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Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right to ... - 8/15/2009 9:16:35 AM   
Blaakmaan


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Does a Master/Dom/Domme owe anything to his/her submissive or slave?

Is there anything that a submissive or slave has a right to expect from his/her Master/Dom/Domme?

If so, what?
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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 9:21:28 AM   
cornflakegirl


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Respect for agreed upon boundaries, if any.

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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 9:27:32 AM   
lovingpet


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In all fairness I don't want anyone to OWE me anything, I prefer they freely give of themselves to me. I also do not want to have to meet a list of demands, but rather give of myself as much as I am able.

As far as whether or not, in theory, there is any rights/owings within a D/s relationship. That will depend on the couple. Some will not enter into a relationship without some basic groundrules expected. Others go in expecting nothing. Still others go in with the mind to EARN those things they value. This is matter of compatibility and open communication.

lovingpet

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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 9:31:46 AM   
AnimusRex


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Op, you are asking, in effect, is there a code of conduct or rule for how BDSM relationships are to be conducted?

I wonder how anyone envisions these codes being enforced- The Kinky Kops might get called? One party would sue in the Kinky Kourt?

In all relationships- BDSM or vanilla- we are free to choose our own limits, and decide for ourselves what is acceptable for us. The only real enforcement is to come to an agreement, or walk away.

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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 9:31:55 AM   
DesFIP


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Same things other people expect in their relationships and often don't get: honesty, straightforwardness, kindness, caring, acceptance, etc.

But just because you expect them, and even if the other party claims to want them also, doesn't mean it will happen. Lots of peeps out there who lie to themselves and everyone else. Nobody ever says on a first date "By the way, I'm passive aggressive and always sabotage my own relationships and then blame the other person". Or a second or twentieth date either.

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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 9:50:21 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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I expect him to keep his word. Simple really.

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Nah I am not happy to see you either

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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 10:03:27 AM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

Does a Master/Dom/Domme owe anything to his/her submissive or slave?



I do not believe Sir owes me anything, however, if he wishes to enjoy a happy, healthy pet, he might owe it to himself to provide, at least, essential needs for the dynamic.

quote:

Is there anything that a submissive or slave has a right to expect from his/her Master/Dom/Domme?


My philosophy; liberty, with no expectations (including those for unfavorable results); may sound directionless, but I can be versatile and do not wish to limit myself.

Kim


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Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 11:30:42 AM   
IrishMist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

Does a Master/Dom/Domme owe anything to his/her submissive or slave?

Is there anything that a submissive or slave has a right to expect from his/her Master/Dom/Domme?

If so, what?


Speaking for a personal perspective only:

No and No

< Message edited by IrishMist -- 8/15/2009 11:31:01 AM >


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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 12:06:18 PM   
slavekal


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Of course.  Honesty, safety, genuine human concern.  Even a dog has a right to food, clean water, and exercise.

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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 12:22:38 PM   
leadership527


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This question is just so.... wrong that I don't even know where to start... not that it's stupid. But it's a self-defeating question to which there is no right answer.

OK, how about the word "owed". No, nothing is "owed" in a relationship. Relationships are one of the most karmically perfect things I've ever seen. You put in what you want to and you get out what you deserve. If the dom puts in nothing... well... there ya go. You'd do better to think, "What do I owe myself? How much do I want to get out of this? Am I willing to pay the piper for whatever that is?" But if you assume that your partner is not a total fool, then you gotta figure that they are going to want to get their needs and desires met somehow and they're going to expect it in equal proportions to whatever you demand from them.

The same thing can be said of the word "rights". Let's suppose for a moment that I agreed... the slave has no rights at all. So..... when it all goes belly up, the slave says, 'fuck you, I've had enough.' And you say, 'But you agreed you aren't owed anything." then what? Even if you are totally right, how does that help you? The relationship is over. You have no sub or slave. How does that work out well?

What Carol expects from me is that I will use the authority she has given me to our benefit... that would be hers and mine both. She agrees to enter ever more deeply into submission because her investment is paying out for her. She has no rights, nor do I owe her anything. But there are consequences to the decisions I make as her master.

Edited to add: I suppose I should've mentioned that I have no rights and she doesn't owe me anything either. This isn't a master/slave thing... it's a relationship thing.

I suppose you can structure any deal you want with your sub/slave. But honestly, if there's nothing in it for the other party in the agreement, it's hard to see how it can last beyond the initial rush of fantasy.

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 8/15/2009 1:12:10 PM >


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 1:08:06 PM   
tightropes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

Does a Master/Dom/Domme owe anything to his/her submissive or slave?

Is there anything that a submissive or slave has a right to expect from his/her Master/Dom/Domme?

If so, what?



Sometimes I think that the D/s world is more preoccupied about rights, duties, privileges and expectations than the legal or ecclesiastical world.  And I think Leadership527 (Jeff) had it right in saying "I suppose you can structure any deal you want with your sub/slave. But honestly, if there's nothing in it for the other party in the agreement, it's hard to see how it can last beyond the initial rush of fantasy."

Before turning to the message board I read yet another California Domme's profile proclaiming that she didn't give a hoot what the submissive wanted or cared, that he was there only to serve her wants and needs and that while she isn't a "pro" he had better have financial resources to take care of her and her desires.

Well, perhaps there are many submissives out there for whom that approach resonates but often these same Dommes bemoan that all the submissives are wannabes who make promises in emails but never follow through.  Surprise.  NOT.

A submissive has a right to expect anything he or she wants from the dominant.  If the dominant doesn't particularly want such a submissive, then there will be no relationship.  Similarly, if the dominant wants the moon, the sun and the stars (I'm sure I've left some things out), that's fine but if few if any interesting submissives come a knocking, do not be surprised.  Then again, if the dominant finds her/his submissive who wants to be treated like dirt, more power to both of them.

A D/s relationship is a relationship. Of course, there are some dominants who claim their connection with their submissive isn't a relationship as that connotes an attachment or obligations the dominant refuses to assume.  So we can call those liaisons a D/s connection.  Either which way, each of us has some sense of what we WANT in a D/s relationship.  Hopefully we will pursue what we want.  In that sense, my view is that submissives, like dominants, have a right to expect that their wants will be met and if the other party to the relationship doesn't meet those wants hopefully the frustrated party will leave and the relationship will not and should not endure. 

So, the right isn't some legal obligation nor is there a corresponding legal duty (what is owed).  Rather, a submissive has the right to pursue his or her wants and desires.  If the submissive desires a relationship in which he or she relinquishes all control and in which the dominant may act arbitrarily, selfishly, dishonestly or the like, then so be it.  Thank goodness most of us have enough self respect (particularly as we age) not to want such relationships, even if we want occasional fantastic episodes reflecting that kind of caprice. 

My sense is that in most 'successful' and enduring D/s relationships the dominants may deny that they have any obligations toward their submissives (other than to "protect" them because that, after all, is their role {lol}) but in fact do seek to satisfy the needs and expectations of their submissives either because they know that if they don't the relationship will crumble or because, perish the thought, they have warm and caring emotional ties to their submissives and actually feel some sense of obligation, a rather human trait.

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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 1:14:56 PM   
NuevaVida


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Simply put, I expect  him to be who he says he is.  Everything falls into place after that.

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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 1:53:21 PM   
shadowowl


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Honesty mostly.
but all subs/slaves have the right to a safe and healthy experiance regardless of agreed upon terms  but that's just my opinion. 
ofcourse who's standard you use for safe and healthy may change the situation so best to ask before hand. :)
and should respect limits and safewords if any used  though I know a  lot people don't use safewords even if they should..
 

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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 2:05:39 PM   
catize


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quote:

Does a Master/Dom/Domme owe anything to his/her submissive or slave?  

That depends on whether you see it as a score-card or a relationship. 


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"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 2:08:16 PM   
Lockit


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I give lots and he give's lot's and it is good that way. When it comes to being owed... you might as well give it up because that is no way to handle any relationship, however you do it. Keeping score might be good in sports... but has no place in a relationship.

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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 2:12:03 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
That depends on whether you see it as a score-card or a relationship. 

bingo!


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to catize)
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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/15/2009 6:55:50 PM   
littlewonder


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I expect him to be a dominant personality male who doesn't lie to me. Other than that, no.

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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/16/2009 5:56:20 AM   
gypsygrl


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If the two are married, or have some other state sanctioned civil union, then yes, there are certain rights that come with marriage/civil union, garunteed by law.

If they aren't married, then, no, the sub/slave has no right to expect anything from the relationship.  Of course, neither does the Dom/Master.  'Cause, in the state's eyes, they're just friends, aquaintences, lovers, housemates (etc) and these casual relationships have no legal status in our society.  In order for a right to be a right, it must be enforced/garunteed by something, and in our coutry this enforcer/garuntor is the state.  If a relationship isn't legally recognized, there can be no rights related to it.

< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 8/16/2009 6:02:30 AM >


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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/16/2009 6:00:04 AM   
gypsygrl


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quote:

Edited to add: I suppose I should've mentioned that I have no rights and she doesn't owe me anything either. This isn't a master/slave thing... it's a relationship thing.



I love your post, especially this qualifier.  I would only point out that the two of you are married.  So, both of you do have some rights that come from the relationship.  Just not the D/s part of the relationship. 

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


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RE: Is There Anything a Submissive or Slave Has a Right... - 8/16/2009 7:15:06 AM   
DarkSteven


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Someone once posted (and I wish I could remember who and when) that a D type gets his/her wants met, and an s type gets his/her needs met.  I like that way of framing it.


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"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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