RE: Health Care: A Better Idea

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eyesopened -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 12:39:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY An interesting take on the subject: Midas Muffler, Not Canada is the Model for Health Care Reform By Robert Weissberg August 12, 2009 Empathy aside, ObamaCare is an extravagant, wasteful, overly bureaucratized answer to a quandary for which a less costly and more efficient solution that already exists. This solution is, moreover, totally capitalistic, requires minimal government funding, entails no life-or-death decisions made by faceless bureaucrats, nor will it transform the US medicine into bumbling, British-style Socialism-Lite. Though hardly a miracle panacea, it is way ahead of what is on today's Congressional menu. This solution is "Convenient Care" or, more colloquially, Doc-in-a-Box, since facilities often resemble box-like fast food restaurants. It consists of no-appointment walk-in medical offices with extended hours (including evenings and weekends) with a small staff treating commonplace illnesses. A nurse practitioner runs it, though under a physician's supervision. ... Convenient care dates from 2000, and use has exploded. That legislators and well-paid healthcare experts have no need for such prompt, cheap services may help explain its invisibility in today's debate. These clinics are represented by a national trade association -- the Convenient Care Association -- and one industry market research firm estimated their number to be 1,200 in 2008 and predicted that this would increase to 2,400 with revenues of $2 billion by 2013. ... Everybody benefits. Consumers can get their sinusitis, bronchitis, throat infections, urinary tract infections and multiple other bothersome illnesses treated quickly, cheaply at a nearby strip mall or corner Walgreens. Meanwhile small facilities boost walk-in traffic that often bring sales elsewhere in the store. ... This is free enterprise heaven. That profits come from performing thousands of small services means intense pressure to improve efficiency, while price transparency will make savvy medical shopping akin to buying meat and potato commodities. ... Moreover, as our examples suggest, convenient care may address two problems that have traditionally perplexed today's medical system -- prevention and follow-up. Lots of more detailed information in the full article. This was just a taste. Firm My local Doc-in-a-Box charges $100 per visit. I don't spend $100 to take care of minor infections, I just deal with them. I have a family history of oesteoporosis so severe that both my grandmother and my great-grandmother were bed-ridden, my great-grandmother developing bone cancer as a side-effect. My own mother has two vertebra that have disintigreated into mush even while taking Fosamax. I am 56 years old, post menopausal and I don't have insurance, it isn't offered through my employer and Doc-in-the-Box isn't the same as Bone-Density-Scan-in-a-Box or Long-Term-Treatments-R-Us. I currently just live as best as I can and figure I will probably just deal with my situation and when / if it gets too bad, I have access to really powerful firearms or a a less troublesome sleep in a carbon-monoxide filled luxury vehicle. It sounds good. Doctors competing for business but at least where I live, have lived, my children live, my parents live, doctors are NOT accepting new patients and have enough business they don't have to be "competitive"

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 12:50:55 PM)
quote: An interesting take on the subject: Midas Muffler, Not Canada is the Model for Health Care Reform By Robert Weissberg August 12, 2009 Empathy aside, ObamaCare is an extravagant, wasteful, overly bureaucratized answer to a quandary for which a less costly and more efficient solution that already exists. This solution is, moreover, totally capitalistic, requires minimal government funding, entails no life-or-death decisions made by faceless bureaucrats, nor will it transform the US medicine into bumbling, British-style Socialism-Lite. Though hardly a miracle panacea, it is way ahead of what is on today's Congressional menu. This solution is "Convenient Care" or, more colloquially, Doc-in-a-Box, since facilities often resemble box-like fast food restaurants. It consists of no-appointment walk-in medical offices with extended hours (including evenings and weekends) with a small staff treating commonplace illnesses. A nurse practitioner runs it, though under a physician's supervision. Have you ever -used- one of these places? I did just 2 weeks ago. They opened a new one in the Walgreens right up the street from us. Let me share the experience with all y'all. On a Tuesday morning, my stepdaughter woke with an earache and a slight fever. She's an adult, so even though we figured it might be a middle ear inflammation/ infection (she'd just returned from 3 weeks in Chicago, where she'd burned the candle at both ends and dealt with a much different climate than she was accustomed to), she didn't want to go to her regular doctor (she didn't want to sit in the clinic all day waiting to see if they could fit her in) -- so we opted for the Take Care Health Center up the street. The visit was -expensive-... over $100... and it wasn't covered by our insurance. She saw a nurse-practitioner who asked her a couple of questions, didn't examine her at all or look at her throat, ears, etc., and who told us it was probably "just allergies", but that they didn't really _DO_ acute care beyond minor bumps and scrapes and giving immunizations, so we'd need to schedule her with a regular doctor -- and they'd be happy to provide us a referral list. All in all, if this is what Doc-in-a-box is, I'd say it's more like 'MickieD's' than "Midas Muffler"... and at those prices -without- any service... well... it doesn't seem like any better than what we've already got, and -certainly- not a solution to our healthcare woes in this country. Just sayin... DC

Brain -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 1:04:41 PM)
Robert Reich--How To Fight Healthcare Fearmongers And Demagogues Obama's health care problem is that the legislation is still in the works. It's always easier to stir up fear and anger against something that's amorphous than it is to stir up enthusiasm for it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/how-to-fight-heathcare-fe_b_257825.html

FirmhandKY -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 1:06:23 PM)
Good comments. I've seen some of them, but have no experience. Thanks. Firm

Mercnbeth -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 1:09:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brain Robert Reich--How To Fight Healthcare Fearmongers And Demagogues Obama's health care problem is that the legislation is still in the works. It's always easier to stir up fear and anger against something that's amorphous than it is to stir up enthusiasm for it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/how-to-fight-heathcare-fe_b_257825.html Not finished and "amorphous" - wonder why a President would try to push for it to be voted upon and implemented before Congress adjourned for the summer? Facetious question - I think the reaction of the public, far from a result of stirred up "fear and anger" was what the Administration hoped to avoid. It is the appropriate response for this wreck of a Bill.

Brain -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 1:20:34 PM)
Right Wing’s Anti-Health Care Icon Is Uninsured, Seeking Donations To Pay For Care (Updated) Last week, during a scuffle between health care town hall protesters and SEIU members at a town hall hosted by Rep. Russ Carnahan (D-MO), anti-health care reform protester Kenneth Gladney was injured and required hospitalization :…………………………….... ………………………………........................................................................................................................................................................................... The irony is that Gladney’s situation underscores the vital need for health care reform. He was recently laid off and lost his insurance (14,000 Americans suffer a similar fate each day). Because he has no affordable health care option available, Gladney is now soliciting donations to pay his medical expenses: http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/10/gladney-uninsured/

Brain -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 1:49:17 PM)
Fact or Fiction? The Truth About Four Health Care Fears Among the most hotly discussed issues have been charges that the proposed legislation would create so-called "death panels" to ration care for the old and infirm; that it would use taxpayer dollars to fund abortions; that its passage would mark the end of Medicare; and that it would open the door to socialized medicine. But how accurate are the assumptions? The White House says some are completely false. One of the most controversial claims in the health care debate is that the health care reform bill would provide for "death panels" to decide whether sick seniors and children with birth defects should receive medical care. But Johnson said there is no evidence of any such provision in the text of the health care bill. The most likely explanation, he said, is that the rumors of such a provision spring from a misinterpretation of a proposal to offer Medicare patients an optional service known as "advanced care planning consultation." This provision makes clear this is entirely voluntary for patients; it is not mandatory optional service known as "advanced care planning consultation." " Most surveys show seniors want this desperately from their doctors, and only very few get it... I think when seniors find out what this is really about, they'll welcome it." "None of [the bills] say abortions should or could be paid for with tax dollars; The idea that the proposed health care legislation would eliminate Medicare But Johnson said that seniors need not worry about such a situation. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HealthCare/Story?id=8317197&page=1

Brain -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 1:57:11 PM)
Well, look at this RIDICULOUS nonsense- http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life I CANT believe how insane Palin is!!!!

Mercnbeth -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 2:09:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brain Fact or Fiction? The Truth About Four Health Care Fears Among the most hotly discussed issues have been charges that the proposed legislation would create so-called "death panels" to ration care for the old and infirm; that it would use taxpayer dollars to fund abortions; that its passage would mark the end of Medicare; and that it would open the door to socialized medicine. But how accurate are the assumptions? The White House says some are completely false. One of the most controversial claims in the health care debate is that the health care reform bill would provide for "death panels" to decide whether sick seniors and children with birth defects should receive medical care. But Johnson said there is no evidence of any such provision in the text of the health care bill. The most likely explanation, he said, is that the rumors of such a provision spring from a misinterpretation of a proposal to offer Medicare patients an optional service known as "advanced care planning consultation." This provision makes clear this is entirely voluntary for patients; it is not mandatory optional service known as "advanced care planning consultation." " Most surveys show seniors want this desperately from their doctors, and only very few get it... I think when seniors find out what this is really about, they'll welcome it." "None of [the bills] say abortions should or could be paid for with tax dollars; The idea that the proposed health care legislation would eliminate Medicare But Johnson said that seniors need not worry about such a situation. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HealthCare/Story?id=8317197&page=1 AMAZING - Why, then why would the 'non-provision' have to be dropped? quote: "We are working very hard to avoid unintended consequences by methodically working through the complexities of all of these issues and policy options," Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley, the ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, said in a statement. "We dropped end-of-life provisions from consideration entirely because of the way they could be misinterpreted and implemented incorrectly." Grassley said the end-of-life provision in the versions of the healthcare reform bill under consideration in the House would pay physicians to "advise patients about end-of-life care and rate physician quality of care based on the creation of and adherence to orders for end-of-life care." "Maybe others can defend a bill like the Pelosi bill that leaves major issues open to interpretation, but I can't," Grassley added. DROPPING THE PROVISION THAT WASN'T THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE Kind of makes you wonder, what else "isn't there" in the 1000 pages that should be dropped. Hey Brain, ever think it would be wise to see if any of the links has been refuted by fact? Just a suggestion, but it may actually give the side you support a modicum of integrity. As amazing as this might be, pulling the so called non-existent provision points to SARAH PALIN - RIGHT!?

Brain -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 2:47:19 PM)
Dennis Kucinich: Here's What We Need to Do on Health Care : "We need to show people that the only real way to control costs and to make health care widely available and to have your doctor choice is through a single-payer system. (youtube.com) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWXRwrYa4oU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWXRwrYa4oU How to help Become a part of the growing single payer movement Visit PDA and CNA on the web Support State Single-Payer initiatives at the national and state.level Tell your congressional representative and Democratic Leaders in Congress to support the Kucinich amendment to HR 3200. Tell your congressional representative to support HR 676

philosophy -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 4:13:54 PM)
Brain.....i think the current US health care system sucks and that some form of universal health care is a necessary part of a sane and civilised society...... That said, will you please stop trying to make the current health care system look like the better alternative by virtue of the ridiculously partisan and analysis free posts you've been making. You're pretty much acting like the pro universal health care version of Sarah Palin. Stop it. If you truly want universal health care, then i suggest you start debating and stop engaging in polemics.........that's Willbeurdaddys job.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 4:14:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Hey Brain, ever think it would be wise to see if any of the links has been refuted by fact? Just a suggestion, but it may actually give the side you support a modicum of integrity. Merc, You are actually following any of his links? You really don't need to, you know. He's just screaming into an echo chamber. Readers are entirely option, and not really necessary, nor appreciated. Firm

blacksword404 -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 4:30:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy If you truly want universal health care, then i suggest you start debating and stop engaging in polemics.........that's Willbeurdaddys job. This is the part in the western where all activity in the bar stops and the band suddenly packs up their shit.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 4:34:31 PM)
quote: You are actually following any of his links? You really don't need to, you know. He's just screaming into an echo chamber Oh hell Firm, they serve to confirm my position. Sometimes better than ones from the other side. The last one, posted about the wrong interpretation of the "death panel" was perfect to cite as an indicator of the 'pro' health care Bill supporters either talking out of both sides of their mouth, or not knowing the 1000 page Bill's contents. Besides, as we've discussed, I'm having FUN! Although when it's this easy, it takes some of the fun away. Anyone can his a baseball sitting on a tee. I just hope he doesn't follow my good friend Philo's advice.

philosophy -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 4:35:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy If you truly want universal health care, then i suggest you start debating and stop engaging in polemics.........that's Willbeurdaddys job. This is the part in the western where all activity in the bar stops and the band suddenly packs up their shit. .........lol.......... (twirls six shooter dexterously round finger while whistling sergio leone tunes)

Brain -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 4:51:37 PM)
Fake Health Care Town Hall Tantrum-Throwers EXPOSED as Republican Operatives! August 7, 2009. This has gotten crazy. We're not having a debate about heathcare reform anymore. Mainstream Republicans are arguing ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS that OBAMA wants to KILL YOU. Meanwhile, they're sending in operatives to pose as "just regular moms" and heckle Democratic congressmen at health care town hall meetings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1NyJgvjWi0&feature=related

Phoenixpower -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 4:54:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally FR Actually a huge issue in the UK at the moment was Palins rather melodramatic claim that the British system of NHS is 'evil' with a wonderful ad over there in the US which uses British peoples opinions without actually having informed them about what their opinions would be used for. I actually think that though there are flaws in our system, such as waiting list, free health care for all is a damn good idea, and I would not enjoy having the US system. It is funny because I will be the first to complain about the problems we have but us Brits seem to have taken a bit of a 'no one hits my younger brother but me' attitude in response to the wonderfully pragmatic words of Palin. Yep, I agree with you on that one. Whilst I am NOT a fan of the UK health care system (as simply in Germany we don't really have waiting times, we call the specialist ourselves when we get referred or can refer us ourselves without needing a referal from the GP and therefore also have a choice from whom we want to have an opinion instead of waiting for a letter for an appointment and then waiting and see whom we have to put up with over here. If the specialist does not give us as fast an appointment as we wish to have one we just call another specialist to see if s/he has an earlier appointment available; we also don't need to be registered at a GP in our area and can just go to any GP, not to mention the post code lottery over here in regards to what level of cancer treatment you are going to receive), nevertheless I also would not enjoy having the US system. My heartbeat is currently attached a lot to go back home, as over here I miss the health care system in Germany a lot. However, that being said, compared to how it is done in the US, the british system is surely a better option.

Brain -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 5:15:29 PM)
Like Sinatra said,'' I did it my way! I ate it up and spit it out. And did it my way. My way'' If you don't like what I have to say you can lump it. Why don't you go wrap yourself in the flag somewhere and start ranting about free speech. Oh, that's right you're only for free speech when you don't have to argue with the truth. I post links because links are facts or truthful or evidence. Either respond to facts or argue nonsense with other people. I want healthcare reform and that's it. I'm not interested in the present system where some scumbag corporate executive receives $750 million or three quarters of $1 billion in stock options which is what is happening now, and some littke girl in Minnesota has a Tube in her belly and her mother was worried sick because the insurance company denied her healthcare.

tazzygirl -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 5:40:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie What about the english major who took federal financial aid? or the education major? or the engineering major? Why single out health care workers for a year of mandatory unpaid service for taking grants and/or loans available to all citizens? Health care workers are not the only people taking federal funding for education. I would also be concerned that it would unfairly target minorities and lower income families who may find the additional burden of another year without pay too much. We have a major shortage of primary care providers, forcing them to give a year of free work would just make more of them run to the specialities and not choose primary care. Make more voluntary programs that offer 100% loan forgiveness and higher pay to primary care providers for 1, 2 or 3 year term of service and more people will choose it over a specialty. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl one year service for one year of government funding. and why would it be a bad idea to make it mandatory? oh gesh, im sorry Chewsie... i realize i didnt make that part clear. they wouldnt be out of work for another year. we did this as part of a nursing course... anyways, they would give a shift a week. i do agree that that primary Dr's should be paid better. they get shit for money for all the education they have. and, frankly, i dont see why it couldnt be incorportated into other fields.

tazzygirl -> RE: Health Care: A Better Idea (8/13/2009 5:42:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle The other problem is the NICE (national institute for clinical excuses.) This body will tell you exactly why you can’t have that drug that’ll save your life usually it goes along the line of (brrrwhat! this drug will only save one person a year but cost 10 squillion pounds!!!). Lorenzo's oil is a perfect example of an orphan drug that the drug companies believe producing it compared to the few that need it, woudlnt be cost effective. yet, without it, those who need it die.

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