RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (Full Version)

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Trainer81 -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (3/8/2006 8:26:34 PM)

All I can say is what abuse. There can be other ways then hiting someone over the head. Maybe give her a time out but don't hit her.


Master Jon



truesub123 -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (3/10/2006 10:35:16 AM)

Just want to say I support MstrssLace and I'm sorry it happened to you. It is easy to let yourself get abused when you love someone. You did nothing wrong.

-truesub123



Dickhead -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (3/29/2006 7:46:02 AM)

You did right thing by getting out but you shouldve gotten out much sooner.I have a sadistic profile for a reason.I run into alot of women like you all they need is a safe house some assistance getting a job and nuturing to let them know it was not their fault.After that I show them they can go out there find a GOOD s/o and ask if they need anymore help to never hesitate to ask.As a Dom/Domme we are responsible to care nurture and protect our subs/slaves or did some ppl forget that part.As soon as I retire will be building a cpl homes as safe houses for ppl like you wish you all the best jean



Volcano -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (4/2/2006 10:13:26 AM)

Just bear in mind we are still only getting one side of the story here. 

Admittedly, it *is* a very calm, rational, well-stated, and credible one side. 




Alumbrado -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (4/2/2006 5:47:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theladysamantha

Could the Judge have taken into account the Contract --- not for the Legality of the Contract but rather for the Intent of the Parties to the Contract to Agree to this Physical Interaction such that the threshold to the requirements to the ordering of an order restraining the ctions of another through the Civil Law method to restrain the liberties of another individual -- not a criminal action to restrain another individual's rights -- was not crossed?

This would answer the question of Why did the Judge even refer to a non-binding Contract?

and Why did the Judge "side" with the rights of the accused rather than protect the injured party?

Just my 2 cents

Everyone be well and stay safe.

Samantha


Very perceptive questions Lady Samantha.

The answers lie with the fact that this case apparently only involved the judge denying a request for an order of protection.
Notice that an order of protection is not supposed to be issued to punish someone for past actions, or to settle disputes,  it is only supposed to be issued when the complainant has proven that the respondent is a clear danger in the future.

Had this been a criminal charge of battery, or a civil lawsuit asking for damages, there might be more to talk about (or to appeal), but it was simply one person asking the court to restrict the actions of another, which request needs to be backed up in court with hard evidence, such as recordings of threatening phone calls, reliable eyewitness accounts of threats, or a proven pattern of threatening or harrassing behavior after the relationhip has ended.
And according to the limited amount of information available in this news story, no such evidence was presented, and the judge was compelled to issue the denial. The judge was also compelled to note that the slave contract had no direct bearing on the matter at hand.

The issues of abuse, criminal battery, or the slave contract as a legal instrument, etc. should have been presented in the appropriate legal venues, which this clearly was not.

I am sure that any competent attorney or domestic violence advocate would have explained these things quite clearly to the victim, and that they had their own reasons for pursuing this remedy instead of others.



summerpls -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (4/4/2006 6:31:30 AM)

MstrssLace ... I'm very sorry for the abuse that you endured.  BDSM is NOt abuse!  Unfortunetally we do have those that hide behind this lifestyle to justify their abusive ways.  In your next relationship remember these two words .... "consentual" and "respect".  The only thing you did wrong was enable it by trying to love him too much ... and the only thing he deserved was a cast iron frying pan hitting him in the head, in the middle of the night, while he was sleeping!! [sm=paddle.gif]



lolipop -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (4/6/2006 10:57:05 PM)

quote:

in that I think it does show the intent of both parties to live a Dom/sub relationship whether it is legally binding or not. At the heart of any contract is what is called a "meeting of the minds" or "mutual assent," so that element is present in the "slave contract."

While the various BDSM lifestyles are not about abuse, you have to allow that it's very hard for an outsider to judge that fact.

What if I man puts you on a table, gases you unconscious, cuts open up your body, and does things to your insides? Is that assault or is that an operation being performed by a surgeon - and for which you probably signed some kind of consent form? What if a man puts you in a chair and works at your teeth with metal instruments and drills? Is that assault or is it just the dentist repairing a cavity in your mouth?

If a "slave contract" stipulates that one party may strike the other party more or less at will - how does one distinguish between behavior that has been consented to and behavior that is more along the lines of abuse? In my view, there would be no way to tell the difference from outside the relationship.

So there you have it. Without a contract the dominant party risks everything because the other party can always claim abuse in the relationship - and what proof is there to the contrary? With the contract the submissive party risks being in an abusive relationship and having no legal remedies because of the presumed consent factor.

It's a pickle.

I don't like the idea of abuse any more than anyone else, but I don't like so much of the onus just automatically being on the Dom either (which is legally how it is in actuality). It's all too easy for any sub to become disgruntled and cry abuse if things don't go her way. In fact, I would say that such a relationship is fertile ground for blackmail if a sub wants to get over on her dom.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
What amazed me about the article was that this judge based his decision it seems, upon the weight of a contract which is essentially illegal. I don't believe that his decision reflected that he had at all tried to understand the lifestyle the contract represented so that he could make an informed decision, for if he had he would understand that this lifestyle is NOT about abuse...nor should it be used as an alibi for it.


Hmmm...I think I disagree with this at least in part. I don't disagree that the contract is not legally binding, I disagree in that I think it does show the intent of both parties to live a Dom/sub relationship whether it is legally binding or not. At the heart of any contract is what is called a "meeting of the minds" or "mutual assent," so that element is present in the "slave contract."

While the various BDSM lifestyles are not about abuse, you have to allow that it's very hard for an outsider to judge that fact.

What if I man puts you on a table, gases you unconscious, cuts open up your body, and does things to your insides? Is that assault or is that an operation being performed by a surgeon - and for which you probably signed some kind of consent form? What if a man puts you in a chair and works at your teeth with metal instruments and drills? Is that assault or is it just the dentist repairing a cavity in your mouth?

If a "slave contract" stipulates that one party may strike the other party more or less at will - how does one distinguish between behavior that has been consented to and behavior that is more along the lines of abuse? In my view, there would be no way to tell the difference from outside the relationship.

So there you have it. Without a contract the dominant party risks everything because the other party can always claim abuse in the relationship - and what proof is there to the contrary? With the contract the submissive party risks being in an abusive relationship and having no legal remedies because of the presumed consent factor.

It's a pickle.

I don't like the idea of abuse any more than anyone else, but I don't like so much of the onus just automatically being on the Dom either (which is legally how it is in actuality). It's all too easy for any sub to become disgruntled and cry abuse if things don't go her way. In fact, I would say that such a relationship is fertile ground for blackmail if a sub wants to get over on her dom.


A doctor doesn't perform surgeries unless he knows what he is doing, and is qualified. Neither does a dentist fill cavities unless he is qualified.

A dom should not do the same unless he is 'worthy' if that makes sense. A doctor stopping the surgery midway to pocket an organ of yours is not right, just as abusing a slave isn't.



Gravinaux -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (4/9/2006 5:33:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssLace

And as for me? I fled the state four days after the plea for an order of protection was denied. I'm trying to find an atty who can help me appeal from halfway across the country.

I *was* "Slave2MyLeatherUrLace"....now...I'm Jean.


Jean,
I am in no position to know who is right or wrong nor to make a judgement.  I will tell you this, getting an order of protection is at best worthless because if he wants to attack you halfway across the country, a piece of paper won't stop him. So many women with orders of protection have been assaulted and/or killed by the very men cited in the orders that the newspapers seem to have stopped printing their stories. The order of protection at worst will give him a place to start looking for you, if he wants to. I am just pointing out the risks involved in your course of action. You know him better than I and it is your decision to make. Good luck.



KaitlanK -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (4/9/2006 5:58:25 PM)

It took Me 15 years to leave My abusive ex.... and he was vanilla... and I couldn't get an order of protection either because I was married to him.. Well I threw his backside in jail, and now if he comes near Me, he will end up in prison... Please don't think that just because You were in a BDSM relationship that it went bad. Domestic violence happens in all types of relationships... vanilla, BDSM.. Gorean... Lesbian and Guy. 



carlsteel -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (4/11/2006 4:52:48 PM)

You remark about it being clinical makes a good point. Sometimes you need to be clinical in working out details about a relationship. It's just logial and efficient. I've said the same thing about exchanging checklists in D/s, which is sort of a precurssor to contracts.

Carl



carlsteel -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (4/11/2006 5:02:19 PM)

You distinguish yourself by being up front that you play hard. I make a point of this, although I only play occasionaly, that I play with what can be called an abusive ambiance. Not always, but sometimes I say up front that I intend to be sexually, physically and emotionally abusive during play. It's these rageaholic clowns who hide that who create a big problem.



mons -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (4/12/2006 3:15:50 AM)

Mstrsslace

I feel deep pain for you. I too was abuse not by a master or dom
but by a boyfriend my parent thought was a nice man! He came off
as kind and so nice to me I can nt rememeber when things changed ?
but then did! I remember I had never had sex and he would began to
beat me to make medo this . I was force togive him blowjobs I was
shame I never told anyone! It is th shame of it all. When he went away
to the army. I was so happy but I love him still even with him trying to
kill me with pillows choking me so when he was gone I found an older man
who i gave myself to he was gently and so kind I paind him back he would never have
what a price I gave to anoter but when he did come back he wonder why I did not
have the signs of a virgin and this made me happy t see his face and that look! but i paid
for it he raped me so many times I thought that was th normal way to have
sex and he was large and he hurt me so. He lick me in my spine i have a knot
there for many years. He araped me in my home where my father and mother were there
I did not take anyone I was scared and shamed that it had went this far.
Each time he raped me it made menot want to have another man touch me ever in that
manner. He push me thorugh a glass window, I still cary the scars of his finger digging into my
arms I still see them. He hated his mother so he hated women that is the first sign if they hate
their mother they will beat you. He slap me so hard I had wretched my neck I had whiplash like
i had been in a car accident, all of these thing are not my fault i did not ask to be raped and beaten
and mrtsslace did not either. Many use the BDSM to hurt others and for anyone to say she needs to go back
and be beaten again is adamn fool. YOur not alone mtrsslace there are so many who have been hurt
womenwho are not even in this lifestyle should they be beaten too hell no. I took off to ca that is how frighten to death i was of this man he would had kill me in time oh yes the a&*hole wanted to marry me lmao
i would had rather die then to let him touch me one more time.
I am a domme now and still awoman men are stronger in the physcila way but they always go to sleep.

take care Mtrsslace i will think of you

mons/jane he had no right to do this to you



MistressLove999 -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (5/8/2006 5:47:57 PM)

MstrssLace, first of all I thank you for being brave enough to come forward and share your story with us. And also, my heart goes out to you. I hope that one day you will be able to put this awful experience far behind you.  I know this isnt easy to do, it's taken me 40yrs to try and overcome a childhood of such a person. One of the reasons I am domme and would  NEVER ever even for one minute consider being a slave. My apologies to all of you true masters out there but, it's my own personal feelings.
Also hopefully MstrssLace by coming forward and telling us your side of this story perhaps some other  ABUSED slave will see it, and run for the hills. I am sorry you lost all you had but thankfully, you still have your life. Starting over is hard, hopefully you had family and friends to turn to. I too feel that some men use this lifestyle to hide behind. No, not the true lifestyle masters who love and care for thier slaves, but the ones who are truely abusers, there is a BIG difference between abuse and spankings  &/or punishments and abuse. And sadly some people are not what they seem. By this I mean they can charm the skin off of a rattlesnake one minute and turn into a cruel monster the next. I can easily understand how and why he  gets away with it especially if he is using the lifestyle to hide behind. Hopefully someone will stop him before we read in the news "BDSM lifestyle Master kills sub/slave." I do realize there are some who do cry wolf for no reason, but I think there are alot of those who hide also.
I wish you the very best of luck, if you ever need a shoulder, pen pal etc., please feel free to email me.



Wulfchyld -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (5/8/2006 8:12:06 PM)

Jean, there are no words. I thank the heavens you are safe, and curse Hades you were hurt.



wild1cfl -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (5/8/2006 11:39:02 PM)

Jean,
We hope you are in a safe place and healing. Abuse is just that whether it is in the context of a M/s relationship or not. Take care of yourself and let us know if there is something that we can help with even from a distance.

Wild  



Mavis -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (5/9/2006 12:28:20 AM)

Jean,
It seems to me that even if the contract were considered legal, your decision to get out of it would then make you eligible for a protection order... with many types of legal precedence. a decent lawyer might have spotted a few..  Chapter 7 or 13 "bankruptcy protection" comes to mind.

That is exactly what bankruptcy is.. an order of protection for one who cannot meet the reqs of a standing contract.  It's saying "I thought I could do this, but I can't, and I need legal protection so the other party to the contract cannot cause me harm."

Good luck as you go forward, i hope you get the legal assistance that will work this properly from now on, you deserve it.  i'm not implying financial law can actually apply, but the concepts are close enough that there is precedence to use one law as an outline for a different but similar situation.



juliaoceania -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (5/9/2006 1:07:37 AM)

It seems to me that this judge did not know his behind from a hole in the ground legally speaking. His whole premise for not granting the order was the "contract" which although was not legally binding was a show the intent of the relationship, The intent of being involved in this lifestyle is not to be abused even after you have decided to leave and have no other contact with an individual. He is more or less giving legal precident to modern day legal slavery.

I cannot help but contrast this with what happens when most married people get orders of protection from estranged mates. Most of the time they can at least get one, even if they are hard to enforce. I can only say that under this judge's standard married people have the right to abuse their spouses because the marriage contract shows some sort of intent because of the vows we take. It is ludicrous to say someone intends to stay in an abusive situation. The whole thing is way beyond silly if it were not so damned serious.



buffiyum -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (5/9/2006 7:01:05 AM)

Jean,
one does understand that you didnot open this 'can of worms'.....
but i am also very grateful that you shared your story. Abuse is always something which is more easily hidden within our Lifestyle(and even accepted until people are able to see it for what it is, rather than what it purports to be). 'Play, is play', 'abuse, is abuse'...
vive la difference!!
one hopes very much, that you have a better time in life, now that you are away from such a one as that abuser.
one think that this was another instance of folks judging without full knowledge of the facts on a situation which is not their own (not that this one has not done that too, at times cause i have to say that one has, to one's shame).
well wishes,
this is buffy



bandit25 -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (5/9/2006 7:19:32 AM)

I am so sorry that you had to go through that.  It's very hard to love someone and make the decision to leave him.  You keep thinking that you can do something to change him...something to make him see what he is doing is wrong.  Alas, you cannot (as you found out).  Learn from this and move on.



MstrssLace -> RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... (5/9/2006 12:54:10 PM)

Thank you to all who've been so very kind with your words of encouragement and support.  It was important to take the time here, and honestly update the situation.
Life goes on....that's a brutal fact that is also a mercy.  I've done some bouncing around, seeking safety and a calm place from which to begin again.  I spent a few months being a bit crazy (think I'm entitled to that lol)....but the person who said time heals all really did know of what they spoke.  With each passing day of *not* being hit, *not* being terrorized, and *not* having to be in fear for my safety, and with the real-time love, support, guidance and friendship of genuine people who genuinely *get it*,  I healed.  Well....at least I've started healing.

I won't downplay the seriousness of what transpired...depression, fear, anxiety, and a loss of ability to function were there.  Many would have understood better if I had been the recipient of a brutal attack by a stranger, or had lost my partner to death....society's grudging acceptance of a person's hurt and healing seem to be a *bit* more lenient in those circumstances. But for every "get over it" reaction this story has wrought, there have been a dozen emails and notes here of support, kindness and compassion. For every imbecile who said "you deserved it" or "you brought it on yourself", there was an outpouring of understanding, and encouragement from those who truly live in this reality.

The good news is I am about to return "home" after bouncing around like a balloon.  Not to the ex, but to the geographic area that I mark as home....with, ironically, the love, support, friendship and companionship of one of "his" other former victims, who wasn't as fortunate in the healing process. The gift of love and healing I received has to be carried on and passed on to her...and after hours and hours of talking, it's plain to us both that the circumstances of *his* abuse were so unique, that it sometimes seems that only someone who's been there, done that, can truly empathize and understand.  It's my fervent hope to bring laughter, acceptance, and healing to her life as well as enrich my own with her friendship.

The screen ID "MstrssLace" is going to die, by the way.  "Lace" was his delegation of name...not my choice.  In celebration of freedom (and all that goes with it), I go back to just being me.  And at my age, with my baggage (as dearly won as a full set of Louis Viton and in many ways, more expensive, lol), I find that being "ME" is pretty damn nice. 

It's time...beyond time...to stop sympathizing, and start using this as a vehicle to ensure that he, and every other predatory abuser, knows that their antics will NOT be tolerated in the BDSM community.  Nothing grandly organized, nothing subversive or dark.  Just a simple message. "We in the BDSM community....refute your right to inject YOUR behaviors into OUR world."

My thanks go out to each and every one of you who wrote to me here, and to my email.  And more, to those who didn't write...but who simply read the information, and acknowledged that *you* would never involve yourselves in an abusive relationship, in either role....abuser, or victim. It sometimes takes a lot of guts and determination to not hit someone who's pissed you off...rage is a powerful drug, after all.  But most of you out here, men, women, dominants and submissives, manage to do it.  You're the real "heroes" in life...you deal with your frustrations and fears and anger in acceptable manners.  You don't abuse. 

Thanks also extend to those organization and event coordinators who took the time and energy to listen objectively, ask for facts, ask tough questions, weigh the evidence and personal testimonies, and agreed to *NOT* allow access to your domains, where the hunting-grounds for victims equates to "easy pickings".  Your courage to take a stand helped create a much safer environment where we can meet in a common place and time.  You too, are heroes in my eyes...you protected not just one, but hundreds of women in one fell swoop....by making it clear that your event/organization wasn't open to predatory abusers of record.

Cockroaches run from light and exposure.....whether they have six legs...or just two; unless they become emboldened by tolerance of their presence.  My thanks again, to everyone who not only shines a light...but raises a foot to stomp the bugs and send the message...NOT IN MY HOUSE. 

Jean

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