RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE".....

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RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 9:18:04 AM

MmeRegineSybille

Posts: 36
Joined: 9/4/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: XYisInferior

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Thank you for your response. Sadly, I don't feel that I can match your wit, so at this point I think I'll withdraw from our conversation.

It's not about "matching wit", and if you think it is, you're not really engaging in discussion so much as trying to outsmart people with equivocation and whimsical gibberish. The ideas being railed against in this thread by the usual suspects are of an elementary D/s level, as Shakti astutely pointed out. This thread is needlessly long, but very revealing on a few fronts. I'll say that.

Most certainly. I and not here for a husband or a sexual partner. I come here because I enjoy using men. It makes Me hot when they spend money on Me. It makes Me hot when they beg and crawl. Few if any will ever be allowed entree' to My Castle. Doubtful any will ever touch Me. If they wish to serve Me, it will cost them.

(in reply to XYisInferior)

Post #: 921

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 9:45:31 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
Don't you need to like and respect someone in order to truly be friends, rather than merely friendly acquaintances?

Speaking for myself, I can be friends with someone who does seek tribute from their submissive.

To me, a demand that I must give some material offering in order to sustain the relationship feels disrespectful to me. And I feel that if two people like each other based on mutual attraction, it is not necessary to have tribute to keep the relationship together. I can grok the reason to do financial domination. I might even engage in this type of domination in the right relationship. But if someone puts that as an ultimatum--that if I don't give tribute the relationship is over--it would offend me and make me wonder about how the person really feels about me. The underlying message to me is that what I bring with my personality is not enough and I think I do bring enough. If it is not enough for a given person, then I'll consider myself incompatible rather than try to bribe the person to keep me around.

Thus, I find the question of tribute problematic for what it represents towards respect and liking one another. I could be friends with someone who takes tribute just as I can be friends with someone who does cuckoldry. It is not directed at me and I am fine if they do it with someone who also seeks it. If the tribute seems to come from a narcissistic place with this person, it is one datapoint. Narcissism is a trait that exists and people, friends, relatives have it to different degrees. The question would be what the overall person is like and what type of distance or closeness it suggests for me. The odds of taking interest in a person are less when the only or primary datapoint you have about them is narcissism, which is the case when you read a tribute-focused profile.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 922

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 9:52:58 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeRegineSybille
Most certainly. I and not here for a husband or a sexual partner. I come here because I enjoy using men. It makes Me hot when they spend money on Me. It makes Me hot when they beg and crawl. Few if any will ever be allowed entree' to My Castle. Doubtful any will ever touch Me. If they wish to serve Me, it will cost them.

And that's where some of the difference lies. Some of us do seek relationship partners. I imagine you have a separate partner who you turn to for companionship and relationship needs. Some of us do not by design seek separate partners for companionship, and for D/s. And for those of us who seek both in the same partner, that that is important for a companionship matters. If you do have a separate partner to whom you turn for companionship, do you ask that person for tribute? If you do have such a partner and do not ask for tribute there, what is the reason? I think the answer to this question might help you see why some people oppose the idea for their relationship.

Those who seek a relationship based on tribute with others who seek a relationship on tribute, fair enough. They should not tell those who do not practice tribute that they are deficient.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 9/4/2009 10:01:42 AM >

(in reply to MmeRegineSybille)

Post #: 923

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 9:57:50 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I got the 'this is still going' thought running through My brain. To be more accurate, I got the 'this thing is still going on and it's still this ugly' mentality.

I think it was Aakasha who said that if this is really what it's like out there for you being single, I'm glad I'm not out there. I have to echo that. I couldn't put up with this nonsense.

I don't think it's wrong that this topic is being discussed at length. It actually makes for an interesting topic for intellectual discussion--it touches upon philosophy, sociology, psychology, gender issues, more.

What I do wish was different about these discussions is the ugliness. I don't think the ugliness is necessary.

What do you think is causing the ugliness?

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 924

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 10:12:09 AM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

what most of the male submissives want, and the approaches they take to their search, are obviously incompatible with the majority of Dommes and switches who are seeking submissive partners, and vice versa.

I don't know how you reach that conclusion. Most of the Domme's I've had actual interactions with have had no trouble finding compatible partners, and they've had a wide range of guys to chose from to boot. They know how to laugh off internet lunacy and its crazy dating stuff.

As for the friends thing, I could be friends with a lot of people I could not date. Its a lower threshold altogether.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/4/2009 10:41:49 AM >

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 925

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 10:15:31 AM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

If its any consolation, the thread I started on this subject in the Gen BDSM forum died out after two pages.

Cheating threads have a lot of legs.....tho

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/4/2009 10:19:32 AM >

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 926

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 10:36:05 AM

Reigna

Posts: 334
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

What I do wish was different about these discussions is the ugliness. I don't think the ugliness is necessary.

What do you think is causing the ugliness?

Some people find it necessary to make others feel bad in order to feel better about themselves. It's really that simple.

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 927

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 10:48:03 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reigna
Some people find it necessary to make others feel bad in order to feel better about themselves. It's really that simple.

I think that is indeed playing a role here. I see a lot of finger pointing at subs, and lists of subs who are on the good list, and the like. I see the behavior or attempts to put down others to come from dommes and some subs who support tribute no less than it has come from those who oppose tribute.

I think a bigger, more fundamental reason is that people are feeling disrespected. I think greater breakthroughs can be had if the reasons for why people are feeling disrespected can be mutually understood and respected.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to Reigna)

Post #: 928

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 11:02:24 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

If its any consolation, the thread I started on this subject in the Gen BDSM forum died out after two pages.

Cheating threads have a lot of legs.....tho

Thanks for pointing out the thread. I will find it academically interesting as I reflect on the two different courses taken by the two threads.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 929

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 11:07:55 AM

Reigna

Posts: 334
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reigna
Some people find it necessary to make others feel bad in order to feel better about themselves. It's really that simple.

I think a bigger, more fundamental reason is that people are feeling disrespected. I think greater breakthroughs can be had if the reasons for why people are feeling disrespected can be mutually understood and respected.

Possibly. But this kind of ugliness is remarkably common in BDSM overall and not just in this thread. Horrifying amounts of passion, vitriol, and virtual ink are devoted to arguments about who's a true dominant/submissive; how ridiculous bedroom doms/subs are; who's just trolling for sex and who's for real. Something nasty is going on, far beyond the insults that have been slung in this thread. And that, I think, goes back to the simple fact that some people need to belittle others in order to build themselves up.

< Message edited by Reigna -- 9/4/2009 11:10:12 AM >

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 930

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 11:14:16 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reigna
Possibly. But this kind of ugliness is remarkably common in BDSM overall and not just in this thread. Horrifying amounts of passion, vitriol, and virtual ink are devoted to arguments about who's a true dominant/submissive; how ridiculous bedroom doms/subs are; who's just trolling for sex and who's for real. Something nasty is going on, far beyond the insults that have been slung in this thread. And that, I think, goes back to the simple fact that some people need to belittle others in order to build themselves up.

Point well made. Perhaps I am underestimating the role of the phenomenon you describe.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to Reigna)

Post #: 931

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 11:24:19 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Why doesn't he let the guy eat his lunch?

Because the guy won't give it to him willingly as tribute? ;-)

I think that was a well done, funny video. I have been joking that it's going to confuse some people when he says:

I'm a freakin dominate

People will think he is saying he is a dominate ;-)

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 932

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 11:31:03 AM

Reigna

Posts: 334
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

Point well made. Perhaps I am underestimating the role of the phenomenon you describe.

Thank you. I believe that it drives the vast majority of this kind of BS. And for what it may be worth--you know this--it is quite difficult to cause someone to feel disrespected who is not sociopathic but who is genuinely secure and confident.

< Message edited by Reigna -- 9/4/2009 11:32:30 AM >

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 933

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 11:39:15 AM

Venatrix

Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline

Reigna, I don't know that it's so much wanting to belittle others, but there are definitely some submissive men posting on this thread who need to have their hyper-inflated egos taken down a notch or two. These are the guys making rude, bellicose comments about how "No domme of mine better ever (fill in appropriate activity here) or else I'll really show her what's what." If these so-called subs really think that kind of attitude is appealing to a dominant woman I see no problem with taking the mickey out of them. Oddly enough, most of this posturing comes from men with little to offer in the first place (and I don't mean monetarily, I'm talking about willingness to serve), so I'm not sure why they think that copping an attitude will help their chances any.

I have absolutely no interest in a relationship that has money as a core component, but I have no problem with others who decide they want that sort of dynamic. Most of us agreed dozens of pages ago that the OP's phrasing of "this is how subs ought to do it" was perhaps unfortunate, at best, but a small core of malesubs decided to keep on bashing tribute dommes, and I think that's where a lot of the bashing back started. If tribute dommes aren't your thing, move on. Trying to convince us that femdoms aren't real dommes if they want tribute gets back to the playground mentality that ShaktiSama mentioned several posts ago.

(in reply to Reigna)

Post #: 934

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 11:44:53 AM

NoreenSwan

Posts: 117
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

Most of the men who are the loudest complainers on this subject, in various threads, are not fabulously wealthy themselves.

They just use money as one of many ways to assert equality in their relationships--and thus to withhold power from a potential domme in any power exchange.

I think there are some trust issues here that could probably be worked through very easily with the right domme. For me, though, this type of talk and attitude are just a turn-off.

It's a sign that someone not only HAS issues, but doesn't acknowledge and accept that these ARE issues that need to be worked on.

And there's nothing less attractive than damaged goods which don't want to be fixed.

That's fine if they do that: " They just use money as one of many ways to assert equality in their relationships--and thus to withhold power from a potential domme in any power exchange"

but they shouldn't be putting down the OP and her subby or other people who do submit on a level deeper than kink games. Why they get aggravated that a woman controls her subby's finances is odd. Why they are pissy that other men submit to deeper levels by giving away their money to the mistress is a mystery. Why do they care and are so unaccepting? And why do other women degrade domme women for controlling their subby's money? Jealousy because they can never get a subby to want to submit to that level so they put they women that can down.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

Post #: 935

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 11:46:10 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I got the 'this is still going' thought running through My brain. To be more accurate, I got the 'this thing is still going on and it's still this ugly' mentality.

I think it was Aakasha who said that if this is really what it's like out there for you being single, I'm glad I'm not out there. I have to echo that. I couldn't put up with this nonsense.

I don't think it's wrong that this topic is being discussed at length. It actually makes for an interesting topic for intellectual discussion--it touches upon philosophy, sociology, psychology, gender issues, more.

What I do wish was different about these discussions is the ugliness. I don't think the ugliness is necessary.

What do you think is causing the ugliness?

Cheers,

Sea

I think there are various reasons for it, Sea. The original could have been seen as such a wonderful story. On a personal level, I still see it as one, along with some others that have been told in this thread. TexasMaam never said that she demanded all of the floggers and toys that Manthing brought her that particular day. To Me, it honestly sounded like he was surprising her with them and they were both going to enjoy them in the context (and this is important) of their dynamic. Better yet, their long term dynamic.

The problem started with the insult. I think there were a number of male subs who felt attacked by it and lashed back for it. I think it was interpreted as they weren't able to compare on one level or another. Let's face it. We're not all on the same financial ground, and that can make some subs feel threatened. In turn, that breeded a little fear. That, of course, led to some indignation, so on and so on. I think some insecurity was linked to that, and it showed.

Don't think I'm seeing this as a one sided thing. Some of the females on the thread were spouting their own rhetoric. In some cases, it was just a good opportunity to have a target. I think when the responses got to the point where some were going on "I refuse to be financially dominated" the perfect reply was "I have the right to have that control". A good way to start a pissing contest just for the sake of having one.

Many of folks have denied it through the thread on both sides, but I still have the inclination to believe that some past not so happy experiences with those on the other side of the kneel have fueled what became this. Sprinkle in a good dose of the Dommes are all money grubbing and the subs are all worthless lines there. Neither of which leads to anyone's attractiveness.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 936

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 11:49:48 AM

NoreenSwan

Posts: 117
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SmartStrongSub

Everyone seems to agree generousity is a good thing, but when the words "financial tribute" appear generousity loses its appeal to some.

I think you should look beyond the catch phrases and consider the relationship.

How generousity is expressed in that relationship matters little and the terms that may used to described such offerings are unimportant.

Also, I would urge you to consider what it really means to be a slave, owned by another person.

It means your time and labor belong to that person. The owner has a right to make demands upon you and those demands can be expressed in many ways, including the payment of tribute.

Bumpity. Being a subby means you surrender to your mistress however she sees fit. If you don't like submitting outside the sheets, don't put down others that do give more of themselves to the mistress than you.

(in reply to SmartStrongSub)

Post #: 937

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 11:51:31 AM

NoreenSwan

Posts: 117
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

Most of us agreed dozens of pages ago that the OP's phrasing of "this is how subs ought to do it" was perhaps unfortunate, at best, but a small core of malesubs decided to keep on bashing tribute dommes, and I think that's where a lot of the bashing back started. If tribute dommes aren't your thing, move on. Trying to convince us that femdoms aren't real dommes if they want tribute gets back to the playground mentality that ShaktiSama mentioned several posts ago.

True.

(in reply to Venatrix)

Post #: 938

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 11:56:48 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reigna
Thank you. I believe that it drives the vast majority of this kind of BS. And for what it may be worth--you know this--it is quite difficult to cause someone to feel disrespected who is not sociopathic but who is genuinely secure and confident.

Perhaps the word disrespect is not conveying what I mean. Perhaps slight to ego better conveys that idea. It is not that the offensive action lessens one's esteem but that the thought behind the offensive action (as in it's the thought that counts) creates a sense of indignation. I think many people (across the population) respond negatively when they perceive a slight to ego, be it a direct slight, or be it an indirect slight via a group with which they identify. Being nasty upon being rejected comes from slight to ego. Being upset for not being invited to an event comes from slight to ego.

I think feeling the slight is fairly common. I think what varies more is how one responds to this slight. Some respond with an attack against the ego of the person who created the slight. There is a variety of other responses.

Indeed it takes security and confidence, as well as maturity of perspective to recognize whether or not what another has said or done has any meaningful significance, and whether to respond, or whether to ignore.

With time, it has become one of my objectives to better control my ego. I have a reasonably good wit and have a reasonably good way with words. I could easily lash out, be sarcastic, put someone down all the time. Sometimes I have abstained from making posts or reworded my posts for thinking they did nothing except serve the ego. Posts that serve the ego generally hinder communication because they attack the ego of the other and this attack on ego shuts out any communication. They make the ego feel better but they rarely improve the big picture. I don't claim to have this matter under control but I am glad to have established this objective. I will likely make posts that go against the objective I describe. But I am glad to know that each year I will move further in this direction.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to Reigna)

Post #: 939

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 9/4/2009 12:26:08 PM

Reigna

Posts: 334
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

I think many people (across the population) respond negatively when they perceive a slight to ego, be it a direct slight, or be it an indirect slight via a group with which they identify. Being nasty upon being rejected comes from slight to ego. Being upset for not being invited to an event comes from slight to ego.

I think feeling the slight is fairly common. I think what varies more is how one responds to this slight. Some respond with an attack against the ego of the person who created the slight. There is a variety of other responses.

Indeed it takes security and confidence, as well as maturity of perspective to recognize whether or not what another has said or done has any meaningful significance, and whether to respond, or whether to ignore.

Yes, you're right. I won't quibble over how indignant a person has to feel in order to be said to feel a slight to the ego. We've got enough angels dancing on heads of pins as it is. Forty-seven pages and counting, dayum!

Me, personally, I am working up quite a fetish for telling people to get the fuck over themselves.

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 940

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