-as-the-perfect-dog-show/cattle-show/handicapped-relative-transport-vehicle has been approved and finalized and is on it's way to My door for My exclusive use and possession next week, while he makes the payments, pays the insurance, tax, title and license for Me..... I could never thank you, manthing, for everything you do for Me, every day, in every way, to let Me know how much you care, how much you love Me, how much you appreciate and cherish our relationship. I love you. Thank you, from the bottom of My heart. ....and the rest of you whiney, petulant, selfish, self absorbed limpdicks can sit up and take notice of how a 'real man' pays tribute to his Domme! That's how it's done. Texas Maam ....oh, and if you're some broken winged pigeon that this manthing happens to pay a compliment to online, please, don't email Me, just consider yourself lucky, and be sure you keep your distance..... When slave janet was here,he did that exact type of stuff. he would go to the store before I got up and would bring home My favorite kind of donuts,just because he knows I love them. Make mac and cheese when I was feeling down,My favorite comfort food.he bought things for the house he bought things for the dungeon.I appreciated those little things and he knows it. Unfortunately,he crossed the line of trying to be the Top and I took My collar back,just 4 days ago. Dang it all. [sm=sad.gif] I hope I can find someone like slave janet,but not too much like him.

SmartStrongSub -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 8:28:32 PM)
If anyone chooses slavery as an escape from responsibility he will have chosen very unwisely. A slave finds himself with all the burdens he had before and those imposed by his owner. A dedicated owner will hold the slave responsible for his performance in all areas of his life and that includes the slave's obligations to contribute to the improvement of the "big world". I perform much more volunteer work and pro bono work when owned then I have ever done in my free years. An owner will take pride in a slave for those efforts and it will please the slave to make Her proud. quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: SmartStrongSub play is for those too timid to risk the real thing. Or perhaps the desire to abdicate choice is motivated by escapism and irresponsibility. Some of us insist that we and our partners take personal responsibility for improving the world. There are a LOT of things that are more important than getting your kink on. When you post that way, though, you sound unable to see that a big world exists past your fetishy desires.

RedMagic1 -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 8:55:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SmartStrongSub I perform much more volunteer work and pro bono work when owned then I have ever done in my free years. WTF? You think people only deserve your help when you're getting your freak on? The more you post, the grosser this sounds. Either something's worth doing, or it's not. Am I correct in assuming you are presently unowned? Before, you just sounded self-righteous. Now you sound self-absorbed.

NoreenSwan -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 9:05:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 WTF? You think people only deserve your help when you're getting your freak on? The more you post, the grosser this sounds. Either something's worth doing, or it's not. Am I correct in assuming you are presently unowned? Before, you just sounded self-righteous. Now you sound self-absorbed. Goodness, what is up with all this personal attacking? You sound like a ranting troll. No need to get so snarky. Calm down and show some restraint. The personal attacks make you look weak.

ModeratorEleven -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 9:27:30 PM)
Settle down, people. XI

XYisInferior -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/18/2009 10:01:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 WTF? You think people only deserve your help when you're getting your freak on? "Freak on"? Goodness. It's colorful expressions like this from people here (who one would think should know better) that make me question just how seriously they take D/s. It's all freaky sex, funny outfits and kinky fetishes, right? Uh huh.

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