RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms.

RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 10:40:34 AM)
HBS, you're not listening to Venatrix. She's already told you what you think, just as she's certain of what I think. So she doesn't need to listen to you. This thread is hilarious [:D]

malloves69 -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 10:45:35 AM)
just a thought but where would us submissive guys be without our dominant sexy femdom ladys ?[:)] mal

AAkasha -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 10:46:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Venatrix quote: ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic So this is a bad question for me to ask? I have my own fantasies yes, but I am interested in the Dommes fantasies. They are new and different. Any good relationship is going to be about give and take. Both parties want to get their needs met. It is when, as Missokyst points out, the sub is trying to present getting his desires fulfilled as being his "service" to the domina that the dynamic gets skewed. In other words, both parties should enjoy the kinky play, but that's topping and bottoming, not dominance and submission. Agreed - but I will add to this a little. I feel like I am very, very motivated to understand and unravel a submissive/bottom's hot buttons, and that's always been core to my dominance. It's a subtle form of seduction, manipulation (in a good way) and button pushing. When I first started dominating men it was vanillas because that's all I knew, and I realized early on that in order to get a guy to submit and want to submit again, I had to make it hot and exciting for him. With submissives, it's the same way. Understanding and using male fantasies to make a guy blow his top -- and other things -- is the absolute most powerful tool a woman can use. On top of her OWN sex/sensual appeal and erotic pleasures. Unless the guy is so stoic I cannot read a thing about him, I feel I am pretty skilled at getting into a guy's head and understanding his fantasies and making them powerful. But if it's one sided like that, and it's just ME pushing his buttons, it's total burnout - it's a drain, it's an energy-suck. I have to be getting back, and I have to be getting off. And I can't just stop him and say "do this, do that. Oh by the way, x is my biggest fetish and here is why." I do that to some degree and I am pretty clear about what I want - but if a guy can't take that information and at least make an effort to try harder and to be motivated to excite me - and really, he's only interested in exciting me as long as the act excites him, then he's just a bottom. Which is fine, but I don't feel much like spending all that emotional and sensual energy to get a guy off when he could care less what turns me on. In the mind of some men, they know/want to believe this (for example) is what makes a femdom tick: face sitting. Pussy licking. Making fun of his cock. Squeezing his balls. (Granted, a lot of this is true, on some levels, and at the right moments..however..) What they don't CARE about that makes a femdom tick (for example): Vulnerability. Emotional surrender. Fear. etc. (plus, insert whatever obscure fantasies a lady may have - watching him juggle? making him do push ups?) Akasha

Venatrix -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 10:46:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hardbodysub Because of that, I have very little to say about it, except "where does she find such idiots?" Believe me, they aren't hard to come by. Unfortunately, one doesn't always find out just how idiotic they are until one has already invested a certain amount of time getting to know them. It's interesting, though, how so many men on the boards proclaim that they aren't like that, yet my private contact with them shows that many of them are indeed like that.

VeryMercurial -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 10:49:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Venatrix quote: ORIGINAL: hardbodysub Because of that, I have very little to say about it, except "where does she find such idiots?" Believe me, they aren't hard to come by. Unfortunately, one doesn't always find out just how idiotic they are until one has already invested a certain amount of time getting to know them. It's interesting, though, how so many men on the boards proclaim that they aren't like that, yet my private contact with them shows that many of them are indeed like that. this post: made my message board day. They are very easy to find to the point you are usually stumbling over them. They are not rare or hard to come by, at all.

pyroaquatic -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 10:52:35 AM)
I concur good sir. I find myself a fairly inquisitive fellow with an equal amount of listening skills, and just because I have fantasies does not mean they will be fulfilled. Although if it is Akasha spouting her sultry desires I am quite sure I would be up for most of it. She has a way of pressing my buttons.

Venatrix -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 10:56:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer HBS, you're not listening to Venatrix. She's already told you what you think, just as she's certain of what I think. So she doesn't need to listen to you. This thread is hilarious [:D] Thanks for your post, Peon. It just proves that you can dish it out, but you can't take it.

PeonForHer -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 10:58:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Venatrix Actually, I'm fairly certain that it wasn't your questions that were responsible for the headaches. How are you certain, when you haven't asked me any questions about the way in which I ask questions? quote: I meant that, from what I've seen of your participation on the boards, it seems to me that you would have many other characteristics that would prove more annoying than asking questions. Whatever. You used to feel the opposite - but, hey, things change. quote: But you are right. I should have asked you about the way in which you ask questions, so here it is: Are women getting annoyed with you because you are a complete arsehole when you ask them questions?. They've never got annoyed. If they thought I was a complete arsehole when I asked them questions - and I asked lots of questions - then, presumably, they wouldn't be with me. V, if you'd like to say something more personal to me, may I suggest you take it to c- or e-mail? quote: Indeed. I ended up asking questions that they couldn't answer - because they couldn't articulate their answers. "Where does the domme drive come from" is something that's of perennial interest to me. But since I can't answer that question regarding my own sub drive, I don't expect a domme will always know the answer either. quote: Perhaps you simply need to find more articulate dominants with whom to socialise. I have no problem explaining where my dominant drive comes from. Then I'd like to hear it. I always like to hear it. But I doubt that even you'd be able to articulate it. - edited to fix quotes

PeonForHer -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 11:03:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Venatrix quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer HBS, you're not listening to Venatrix. She's already told you what you think, just as she's certain of what I think. So she doesn't need to listen to you. This thread is hilarious [:D] Thanks for your post, Peon. It just proves that you can dish it out, but you can't take it. What? V, I'm completely lost now. What do you mean?

Venatrix -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 11:04:40 AM)
Given that I have you blocked from contacting me, I'd say it's a safe bet that I do not wish to discuss anything with you privately.

PeonForHer -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 11:06:57 AM)
Ah. I didn't realise that you'd blocked me from contacting you privately. Now duly noted. Akasha: sorry for the thread-jack.

PeonForHer -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 11:15:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic I concur good sir. I find myself a fairly inquisitive fellow with an equal amount of listening skills, and just because I have fantasies does not mean they will be fulfilled. Although if it is Akasha spouting her sultry desires I am quite sure I would be up for most of it. She has a way of pressing my buttons. My way of getting fantasies fulfilled is by developing a nice big range of them. You can't go wrong that way, IMO. [;)] No partner I've ever had has told me I fall short on 'listening skills' either. But as always, there are communication problems. Wish I could find that quote from R D Laing's book Knots. Something like, "Jack doesn't understand. Jill doesn't understand what Jack doesn't understand." Between men and women, I think very little can be taken for granted, re understanding each other. If we're talking about femdom and malesub - that problem is magnified.

AAkasha -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 11:15:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic So this is a bad question for me to ask? I have my own fantasies yes, but I am interested in the Dommes fantasies. They are new and different. I can't speak for all femdoms, as I think we are very different, but I can give you my point of view and suggest that maybe some other ladies feel the same. I think subs need to recognize that "real" femdoms (ie, not those in porn) are thinking, feeling women - and women are, by our nature, emotional, social and sensual creatures. When a femdom talks about or shares fantasies, it's often about the interaction, reaction and emotions between the two people. It's less the acts themselves. While I have quite a few fantasies and fetishes, really, my urges are about reactions (from the men) that make me feel certain things. It can get pretty convoluted and complicated. But there have been men that really worked hard to understand my drives and urges and ultimately understood them as well as I did - if not more. If a man understands what I am longing for in his reactions, he can bring that side to the surface more readily - whether it be fear, vulnerability or surrender, or any other things that push my buttons depending on my mood. Akasha

pyroaquatic -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 11:24:50 AM)
Ah so it is more about the reaction of describing said fantasy than the acting it out. Understood. I swear I am better in real life. The internet is such a restricted medium of communication.

PeonForHer -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 11:42:35 AM)
The internet is such a restricted medium of communication. You got that right.

LadyPact -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 2:44:53 PM)
Just a quick comment. I would tend to think Aakasha, that you are expecting something of someone in a top/bottom situation to respond in a way that is more appropriate for a D/s dynamic.

Andalusite -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/13/2009 9:50:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha I think subs need to recognize that "real" femdoms (ie, not those in porn) are thinking, feeling women - and women are, by our nature, emotional, social and sensual creatures. When a femdom talks about or shares fantasies, it's often about the interaction, reaction and emotions between the two people. It's less the acts themselves. While I have quite a few fantasies and fetishes, really, my urges are about reactions (from the men) that make me feel certain things. It can get pretty convoluted and complicated. But there have been men that really worked hard to understand my drives and urges and ultimately understood them as well as I did - if not more I don't think this is by any means limited to femdoms - I think that most women in general feel this way. It's something I brought up fairly early on, and the guys who didn't "get it" were put on my "To Don't" list right away. The ones who were able to truly listen to me, ask reasonably intelligent questions and make interesting comments without turning it more sexual than I was comfortable with got to talk to me more about it, and I asked them about their fantasies and experiences as well. [;)] LP, I don't think it has anything to do with Top/Bottom vs. D/s. All of the men I've dated, regardless of BDSM orientation, since my first submissive have been willing to handle this type of conversation this way. When I was looking, before I found my Master, the dominant and switch men who I went that far with were perfectly willing to listen and be respectful. "Bottom" just means that they're into the sensations, S/M, and bondage and such. It doesn't mean that they don't care about the woman, her likes and dislikes, don't want a relationship, or whatever, just that they aren't specifically turned on by control.

LadyPact -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/14/2009 12:38:26 AM)
Exactly. While it doesn't mean that they don't, it also means that they are not especially inclined to do so, either.

LadyPact -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/14/2009 12:39:58 AM)
Exactly. While it doesn't mean that they don't, it also means that they are not especially inclined to do so, either.

Andalusite -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/14/2009 7:25:11 AM)
So far in my experience with guys, bottoms, switches, and Toppy types have been more focused on the woman's actual enjoyment and getting what she needs out of the relationship than the self-identified submissives in general have been. There certainly are exceptions, but the vast majority I've talked to, both via e-mail and on the message boards, would NOT be happy with my doing the activities that they wanted, unless I were also willing to react in the ways that they demanded, down to details that none of the Dominant men I've ever talked with have expected. "She's got to orgasm from forcing me to have sex with men/using a strap-on in my ass/blah-blah." Just being willing to participate in cross-dressing, and enjoying it a bit isn't enough, "she has to enjoy my humiliation and call me her panty boy and cocksucker." "I wanna be controlled but it has to be MY way, but she has to get off on doing me exactly the way and for the exact reasons that I want her to have." I think it's pretty creepy. You know the drill - most of the self-identified bottom guys I've talked to don't make those kinds of demands!

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