RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism

RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (Full Version)

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rulemylife -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 11:16:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Obama intends to eliminate private insurance, in his own words. Here, let me help out. You can then see the remarks in your edited video in the context they were given. AMA - Obama Addresses Physicians at AMA Meeting: Transcript Obama Addresses Physicians at AMA Meeting: Transcript of President Obama's Remarks. June 15, 2009. 2009 Annual Meeting of the AMA House of Delegates

Politesub53 -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 11:28:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Even with GP's, they being trust holders, it is the same, many of my single friends, single male friends feel awkward going to the GP through the belief that healthcare finance is divided up into the most needy, starting with childcare, mothers, the elderly, the disabled and single supposedly healthy males, somewhere at the bottom of the list, fund allocation areas divided proportionaly. I have been told by my GP a few times, the funding isn't available when I have enquired about different treatments.But the solution I have found, is to get on their nerves, keep complaining. Anerin, I have never ever heard any single males in the UK say anything like the wording in your post with regards to health care. Since Sanity considers you the voice of reason, maybe we can have some evidence to support your claim. I would also like to know which treatments you have been denied on a cost basis, as I have never been told that in all my 56 years.

Brain -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 11:30:38 AM)
That statement is simply not true. You can still get private insurance in Canada. You can still get Blue Cross in Canada. Stop making things up. Canada has single-payer and still has private insurance. You can have both, so stop misrepresenting what Obama said and stop scaring people. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For over 60 years, the Blue Cross® name has been synonymous with affordable quality products and personalized service for millions of Canadians. The Blue Cross name is contained in a variety of trade-marks owned by the Canadian Association of Blue Cross Plans (the Association). Use of these trade-marks is licensed by the Association to independent Member Plans representing all regions in Canada. Under the terms of these licenses, Member Plans are required to meet certain performance and financial standards. Performance is monitored regularly, and any lack of performance could lead to cancellation of a membership and the license to continue to use the Blue Cross trade-marks. This web site is operated by the Association. This web site contains links to other web sites, which are operated by Members of the Association. The Member web sites contain information about the Blue Cross Plans offered by each of the Members. These web sites are independent of the Association web site. Supplementary health plans for individuals, families, seniors and employers of all sizes continue to be the specialty of the Blue Cross Member Plans. The plans provide supplementary health and dental benefits, including prescription drugs, vision care, semi-private & private hospital rooms, short and long term disability, emergency medical travel, ambulance, home nursing, chiropractic and life insurance. Blue Cross Member Plans provide the strength, security and stability you can depend on. http://www.bluecross.ca/ quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Obama intends to eliminate private insurance, in his own words. Honesty would work so much better for him and for the Democrats, but instead they favor the two-faced approach, which just takes away all of their credibility as it well should. What we need is an honest debate, and not all these damned lies from our national leaders.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 11:32:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Single payer will by definition eliminate employer coverage, which is what most people refer to as private coverage. You're changing the terms of the debate in the middle of the discussion. Are we talking about eliminating private insurance companies, or eliminating the link between employers and health care? Because those are two entirely different topics.

Politesub53 -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 11:35:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity The article I quoted claims British dentists don't clean people's teeth, the one quoted claimed that's just something American dentists do to satisfy insurance companies: quote: "But that was like . . . 10 minutes!" I said in disbelief. "What about the teeth-cleaning?" "Your teeth are perfectly clean," he replied. "And where they weren't, I gave them a scrub. Don't let those American dentists fool you. No, the article you quoted ( One persons view ) is that NHS dentists dont clean peoples teeth long enough. The fact is, they clean them enough to get the job done, as your own quote says "Dont let your American dentist fool you" Its quite easy to understand, if you are on insurance, or paying unlimited sums of cash, you can sit in the chair as long as you wish. That is hardly the same as the claim you are making.

Brain -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 11:37:33 AM)
You're the one who's not being honest Sanity. Either you don't know what you're talking about or your lying. I'm sorry to have to say that but that's the way it is as Walter Cronkite used to say

Sanity -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 11:40:09 AM)
I went back and, surprise surprise, there was a bit of miscommunication between you and I. No, I've never tried to or meant to claim that all private coverage would be outlawed, but I am saying that nationalized health care or a very thorough government takeover of the entire health care industry (beginning with the insurance industry) is the obvious goal. Once you're the one writing the checks, you're the one in charge.

Politesub53 -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 11:40:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse If the government takes over health care, the private companies will be put out of business. There will be no other option,,,, More bullshit, you didnt reply last time i called you on it either. If anything private companies in the UK are expanding to cope with a rising demand. The demand is due to people living longer, ironically partly due to better health care, and also a quickly increasing population.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 11:47:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I went back and, surprise surprise, there was a bit of miscommunication between you and I. No, I've never tried to or meant to claim that all private coverage would be outlawed, but I am saying that nationalized health care or a very thorough government takeover of the entire health care industry (beginning with the insurance industry) is the obvious goal. Once you're the one writing the checks, you're the one in charge. If it works better than what we have, so what? The current system is unsustainable. It's fatally flawed in numerous ways, and everything about it that doesn't work is getting worse every year. Everything. Almost every other country in the world is using some variation of government health care, and with almost no exceptions, it works better than what we're doing. By almost every measurable standard. So what's the problem with doing it that way, again?

Sanity -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 11:50:49 AM)
Funny how this goes back and forth between, "...if the British have it this way then that's exactly how Americans will have it." and "Obama says we're not going in their direction at all, so ignore the horror stories you hear about Britain, etc." Fact is, Obama and his cronies are on record bashing insurance companies and even promising to eliminate them, we've seen the video of it so it's little use denying it. quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse If the government takes over health care, the private companies will be put out of business. There will be no other option,,,, More bullshit, you didnt reply last time i called you on it either. If anything private companies in the UK are expanding to cope with a rising demand. The demand is due to people living longer, ironically partly due to better health care, and also a quickly increasing population.

Sanity -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 11:54:14 AM)
The problem is the dishonest debate, to begin with. If that's what Obama wants we should debate that, not the smoke and mirrors he's trying to present. Secondary debates are extensive beyond that. Where to start? quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I went back and, surprise surprise, there was a bit of miscommunication between you and I. No, I've never tried to or meant to claim that all private coverage would be outlawed, but I am saying that nationalized health care or a very thorough government takeover of the entire health care industry (beginning with the insurance industry) is the obvious goal. Once you're the one writing the checks, you're the one in charge. If it works better than what we have, so what? The current system is unsustainable. It's fatally flawed in numerous ways, and everything about it that doesn't work is getting worse every year. Everything. Almost every other country in the world is using some variation of government health care, and with almost no exceptions, it works better than what we're doing. By almost every measurable standard. So what's the problem with doing it that way, again?

rulemylife -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 11:55:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Fact is, Obama and his cronies are on record bashing insurance companies and even promising to eliminate them, we've seen the video of it so it's little use denying it. I already did deny it and challenged you to go to the actual record of what was said instead of some bullshit You Tube compilation of quotes taken out of context.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 11:56:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Fact is, Obama and his cronies are on record bashing insurance companies and even promising to eliminate them, we've seen the video of it so it's little use denying it. How many people have to remind you that what you're saying is absolutely false, and how many times do we have to do it, before you stop repeating it? You just admitted it yourself, and here you are doing it again.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 11:59:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity The problem is the dishonest debate, to begin with. If that's what Obama wants we should debate that, not the smoke and mirrors he's trying to present. Where's the dishonesty? His ultimate goal is to move the US toward single-payer, and he's said it straight up. He sees whatever he can get out of this summer's debate as a huge step in that direction. What part of that is dishonest?

Politesub53 -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 12:02:20 PM)
Not really, the fact is private health companies are doing okay for those who want it, at least here in the UK. Several of you have held up the UK and Canada as poor examples ( Such as your post about dental care ) All I am doing is posting the facts and asking for them to be proved wrong. I think the problem many have is its the Democrats taking the initiative. Let me ask you this, if any new system stops insurance companies making vast profits from health insurance, what exactly is the problem?

Sanity -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 12:02:53 PM)
I believe that the video was very clear in what it shows, we'll just have to disagree on it I suppose. Video doesn't lie, and you can only edit so much. What Obama said in the clips is absolute, and to me it's absolute proof that he's being duplicitous regarding his true position. He acts like this is a city council debate, and he isn't aware that he's in the big leagues now where people take the time to go back and research these kinds of things.

Politesub53 -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 12:05:28 PM)
Surely splicing several different clips can make a speech look skewed though ?

Sanity -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 12:06:00 PM)
Eliminate is different than outlaw. By eliminate I simply mean, cause them to cease to exist as we now know them. quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Fact is, Obama and his cronies are on record bashing insurance companies and even promising to eliminate them, we've seen the video of it so it's little use denying it. How many people have to remind you that what you're saying is absolutely false, and how many times do we have to do it, before you stop repeating it? You just admitted it yourself, and here you are doing it again.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 12:08:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Surely splicing several different clips can make a speech look skewed though ? But even in this case, it doesn't. That video clearly shows Obam saying that he wants to eliminate employer-based health coverage, and institute single-payer. And that's all he says. That's his position, and he makes no bones about it. There's nothing skewed, nothing duplicitous about it at all. That's what he wants, and he says it straight up. How anyone could call that proof that he's not being honest is incredible to me.

Sanity -> RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism (8/15/2009 12:10:56 PM)
What shows the duplicity is the later video in which he tells the AMA that isn't what he intends to do at all. What he says depends entirely on who his audience is.

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