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MarcEsadrian -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE...THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE" (8/20/2009 4:51:14 PM)
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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
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ORIGINAL: SmartStrongSub
First, I must say, I admire the depth of thought, the degree of education, and clarity of articulation marcesadrian has brought to this conversation. It seems that when pressed with lucid thought and precise expression even those who have bantered back and forth for days now must concede that genuine bdsm slavery is a reality that one can fully experience in a sincere relationship. I hope we all find the courage to explore that wonderful and fearsome territory.
Yes, MarcEsadrian was helpful in demonstrating to me, once again, why two fundamentally different meanings of the word 'slavery' shouldn't be lumped together.
I will admit that I was confused, however, when you wrote in post #364:
"In true slavery, there's no element of choice involved, you don't generally want to be a slave, and you hate the people who enslaved you. It isn't realistic to compare this with the BDSM version of slavery."
That phrasing would indicate to me you see a "true" slavery in, for example, the Roman model, and an "untrue" slavery in the modern consensual model. I'm pleased to see you articulated your views further to counter that, lest we misinterpret what you were saying, and I'm honored to have helped.
P.s.
As for the feudalistic history of Denmark, I admit I'm not well read on it. But extending the Roman model, yes, slavery was a ubiquitous, and certainly often cruel economic reality in the days of the Roman republic. Though this is so, it's important to note that many slaves were considered part of the Master's family and took part in sacred family rituals (discounting the idea that in real slavery you always hate your owners). Slaves could own money and buy their way out of their caste (discounting the truism that all legitimate historical models never allowed a way for a slave to escape his status). A slave constitution called Lex Petronia was later created to protect slaves from cruel treatment. It's perhaps important to additionally note that slaves in Rome were not always savaged laborers sent to the mines or galleys for a slow death, either. They were scribes, architects, artists, musicians, (sometimes) soldiers, house servants, agents, business managers and manifest in just about every possible form of human talent or need.
What, you may ask, am I getting at here? Perhaps to point out that even the good old days of true slavery were as complex and as ironic as the personalities involved and difficult to sum up in absolute terms of barbarity.
P.p.s
History is always interesting, but can only serve as references, not the final word on realities of the present, which presents us with perpetually new landscape. The social mechanisms that produce slavery vary, but the service inherent in slavery is service nonetheless, whether it is by law, capture or consent—or any of the permutations in between. The end result of what slavery produces is (to me) more important; that one submits to and serves another wholly. Period.
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