RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE".....

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (Full Version)

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NoreenSwan -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/4/2009 12:50:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Reigna Me, personally, I am working up quite a fetish for telling people to get the fuck over themselves. And there you have it. Straight out of the garbage can. The part about getting over themselves? Who? And why? Because they are dominant and are getting what they want by men who want to give it? In case you can't see, all of the women posting in here in this thread have been respectful. If u sense any thing else its because they are defending against all the male bashers who bash women for getting what they want, for what's within a dominant female's right to do with her subby. Many male subs have a problem with women getting what they want from their subs. You seem to be the only one with a nasty, resentful attitude to your female counterparts for getting what they want. Your comment above is all too telling about YOU and your attitude toward other women. Your comment above: Google "projection". And learn to have some respect for you fellow counterpart women.

undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/4/2009 2:07:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NoreenSwan And there you have it. Straight out of the garbage can. <snip> In case you can't see, all of the women posting in here in this thread have been respectful. It is not respectful to liken another poster to a garbage can because they disagree with you. If you aspire to be respectful, your current post defeats that objective. Cheers, Sea

NoreenSwan -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/4/2009 5:40:16 PM)
Are you kidding me? Disagreeing isn't offensive one bit, pal, it's telling people to get the fuck over themselves that is. That was confrontational and out of line and speaks volumes about her mental disposition and lack of social class. She should know that telling people to get the fuck over themselves wouldn't be well received by those posting in here.

Lockit -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/4/2009 6:07:00 PM)
Kind of sorta like what you did to another poster when you slam dunked her for posting in the mistress forum. I guess you do know it well then.

NoreenSwan -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/4/2009 6:09:43 PM)
Nope, not the same. And she wasn't slammed at all. Telling people to get the fuck over themselves is over the line, lady.

Lockit -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/4/2009 6:14:44 PM)
Well... one may say it right out and one might hide it behind other words and looking down at what one considers a submissive who shouldn't be answering a question. I prefere the more honest route even if it includes a naughty word. But then... I have no problem with naughty words. It just seems that you are regulating how people speak and who is allowed to speak. Now... I am done with you... lady. You have made yourself blatantly clear. andalusite~ Of course you would be against boot licking ~ because you're a slave. Seriously, he was asking dommes, not slaves. Why are you, [a slave] who identifies as a ~slave~ in here answering questions that are asked of dominant women? Yah, o.k. ~ I'll concede anyone can ask, but think about it ~ you're a slave answering a question meant for a dominant woman. Why do you think you are qualified to answer a question asked to a mistress when you're a slave giving slave answers? it's like a master asking submissive women why they love swallowing cum and a mistress comes in and says, "any woman who says they love cum swallowing is full of shit. that slimy sticky shit wouldn't even be appeal to the man and it's his own. gross." Seriously, you're not a mistress, you're a slave and his question was directed to a mistress for a mistress's answer. You're always here answering and you're a slave. And it's usually an answer that undermines female domination.... just sayin... < Message edited by NoreenSwan -- 8/31/2009 8:55:56 PM >

undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/4/2009 9:20:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NoreenSwan Are you kidding me? Disagreeing isn't offensive one bit, pal, it's telling people to get the fuck over themselves that is. That was confrontational and out of line and speaks volumes about her mental disposition and lack of social class. She should know that telling people to get the fuck over themselves wouldn't be well received by those posting in here. I think it is the disagreement that bothers you. It is for this reason you directed your comments at Andalusite in this thread and the thread about cleaning shoes as you did. It is for this reason you have been quoting like you have. Is what she said out of line because she is generally saying that people need to get over themselves, or do you find it out of line because of the words she used? Please clarify and then I'll find examples of where you do the same, and then we can examine how your standards about being confrontational, mental disposition, and social class apply to your behavior. Cheers, Sea

ShaktiSama -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/4/2009 9:46:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DMFParadox I'm getting used to the idea of tribute. I was raised to seriously mistrust credit cards, gifts received without anything given back, and working to earn your keep. I still mistrust credit cards. But you have to get lines of credit to, say, run a business; and that means having a credit history. I still feel uncomfortable accepting gifts given. But I've had relationships and friendships totally destroyed by not accepting, and even by accepting but being annoying about paying it back. I feel very uncomfortable indeed in asking for tribute. But it's been made painfully clear that not doing so, in some circumstances, is enough to damage the trust of a submissive beyond repairing. Things go downhill from there. Probably more in my case because I had a communications block about the entire topic when it was hinted at; I just shut down. I'm not talking about quid pro quo. I'm talking about those situations when I had no quo for the quid, and knew it. Seriously, it tore me up until I realized I really had to change my thinking, or give up on the type of girl that hit all my other buttons; a sincere and yielding TPE woman. I had to not only figure out how to get over it, but to ask and receive in such a way that I didn't make the girl feel guilty or unhappy about her offering. And bite my tongue when I wanted to 'buy back' my own self-imposed debt by getting her things in return. I mean, I do buy my women things, but now I do so in a way that doesn't seem like I'm practicing my own supplication in response to hers. It's been the hardest part of not equal that I've wrapped my head around as a practicing Master. A gift well recieved makes the giver want to do it again. A demand that's met successfully and rewardingly by a yielding submissive or slave makes the one who yields her/himself want to yield more; and get lost in the experience of giving everything, of trusting that it will go to good use in service of the one they've chosen. Having the gift rejected and the yielding stymied does the opposite, and this crosses boundaries of money, sex, housework, and mental limitations. I read this post with great interest--don't know if the poster is still reading or interested in this thread, but I have to thank him for adding his perspective. This really got me thinking about the economics of dominance for men who work in primarily hetero-dom relationships with women, or even gay relationships with submissive men. How do these dynamics work?

undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/5/2009 12:28:05 AM)
quote: How many women selling sex on the street and in brothels "strike you" as single mothers, Sea? Do 50-70% of all prostitutes you see on the game look like Soccer Moms while working, in your opinion? And what does a "single mother" look like anyway? I have had contact with at least 6 dommes I can immediately recall who sought this practice, of which one was a single mother. I have my intuition and what impressions I have gathered from reading profiles. And it is not hard for me to imagine that young women of college age, the age range one sees most frequently in such types of dommes, wouldn't mind clothing items, electronics, and extra cash to party it up. I do not base my reasoning simply on a physical look, as you try to suggest in an attempt to undermine my statement, but on a demographic profile. What percentage of tribute dommes falls in the 18-24 age bracket? What percentage of women in this age bracket are single mothers? Do you believe every tribute seeking domme is a single mother? What is the motivation for those who are not single mothers? Is this motivation not of a more general type, and cannot it not exist more broadly? What is the threshhold of entry to seek tributes? I do not buy your argument that the phenomenon of tribute is as commonplace as it is because of economic needs of single mothers. It does not appeal to me intellectually or intuitively. You are pulling the notion out of thin air and I feel comfortable to dispute it based on intuition alone. I invite you to browse profiles (have you done it?), see what their expectations are, and, heck, tell them you are conducting a study and see what statistics you find. quote: The reason you can't make reference or respond to statistical reality is because your views are not based in reality--and are apparently impervious to reality. Below is the statement with which we began: quote: Stereotypically, this culture allows women to exercise only sexual power, and then only for a brief duration of time (usually from ages 15-35). All other modes of power, especially financial, are reserved for men I do not believe your statement above to be factual and have given counterexamples. If your statement is factual, these counterexamples would not exist. Can you explain the existence of these counterexamples? I do speak of reality. I do not claim the reality I describe universally applies. However, it is indeed a reality as shown by the examples cited. What I question is your claim of a universal reality, because there is no universal reality of the type you describe in the text quoted above. The reason I don't make reference to statistics is because to dispute your claim to a universal reality, I simply have to give a counterexample that negates that claim, which I have done. The statistics are irrelevant based on what I questioned, and are an attempt by you to deflect attention from the original statement that you now cannot defend. If you overstated what you wished to state, that is your issue. quote: Sea's argument is that because women are human beings who can make choices, that all societal constraints, preconditions and problems can be ignored. My argument is not what you describe and instead it is to dispute your claim that the only power society allows women to exercise is sexual power. Instead of broadening the discussion, I am redirecting the focus to the initial statement so as to interrupt the attempt to deflect attention elsewhere. Once we address this matter, I will gladly move to the next one. quote: Seriously, the more you talk, the more your real stripes show. And it's not a pretty sight. When someone disagrees with you, they are either evil, ugly persons whose stripes begin to show, or their perspective is irrelevant because they choose to be a slave to men, or their reading comprehension is flawed, or they are bawling their ignorance. Can you not argue based on the merits of your position rather than trying to insult others? Do you not have enough confidence in the merits of your argument? I prefer to have these discussions in a reasonably respectful manner. I do not appreciate your attacks, whether they are directed at me or at others. I have difficulty extending to you the courtesy that you are not extending to others. Therefore, I ask you which is the best way to continue this discussion? Can we proceed with this discussion in a respectful way without the attacks, or shall we use the approach you have been using? I would prefer the respectful way. My last three posts addressed to you have been courteous despite the difficulty I have had with your posts. If you wish to be addressed courteously, would you please expend the effort to do the same in return? Cheers, Sea

undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/5/2009 12:55:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I think there are various reasons for it, Sea. The original could have been seen as such a wonderful story. <snip> The problem started with the insult. I agree. I think sharing the story itself would have gone differently. The thread title and the content at the end, especially the namecalling, came across as condescending and offensive. And it had the whole trueness aspect to it, which generally draws frowns. If the intent was not to offend, I think her follow up post should have clarified it. I was disappointed that her follow up post instead celebrated a persona that added to the offensive nature of her thread. I was more clear on the reason behind the indignation of the subs and less clear on what is creating the indignation that is in the responses of the dommes. quote: I think when the responses got to the point where some were going on "I refuse to be financially dominated" the perfect reply was "I have the right to have that control". I think this point explains some of the indignation seen in the response of the dommes. I sometimes speak of a resistance against a faceless entity that goes away when people assume faces. Subs are not willing to compromise and blindly agree to the idea of tribute to someone who has not earned it. Dommes are not willing to compromise their control for someone who has not earned it. In practice, when people assume faces and there is mutual interest, this compromise is earned. I also wonder if part of the reason is that some women see what is spent on them as a measure of their worth, and the idea that a man would not want to spend on them is offensive because of what it means from this angle. quote: Many of folks have denied it through the thread on both sides, but I still have the inclination to believe that some past not so happy experiences with those on the other side of the kneel have fueled what became this I think you are right. Each person upon hearing the word or situation conjures an image based on personal experience. In practice, if these scenarios were shared, most would find the response of each other to their respective scenarios reasonable. Thanks for your response. Cheers, Sea

WyldHrt -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/5/2009 2:10:50 AM)
quote: I read this post with great interest--don't know if the poster is still reading or interested in this thread, but I have to thank him for adding his perspective. This really got me thinking about the economics of dominance for men who work in primarily hetero-dom relationships with women, or even gay relationships with submissive men. How do these dynamics work? Speaking only for myself- as a het female sub, the term "tribute" isn't something I've come across in my interactions with Doms. If said tribute was money requested by the Dom for his time, I would decline. Nothing wrong with it, but it's just not my thing. That said, I'm a crafty type who also happens to be a "gifty" type- just ask my friends here, lol. I can't really relate to the tribute part of what DMFParadox said if it pertains to a cash type tribute, but I can relate to the gift part. When I offer something to a Dom, I'm not looking for quid pro quo. Gifts with strings attached, aren't. I give gifts because they are (if I know him) something that will be enjoyed, or bring a smile (or evil grin) to his face. As Paradox noted, if such a gift is met with distrust or an attitude that payback is required... my world goes a bit wonky. Then again, for me, this is just relationship stuff and has little to do with D/s.

PeonForHer -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/5/2009 2:40:58 AM)
I prefer to have these discussions in a reasonably respectful manner. Yes, you do. You always do. But you not only prefer to have them that way, you steadfastly keep to that standard no matter what nasty little jibes come your way. You are like a man who won't stop fighting by Marquess of Queensberry rules no matter how often people try to sneak kicks into your groin. Elan complimented you on your style of writing before and you richly deserved it. These are your 'true stripes' and they're abundantly evident, always.

TexasMaam -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/5/2009 5:25:36 AM)
PfH: You're right. That *was* a tad more than just careless wording. It was specifically aimed at one whiney, petulant, selfish, self absorbed limpdick of my acquaintance who happened to 'get my goat'. ....And it was probably in very bad taste, but at this point those words have generated so much controversy on the boards that it's a hoot, so I won't take them back. I canna hep it if every boy on CM took those words personally. They were, indirectly, also aimed at the posters who come onto this board day after day after day after day with their endless diatribes and 'Dommes demanding tribute' complaints. If those constant posters are not clever headed enough to decide to whom they wish to offer tribute and to whom they do not wish to offer tribute, well, then, they really do get what they deserve. I was venting a bit, while simultaneously boasting in a giddy rush of glee and gushing happiness, and I probably would have come across much better if I had left the negative barbs out and simply posted the positive. Not that it will make any difference on the life of this thread. Besides, life isn't all cinnamon and sweet gingerbread so why should the boards be a positive, delicious bakery, all sweetness and spices and savory and light? I'm sure any therapist will tell you that the yin and yang of sharing thoughts and experiences is replete with light vs dark epiphanies. Have you ever posted anything here and gone back and read it a few days later and thought to yourself: "Gee, that really isn't what I meant to say at all!" It happens to the best of us. It is what it is. I'll tell you one thing.....I've really enjoyed reading everything. Good, bad, indifferent, it's been a fun read. <exits, chuckling...... TM quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Come on, La T. Think of an equivalent to "whiney, petulant, selfish, self absorbed limpdicks" applied to femdoms. That was a tad more than just careless wording.

SimplyIsaac -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/5/2009 7:49:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: undergroundsea I agree. I think sharing the story itself would have gone differently. The thread title and the content at the end, especially the namecalling, came across as condescending and offensive. And it had the whole trueness aspect to it, which generally draws frowns. If the intent was not to offend, I think her follow up post should have clarified it. I was disappointed that her follow up post instead celebrated a persona that added to the offensive nature of her thread. Oh please. Yes, let's march in step with the straight jacket of political correctness. Eventually the dominant women (and submissive men, to boot) won't be able to express much other than the trite and polite status quo, which is so shapeless and general it wouldn't be worth even having a message board to discuss ideas and yes, truths in the first place about dominance and submission, bondage and discipline and slavery. [8\|]

LadyPact -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/5/2009 8:08:53 AM)
It has nothing to do with being PC. It has to do with honest portrayal. I think 90% of the original was about that. Even TM has come here now to say that My suspicions were right about that last 10%. That last ten percent was what started the fire under this thread. Because of that, the rest of the good stuff, the giddy, happiness, contentment, this is what My boy does stuff, got lost. In My personal opinion, we have just as much responsibility in discussion of this lifestyle of when things go right as when things go wrong. This helps to balance the bullshit that comes to these boards every day. Do we really want the core of BDSM discussion to be limited to 'master doesn't call anymore' and 'limits were broken' types of topics? If it's not about real life, real fun, real essence of being, what in the hell are we even doing here?

Andalusite -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/5/2009 8:34:32 AM)
Sea, I guess I feel that liking and respect are necessary for a friendship. Of course, I wouldn't want a boyfriend who I didn't like or respect either, but that's not enough on its own for a romantic relationship. Rather than assuming that the ladies who ask for tribute don't respect you or find your personality lacking, why not just tell them that financial domination is a hard limit for you. If they insist, then you obviously aren't compatible. shrugs I can understand why you (and many other men) don't want to engage in tribute, although I still am confused by the ones who feel that even demands of flowers or paying for dinner are beyond the pale. cloudboy, yes, there are some wonderful male submissives here, who have either found partners already, or who I can't figure out why they haven't been snapped up yet! However, judging by the mail I got from submissive men when I was seeking, and from posts from other Dommes here, the vast majority of the ones on the other side seemingly go out of their way to approach women in ways that we find distasteful or boring. Threads pop up here and in the submissive section all the time on "how do I make a profile/send an e-mail that will get a response," but they apparently don't bother to use common sense, or read some similar advice threads, before wasting months or years with "Hi." "Wanna chat?" "Mistress may I serve you?" and long fantasy e-mails first. This whole tribute thing is an example - if someone has any indications of interest in that area, why complain about it? Just figure they're not compatible, just like someone who is too far away, already taken, etc.

OttersSwim -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/5/2009 8:35:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact If it's not about real life, real fun, real essence of being, what in the hell are we even doing here? Exactly [sm=agree.gif] [sm=applause.gif]

PeonForHer -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/5/2009 8:36:53 AM)
I'm not sure why you invoke the 'political correctness' argument. The matter does seem more, to me, to be about whether something has been offensive in the ordinary, everyday sense of the word. But, whichever word or phrase you take, everyone has to be prepared for the consequences because all sides will assume that the 'rules of behaviour' apply equally to all sides. For instance, 'limpdicks' - applied by a woman to a section of men - could lead to a man feeling justified in searching for some equally offensive term to apply to a section of women. Things haven't quite gone that far here - and I don't think most would want them to.

PeonForHer -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/5/2009 8:39:34 AM)
If it's not about real life, real fun, real essence of being, what in the hell are we even doing here? Oh gawd yes. Seconded! (Or is that 'thirded' by now?)

NoreenSwan -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/5/2009 8:50:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TexasMaam I canna hep it if every boy on CM took those words personally. They were, indirectly, also aimed at the posters who come onto this board day after day after day after day with their endless diatribes and 'Dommes demanding tribute' complaints. If those constant posters are not clever headed enough to decide to whom they wish to offer tribute and to whom they do not wish to offer tribute, well, then, they really do get what they deserve. It's telling who took personal offense to her post. And you have to wonder why. It's the usual "subs" too. Stop being so weak boys, I mean really, you sound whiney and insecure and frightened and hyper sensitive. How come it's always the same "subs" whinning on every post to do with women and money. Tributes, gifts, financial domination , anything to do with women and money - these men fill all these types of threads with visceral domme bashing just because these women are doing their thing. The same posters.

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