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RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 12:11:59 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


What shows the duplicity is the later video in which he tells the AMA that isn't what he intends to do at all.

What he says depends entirely on who his audience is.



What does he say, exactly? What video?

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RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 12:13:21 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
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From: SW London (UK)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Video doesn't lie



No of course not...


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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 12:14:32 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Eliminate is different than outlaw. By eliminate I simply mean, cause them to cease to exist as we now know them.


Good! Since the way they exist as we now know them is literally bankrupting our economy, not to mention killing tens of thousands of people each year because they can't get insurance, I can think of no better outcome than the insurance companies "ceasing to exist as we now know them"  and replacing that model with something that's been proven to work better. Again, why on earth do you see this as a problem?

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 8/15/2009 12:17:45 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 12:17:39 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Thanks, rml, for providing the link.

Here the entire paragraph from Obama's 2009 speech to the AMA, effectively proving the duplicity:

quote:

"What are not legitimate concerns are those being put forward claiming a public option is somehow a Trojan horse for a single-payer system. I'll be honest. There are countries where a single-payer system may be working. But I believe – and I've even taken some flak from members of my own party for this belief – that it is important for us to build on our traditions here in the United States. So, when you hear the naysayers claim that I'm trying to bring about government-run health care, know this – they are not telling the truth."

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/about-ama/our-people/house-delegates/2009-annual-meeting/speeches/president-obama-speech.shtml




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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 12:24:36 PM   
Sanity


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Sorry Panda, that would be a great debate, but I have a date with the two most important women in my life right now...

You've met one of them in a way, her and I are taking my mother out for a late breakfast.

Maybe some other time, eh?


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Eliminate is different than outlaw. By eliminate I simply mean, cause them to cease to exist as we now know them.


Good! Since the way they exist as we now know them is literally bankrupting our economy, not to mention killing tens of thousands of people each year because they can't get insurance, I can think of no better outcome than the insurance companies "ceasing to exist as we now know them"  and replacing that model with something that's been proven to work better. Again, why on earth do you see this as a problem?


< Message edited by Sanity -- 8/15/2009 12:27:31 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 12:24:45 PM   
stella41b


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From: SW London (UK)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If the government takes over health care, the private companies will be put out of business. There will be no other option,,,,


More bullshit, you didnt reply last time i called you on it either. If anything private companies in the UK are expanding to cope with a rising demand. The demand is due to people living longer, ironically partly due to better health care, and also a quickly increasing population.


Agreed with PS53 this is complete rubbish. This is not to mention the private companies that are working within the NHS framework for example cleaning companies and catering companies, the agencies that supply the staff and so on.

What exactly is the big issue here, is it that Obama is a Democrat? Is that it?

I mean, if it's not going to make much difference to the costs of premiums, but grant access to decent health care for people who currently don't have that good access, then surely it's a good thing irrespective of whether it's state funded or not, is it not?

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 12:31:56 PM   
LillyoftheVally


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

What exactly is the big issue here, is it that Obama is a Democrat? Is that it?


ding ding ding ding, we have a winner

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 12:33:18 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I believe that the video was very clear in what it shows, we'll just have to disagree on it I suppose. Video doesn't lie, and you can only edit so much. What Obama said in the clips is absolute, and to me it's absolute proof that he's being duplicitous regarding his true position.



That is absolutely, by far, the single biggest piece of bullshit I have ever heard said on these boards, and it's definitely in the top five of bullshit I have heard anywhere.

And the saddest part is you know it.

So I'm not even going to stoop to debating it.

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 12:34:42 PM   
zenny


Posts: 275
Joined: 2/13/2008
Status: offline 		That is the issue you would like it to be as it is irrelevant. However, as stated, it is irrelevant. It is unfortunately that those is political office are exempt from libel and slander laws. It is even more a shame that those in political office cannot be sued for outright lies - if by no one else, then at least the government such that it, as an entity can protect itself from some forms of misuse.

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 12:44:14 PM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

That is the issue you would like it to be as it is irrelevant. However, as stated, it is irrelevant. It is unfortunately that those is political office are exempt from libel and slander laws. It is even more a shame that those in political office cannot be sued for outright lies - if by no one else, then at least the government such that it, as an entity can protect itself from some forms of misuse.



It's not irrelevant. Several Republican leaders have flat out openly admitted it, noting that if they can sink this, "it will be Obama's Waterloo."

Literally, what's in the legislation doesn't matter to them. What matters is that it's Obama's lead issue.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/15/2009 12:46:20 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 12:45:32 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

That is the issue you would like it to be as it is irrelevant. However, as stated, it is irrelevant. It is unfortunately that those is political office are exempt from libel and slander laws. It is even more a shame that those in political office cannot be sued for outright lies - if by no one else, then at least the government such that it, as an entity can protect itself from some forms of misuse.



An absolutely untrue statement.





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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 12:48:18 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Perhaps the poster (no profile, gender unknown) meant truth in advertising laws.

That, however, would be a First Amendment issue. Political speech is protected, regardless of truth.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/15/2009 12:49:22 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 12:50:14 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Thanks, rml, for providing the link.

Here the entire paragraph from Obama's 2009 speech to the AMA, effectively proving the duplicity:

quote:

"What are not legitimate concerns are those being put forward claiming a public option is somehow a Trojan horse for a single-payer system. I'll be honest. There are countries where a single-payer system may be working. But I believe – and I've even taken some flak from members of my own party for this belief – that it is important for us to build on our traditions here in the United States. So, when you hear the naysayers claim that I'm trying to bring about government-run health care, know this – they are not telling the truth."

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/about-ama/our-people/house-delegates/2009-annual-meeting/speeches/president-obama-speech.shtml





Just what am I missing here that proves any duplicity?

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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 12:57:40 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Sorry Panda, that would be a great debate, but I have a date with the two most important women in my life right now...

You've met one of them in a way, her and I are taking my mother out for a late breakfast.

Maybe some other time, eh?



I don't blame you. Given a choice between spending a few hours with that little charmer and spending a few hours arguing with me, you'd have to be crazy to stay here arguing with me. Have a great time, and say hi for me.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 1:10:32 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally


quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

What exactly is the big issue here, is it that Obama is a Democrat? Is that it?


ding ding ding ding, we have a winner


Even more than that, the traditional American mistrust of government often borders on - or even exceeds - the irrational. This issue is a prime example, and the republican leadership has been exploiting that brilliantly. Some democratic senators have even taken to asking, at their town hall meetings, "How many of you who are against goverment-run health care  are on Medicare? Raise your hands, please." Invariably, large numbers of people in the audience raise their hands. The senators then ask, "How many of you want to give up your Medicare?" Typically, no hands go up. The senators then point out, "You're already on a government-run health care program." Some senators who've used this trick have actually been booed by the crowd; I'm not sure if it's because they don't believe them, or if they resent being checkmated like that. Once again, I'm amazed at how so many conservatives are able to believe two completely contradictory things at the same time, and never grasp that the two positions simply can not both be true.

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In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 2:02:05 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Dennis Kucinich-HealthCare briefing in Washington, DC

How to help

Become a part of the growing single payer movement

Visit PDA and CNA on the web

Support State Single-Payer initiatives at the national and state.level

Tell your congressional representative and Democratic Leaders in Congress to support the Kucinich amendment to HR 3200.

Tell your congressional representative to support HR 676

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWXRwrYa4oU

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 2:07:43 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
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Status: offline 		Health Care in America - Special Reports from CNN.com Check out the Bills House,Senate

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2009/health.care/index.html

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 2:12:20 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Video: President Obama's Weekly Address - Real Conversations About Health Insurance Reform

The President talks about how the chatter and ruckus around health insurance reform on television obscures the reality of what's happening in America. He discusses how in most towns people and Members of Congress are having constructive conversations, and how people are learning how reform will help them and their families with the real problems they have faced with the insurance system.

Click story link below to see video

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Weekly-Address-Real-Conversations-about-Health-Insurance-Reform/

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 2:17:59 PM   
LillyoftheVally


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Joined: 7/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Once again, I'm amazed at how so many conservatives are able to believe two completely contradictory things at the same time, and never grasp that the two positions simply can not both be true.


Doublethink, I think we can all be capable of it

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Britons defend their health care from US criticism - 8/15/2009 2:23:15 PM   
Brain


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Status: offline 		Tackling Myths, Lies About Health Care Reform and Older Americans to Get to the Truth - AARP Bulletin Today

Here are some of the persistent myths about health care reform and older Americans, how they arose, and what the three leading current proposals­—a House bill, a Senate health committee bill and a set of options still being considered by the Senate Finance Committee—actually say about those issues.

Read Full Story at bulletin.aarp.org

http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourhealth/policy/articles/health_care_reform2.1.html

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Profile   Post #: 120
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