RE: If the tables were turned.

RE: If the tables were turned. (Full Version)

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Jeptha -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/13/2009 11:07:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz ...Another thing I have noticed in the real world is, if I have a submissive then that submissive suddenly becomes much more attractive to other female Dominants. People often want what they can't have or perhaps its just they see some reality in what we have. The same could be said online/those writing to forums who are in ongoing Dom/sub relationships. Its an open testimonial that its the real McCoy and the real McCoy is often more attractive than perhaps someone without validity ... I wonder if what you are citing here is more of a female dilemma: deciphering the "real McCoy" from "someone without validity", precisely because women do receive e-mails by the dozens, etc., so much so that sorting them out is the challenge. Women, it seems, are always warned against guys who are misrepresenting themselves, etc. For guys (well - I'll speak for myself here - for me), the vetting process, while still a little bit tricky in some ways, is less difficult because the numbers are low. Edit to add: Actually, I can think of ways things would definitely might change. I know in my life there have been several times when women have said (well after the fact) that they were interested in me but they never said anything about it at the relevant time, and nothing ever came to pass because I didn't think they were interested. Those situations might look different, and that would be a different experience.

Drakontos -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/13/2009 12:15:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz Imagine if the tables were turned on us within this lifestyle and suddenly there were not enough male subs to go round, too many Mistresses, and a huge amount of female submissives but hardly any male Dominants. Imagine if every time a Dom or male sub went to his male box he was inundated with mail but us women hardly ever got mail. Would women carry on this lifestyle. Would we sit and send letters in the hope that a male sub or Dom would read them and get back to us. Would we change do you think? If something like this were to happen; then zaphira would go on just like she always has. zaphira is not submissive/slave because of men/women/dominants; she is this way because it is in her nature to be subservient. This would not change simply because there were no dominant males around.

allthatjaz -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/13/2009 12:47:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 But for all of that, there is also a feedback loop present that definitely skews the picture. Take a look at the position I am in. I have already WON. I have the girl, the house, the car, yada yada. Not only that, but I've had it all for a long time. So it's not all the surprising that I exude confidence and stability. But if Carol were to die and I was single, I would be less confident, more shaken in general, more needy, more lots of things. How that would change the picture is anyone's guess. But I'm just a little leary of the "proven success" theory because I think there's some important feedback loops in the system. In the absence of Carol, I would not be the calm, capable, assertive, yada yada man that I am now to at least some extent. I find myself agreeing with this too. Proof of this was when I was in a four year relationship with a well liked bloke. On his arm I was very confident and that confidence seemed to pull guys towards me. Men would tell him what a lucky man he was and all of that. When we broke up I felt my confidence take a tumble and in return I suddenly felt unattractive and very much out their on my own. Men were suddenly not as attentive to me as before and it was very noticeable I don't think the couple thing is a case of proving yourself within BDSM but more (like you said) about being capable of holding something together long term.

allthatjaz -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/13/2009 12:55:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavekal Aakasha, I don't think there is any such thing as a vanilla guy, just guys whose fetishes and submission are not always at the forefront of their minds. A smart, skillful Mistress can easily tap into the slave inside. Don't kid yourself! I go on another site that is not kink/fetish related and recently someone started a thread about people like us. The thread went on for weeks, had over 200 posters and only a handful thought that submission and Domination were cool. The rest thought we were sick perverts. It was disturbing reading and a bit of a wake up call.

leadership527 -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/13/2009 1:06:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz Don't kid yourself! I go on another site that is not kink/fetish related and recently someone started a thread about people like us. The thread went on for weeks, had over 200 posters and only a handful thought that submission and Domination were cool. The rest thought we were sick perverts. It was disturbing reading and a bit of a wake up call. True enough. I myself would've been in that camp a scant 2 years ago so I think I get the head space pretty well. But if I was introducing some vanilla woman into the world of submission, I wouldn't be doing it based on ill-formed notions I read on a web page somewhere. I'm pretty confident that there are a fair number of vanilla women that I could successfully introduce submission to. But yeah, if just went up to some vanilla girl and said, "Will you be my slave so you can blow me whenever I want?" I'm guessing that wouldn't work out well.

LadyPact -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/13/2009 2:19:49 PM)
I don't want to derail this thread by mixing topics, but one thing is standing out so much that it shouldn't be ignored. That is what can be perceived as a higher appeal factor when someone is already in a dynamic with someone. It also goes back to what I was referring to when I mentioned self esteem. Self esteem, confidence, and the ability to demonstrate one's strengths are often some of the benefits that can be reaped when someone is in a successful D/s dynamic. I find this to be true especially for s types. If they have no one to serve, their service skills are often overlooked. If they are actually serving someone, or even serving in a volunteer capacity at an event, it gets noticed. This is a great advantage when compared to someone who goes to an event and merely is a wallflower. That's one of the biggest complaints that I hear from folks. "Oh, I went to such and such, but it was like no one noticed. What did you do to get them to notice you? This is a huge drawback in cases where folks have low self esteem or are terribly shy. I don't see that as a gender issue. I see that as a personality type issue.

sweetsub1957 -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/13/2009 2:25:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Self esteem, confidence, and the ability to demonstrate one's strengths are often some of the benefits that can be reaped when someone is in a successful D/s dynamic. Absolutely I agree!! You are so right. [;)]

allthatjaz -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/13/2009 2:33:47 PM)
I agree with everything you have said here LP. It can be painful watching the wallflowers and I am sure you, like I, have seen the same wall flowers month after month, year after year. I go on another fet site that is English and a lot of us know each other from clubs and the like. What I have noticed on there is the male subs that have the confidence to write (without winging) on the forums and also come out into the real life community, get Mistresses very quickly. In fact I would go as far as to say that some of those male subs really have there pick. A male sub really does have to stand out from the rest. That may seem a bit unfair, in fact it seems a lot unfair but then that's life .... survival of the fittest and all that.

CaringandReal -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/13/2009 7:44:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz Another thing I have noticed in the real world is, if I have a submissive then that submissive suddenly becomes much more attractive to other female Dominants. People often want what they can't have or perhaps its just they see some reality in what we have. Thank you for noticing what I wrote. :) It's hard being a newcomer around here. Almost everyone ignores what you post. I could say "BABBLE WABBLE DABBLE GABBLE I am from Homeland Security and I am spying upon you!" and only one person here would probably take note. ;) Absolutely, I have noticed that as well. And it works for the opposite genders too. A female slave or sub who is owned gets a lot more attention from people than a single one, at least at at the social events I used to attend. It would annoy the hell out of me. I'd tell these fellows very directly, "No, I am not interested, I am owned," and they would be back half an hour later trying to seduce me! :/ I also think people see the reality, the happy submissive who's found their place, and want that reality. They are naturally drawn to that. Someone who is single or has been for a long time often gives off feelings of desperation, which most people are not drawn toward. THe desperation business is so true, in fact, that, if I wanted to discourage people from writing me on a personals board at times (if I was in the mode to take a break or have some peace, but still wanted to be able to log in and read) I might spray just a little of it on. I think it would make an excellent deterrent. :)

Andalusite -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/13/2009 9:24:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Kind of makes you wonder if we females would ignore such things put in profiles and proceed to be annoying until we were blocked by the males. [8D] I seriously doubt it. The only women who write that way tend to be scammers, pro-Dommes who cater to the BDSM-porn female supremacists, and guys pretending to be women. They might have a lot more e-mails to choose from, and quite possibly a lot of "umm Hi" type ones that aren't very detailed, but not much in the way of "On your knees bitch/I want to serve you/I'm a worthless worm" types, or whatever equivalent ones would be likely to get them blocked. Some might not bother to respond to any woman who doesn't meet their standards, though, no matter how well she writes. Jaz, I'm taken, so I wouldn't be affected, but in general, I'd say a lot of the women would play with each other, and poly would probably become even more popular/accepted, so that would tend to even the numbers out a bit. I suspect that most of the loser guys, of whatever BDSM persuasion, still wouldn't attract much interest, but there would be a lot more competition for the good ones. In your question, do you mean that the shift would take place in the local public scenes as well, or just online? There's some overlap, but certainly not exclusively, and it's hard to imagine those demographics shifting significantly that quickly. Lilly, I don't think of it as choosing, even though I'm a switch. When I was looking, I was open to any BDSM role, with a man of any BDSM orientation, but I can't choose to submit to or dominate someone, it depended on how I reacted to that individual. AAkasha, I'm with you on that - I've "converted" a couple of open-minded vanilla guys, and have had LTRs with a couple more guys who were interested in BDSM, but hadn't had a chance to explore it yet. Even if I were single again, losing the BDSM kinky sites as a useful tool probably wouldn't affect me all that much.

littlesarbonn -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/13/2009 11:03:18 PM)
To be honest, the whole male/female disparity in numbers has never bothered me as a male submissive. What I discovered is that there are a lot of guys who think like guys, and that tends to just overwhelm the natural numbers. Therefore, most women tend not to actually find people of substance because all they get are the guys who treat women like they met them in a strip club and just bought them a drink (thinking that somehow that gives them all sorts of permission to be really, really stupid). What I've discovered is that quality women have a tendency to find what they're looking for, and if you're a quality male (sub or whatever), you'll be found in due time.

cornflakegirl -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/14/2009 1:26:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz quote: ORIGINAL: slavekal Aakasha, I don't think there is any such thing as a vanilla guy, just guys whose fetishes and submission are not always at the forefront of their minds. A smart, skillful Mistress can easily tap into the slave inside. Don't kid yourself! I go on another site that is not kink/fetish related and recently someone started a thread about people like us. The thread went on for weeks, had over 200 posters and only a handful thought that submission and Domination were cool. The rest thought we were sick perverts. It was disturbing reading and a bit of a wake up call. That's really fucking sad. :(

Nightrider -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/14/2009 1:32:10 AM)
People like us?

allthatjaz -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/14/2009 1:56:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nightrider People like us? People who get up to the things we do. The majority of people (mainly women) decided that we were slightly sick people that had something vital missing within our relationships [:D]

LadyJulieAnn -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/14/2009 7:47:05 AM)
The "statistics" really didn't play a part in my search process when I was actively seeking. It didn't matter that there were many more subs than Dommes, because I really only had contact with a few that were in the running, based on compatibility with D/s and vanilla interests. I don't see a reversal in numbers changing my process.

HumiliatePorky -> RE: If the tables were turned. (8/14/2009 8:28:07 AM)
I don't see it being the amount of dominants there are to search for, but finding the right one who is compatitable,even if there were less men I'd probably still be quite selective as the amount I submit through degradation and what is described on my profile is pretty deep. Also I am careful, I believe maybe if a female didn't have to be careful in meeting in real time the situation may be different too.

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