ElanSubdued
Posts: 1511
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LadyPact, Sea, Reigna, Venatrix, NoreenSwan, and PeonForHer;
quote:
LadyPact:
To be more accurate, I got the 'this thing is still going on and it's still this ugly' mentality. If anybody can see some of the responses on this thread as other than bitter at best and repulsive at worst, more power to you.
I typed words to this effect... oh, probably a few thousand pages back.
*two orders of magnitude added for extra spice and drama* :-)
quote:
undergroundsea to LadyPact:
I don't think it's wrong that this topic is being discussed at length. It actually makes for an interesting topic for intellectual discussion -- it touches upon philosophy, sociology, psychology, gender issues, more. What I do wish was different about these discussions is the ugliness. I don't think the ugliness is necessary. What do you think is causing the ugliness?
I agree (regarding some posts) with your opening. The closing question? Oh Lord Sea, you're clearly a much greater masochist than I!
quote:
Reigna:
Some people find it necessary to make others feel bad in order to feel better about themselves. It's really that simple.
Yes, I think this is part of it. Not all of it, but part of it. There are a lot of emotions from bad dating and relationship experiences being projected onto each gender. Oh, and the "whore" and "ethical" factors always seem to come up when "money topics" are discussed. It's quite the melting pot going on here. :-)
quote:
undergroundsea to Reigna:
I think that is indeed playing a role here. I see a lot of finger pointing at subs, and lists of subs who are on the good list, and the like. I see the behavior or attempts to put down others to come from dommes and some subs who support tribute no less than it has come from those who oppose tribute. I think a bigger, more fundamental reason is that people are feeling disrespected. I think greater breakthroughs can be had if the reasons for why people are feeling disrespected can be mutually understood and respected.
Ostensibly, each gender group is feeling attacked, frustrated, a tad (if not a lot) bitter, generalized, marginalized, and slighted by this thread. I've always found empathy a better approach in this type of discussion. There's not a lot of empathy going around and hence each side is firmly holding their ground. Admittedly, I find it difficult to read broad, "most subs suck" statements without engaging the volley. Apparently, as a sub, I'm a cheap-ass by definition! Who knew? :-)
Side note: If you read the "heterosexual males sucking cock" thread, some subs do indeed suck their dommes and whomever and whatever their dommes tell them too. So I stand self corrected.
quote:
Venatrix:
Most of us agreed dozens of pages ago that the OP's phrasing of "this is how subs ought to do it" was perhaps unfortunate, at best, but a small core of malesubs decided to keep on bashing tribute dommes, and I think that's where a lot of the bashing back started.
What you've written, perhaps unwittingly, gets at a key issue: misunderstanding. I've not seen many people bashing tribute dommes in this thread (or at least this is my perception). Likewise, my feeling is that there have been some atrocious remarks and generalizations made about male submissives. Perhaps this isn't the case either. Maybe both are the case. In any event, perception seems to be holding strong during this debate and each side perceives wrongdoing by the other and isn't leaving much leeway for understanding.
quote:
NoreenSwan to Reigna:
In case you can't see, all of the women posting in here in this thread have been respectful. If u sense any thing else it's because they are defending against all the male bashers who bash women for getting what they want, for what's within a dominant female's right to do with her subby."
This is an excellent example of what I was just commenting on to Venatrix. I'm not going to invalidate your words because how you feel *is* how you feel. This said, I don't perceive what you've written at all. Not even slightly. The "Ask A Mistress" forum, as a whole, is filled with men and women who believe in and actively support women achieving and getting what they want. Yes, one must subtract the wankers, do me, and trolls type, but these are in many online forums. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding as to intent and the differing reactions to the OP illustrate this. As I wrote several pages back, certain topics are best left for face-to-face mediums of discussion as opposed to face-free, online forums. I think there are a number of topics in this thread that fall into that category.
quote:
NoreenSwan to TexasMaam:
Thank god not all male subs got threatened by your post. It's just the same usual "subs" who have issues with women doing their thing to get what they want by their very willing sub boys.
Here's the impedance mismatch again. I don't think any submissives took issue with "women doing their thing to get what they want by their very willing sub boys". Personally, what I took issue with was the crass way this was presented in the OP.
quote:
undergroundsea to ShaktiSama:
I prefer to have these discussions in a reasonably respectful manner.
PeonForHer to undergroundsea:
Yes, you do. You always do. But you not only prefer to have them that way, you steadfastly keep to that standard no matter what nasty little jibes come your way. You are like a man who won't stop fighting by Marquess of Queensberry rules no matter how often people try to sneak kicks into your groin. Elan complimented you on your style of writing before and you richly deserved it. These are your 'true stripes' and they're abundantly evident, always.
Despite the reference to my own post, I wholeheartedly agree. What you see here isn't specific to this board. I've been enjoying and learning from Sea's posts for many years and on many forums. If I'm ever remotely near an event Sea is presenting at, I'll go out of my way to attend.
quote:
PeonForHer to NoreenSwan:
Noreen, I really do think you should give serious consideration to the possibility that your style of attacking does more damage to those who you profess to support than it does to those you're attacking.
+1
Oops. I've taken sides (here and probably, inadvertently, in other places above). Clearly I should be spanked many times - by my friends on CM and in real life. :-)
Elan.
< Message edited by ElanSubdued -- 9/5/2009 10:25:39 AM >
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