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AAkasha -> RE: When to retrain vs. dump. Catch and release for Femdoms. (8/14/2009 9:19:07 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Andalusite
So far in my experience with guys, bottoms, switches, and Toppy types have been *more* focused on the woman's actual enjoyment and getting what she needs out of the relationship than the self-identified submissives *in general* have been. There certainly are exceptions, but the vast majority I've talked to, both via e-mail and on the message boards, would *NOT* be happy with my doing the activities that they wanted, unless I were also willing to react in the ways that they demanded, down to details that none of the Dominant men I've ever talked with have expected. "She's got to orgasm from *forcing* me to have sex with men/using a strap-on in my ass/blah-blah." Just being willing to participate in cross-dressing, and enjoying it a bit isn't enough, "she has to enjoy my humiliation and call me her panty boy and cocksucker." "I wanna be controlled but it has to be *MY* way, but she has to get off on doing me exactly the way and for the exact reasons that I want her to have." I think it's pretty creepy. You know the drill - *most* of the self-identified bottom guys I've talked to don't make those kinds of demands!
I wonder if some submissive men view submission as "freedom from accountability" (for their partner's enjoyment), and the longer they have fantasized, envisioned, reinforced submissive fantasies about "how a woman expresses her dominance", the more stringent those ideals become, and ultimately, it's just less about the woman as an individual. Core to the fantasy/ideal is that the dominant woman gets her pleasure from the acts and the acts only.
When I used to date and seduce vanilla guys, while they were very green to kink, I still found guys that enjoyed not being in control and also had a really strong streak to please - and/or were very motivated by turning a woman on. All I knew, from as soon as I was old enough to be intimate, was that if I was blatantly clear to a man about how excited and wet his "submitting to acts he found really weird" was, the more he'd be inclined to want to continue. What I found was true, but tenfold. Most guys got off even *more* if the acts they did - no matter how scary or weird - turned the woman on. It's an ego thing, and just a guy thing. Tell a guy to wear panties - Fuck no! Tell him to wear panties then sit on his face and show him how wet it made you - he's like, "Give me those fucking panties, I'll put them on." Panties go on, instant erection - Boom, problem solved, he'll do it any time. AND, he'll say, "What else do you want me to try ...I like to see you so turned on."
Then, though, he will want to know why and what he can do better - he doesn't care about the act because he'd never do it again with another woman anyway, he just does it for me; therefore, he wants to know why it makes me so hot. The obsessed-submissive is instead thinking of the act, and going from woman to woman, finding a woman to do the act. Once she does it, it doesn't matter how or why - and I guess, sadly, her arousal is second.
My experience with bottoms has been better also. I think they tend to know what bottoming, as an act, does for them, and they want to do a 'good job' at it so I would want to do more topping. But in my experiences it's been a little more theatrical or campy, "Here, I'll behave blatantly in a way to make it fun for you, so let me try everything and see what works".
Akasha
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