Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (Full Version)

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Brain -> Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/15/2009 6:45:17 PM)

Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy
These bastards will destroy the planet and kill us all!

Email from American Petroleum Institute outlines plan to create appearance of public opposition to Obama's climate and energy reform

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/aug/14/us-lobbying



MarsBonfire -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/15/2009 6:46:56 PM)

Big surprise.



TheHeretic -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/15/2009 8:15:20 PM)

So that's why gas prices are going back up!  Money well spent, I suppose.  The Democrats have already started drawing the lines for '10, so I hope big oil makes them mighty uncomfortable on the path they have chosen.



Sanity -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/15/2009 8:26:58 PM)


I agree. Send the oil lobby all your spare change... they need our help.

quote:


Study: Global warming bill could cost 2.4 million jobs, $1,250 per household


A carbon emissions plan under consideration in Washington aimed at global warming and climate change could cost the U.S. economy between 1.8 million and 2.4 million jobs over the next two decades, including up to 56,700 in Wisconsin, according to a new study.

The study, released Wednesday by the National Association of Manufacturers and the American Council for Capital Formation, worries about plans of Democrats and Obama administration plans that would put caps and fees on carbon emissions and pollution.

The business study says the climate bill would increase costs that would be passed onto consumers and that a U.S. household would lose as much as $250 annually by 2020 and $1,250 by 2030. Also, according to the study, the GDP could lose 2.4 percent of its value by 2030.

“Wisconsin citizens can expect higher electric bills, higher heating bills and higher gasoline prices if Congress passes the Waxman-Markey bill,” said James Haney, president of Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce, the state's largest business lobby, in a statement released Thursday. “At a time when we are struggling to keep high-paying manufacturing jobs in our state, this bill would take us in the wrong direction with tens of thousands of additional lost jobs.”



http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2009/08/10/daily47.html



Brain -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/15/2009 8:55:51 PM)

No, this is why gas prices are going back up:

Top energy economist: World oil supplies are rapidly depleting

A stark assessment from the International Energy Agency's chief economist concludes that the world's top oil fields have already surpassed peak production and that the world's oil supplies are running out faster than predicted.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/276889



quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

So that's why gas prices are going back up!  Money well spent, I suppose.  The Democrats have already started drawing the lines for '10, so I hope big oil makes them mighty uncomfortable on the path they have chosen.




MasterG2kTR -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/15/2009 9:26:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

No, this is why gas prices are going back up:

Top energy economist: World oil supplies are rapidly depleting

A stark assessment from the International Energy Agency's chief economist concludes that the world's top oil fields have already surpassed peak production and that the world's oil supplies are running out faster than predicted.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/276889



quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

So that's why gas prices are going back up!  Money well spent, I suppose.  The Democrats have already started drawing the lines for '10, so I hope big oil makes them mighty uncomfortable on the path they have chosen.





That's a bunch of crap that we've heard before. 30 years ago we were told that there was only 20 years worth of oil left to be extracted from the earth. There is a glut of oil in the world market right now, and vast untapped reserves still waiting to be exploited.



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/15/2009 9:40:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterG2kTR

That's a bunch of crap that we've heard before. 30 years ago we were told that there was only 20 years worth of oil left to be extracted from the earth. There is a glut of oil in the world market right now, and vast untapped reserves still waiting to be exploited.



No, it's not crap, unfortunately. Google "peak oil" and read up for an hour or so. The reason there's a glut in oil is that demand is down because of the global recession, not because of large supplies or an excess production capacity. And whatever "untapped reserves" there are left to be drilled are nothing compared to the large Middle Eastern fields that are now running out. If those untapped reserves were really comparable to the larger fields, they wouldn't be untapped - they'd have been drilled years ago. There's just no question at all we're running out of oil; the only question is how fast.



Louve00 -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/16/2009 5:53:14 AM)

I am having a bit of trouble processing this information.  I saw on the news a while back that OPEC was going to cut the production of oil because the demand has gone down. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Oil/idUSTRE51C3TM20090213?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

Not quite the same thing as we're running out of oil, even though BP and Conoco Phillips aren't OPEC companies, they are by far much, much smaller.  I also heard that the US can produce 3% of its needs, when it comes to oil.  If that 3% is running out of oil, we may not be running out, after all.  Well...WE, in America, might.  Wouldn't that be all the more reason to look for alternative energy, if we are striving to be energy dependant?  

Maybe I just need to get me some coffee, this morning.   



DomImus -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/16/2009 8:13:18 AM)

So you think there aren't supporters of the whole global warming thing that won't financially benefit if green strategies are adopted? Both sides are driven by money. It's simply a matter of choosing your demons.



FullCircle -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/16/2009 8:31:33 AM)

The difference is the companies will be small US based not large global conglomerates. You’ll be free from the expense of oil, your air will be cleaner, your people will have healthier lungs, your word regarding the middle east will be seen as objective, your enemies will not be able to so easily name you as a threat.

If the green technology people feel strongly about this you all know where these events are taking place, the strongest voice will ultimately be heard on the day(s).

I'm optimistic the world is changing for the better and hopefully we will not be getting more of the same. We all know it needs to happen sooner or later and existing oil reserves are irrelevant since oil is not only used for energy production.



Sanity -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/16/2009 8:36:16 AM)


So if as you say we're running out of oil, Barack Obama doesn't have any reason to push his Global Warming cap-and-tax (or "energy and jobs elimination") plan, does he.

Especially since the growing middle classes of China and India alone are going to continue to siphon off more and more of the world's total energy production, and continue to dwarf our CO2 releases in the process.

Good news for the environmentalist extremists, don't you think? The poor and elderly people on fixed incomes will freeze during the winters and cook during the summers, etc, but hey - it solves the whole imaginary man-made "Global Warming" problem.

Yippee, we can stop fighting it now.

Hurrah!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

No, it's not crap, unfortunately. Google "peak oil" and read up for an hour or so. The reason there's a glut in oil is that demand is down because of the global recession, not because of large supplies or an excess production capacity. And whatever "untapped reserves" there are left to be drilled are nothing compared to the large Middle Eastern fields that are now running out. If those untapped reserves were really comparable to the larger fields, they wouldn't be untapped - they'd have been drilled years ago. There's just no question at all we're running out of oil; the only question is how fast.



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/16/2009 8:37:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

I am having a bit of trouble processing this information.  I saw on the news a while back that OPEC was going to cut the production of oil because the demand has gone down. 

Not quite the same thing as we're running out of oil, even though BP and Conoco Phillips aren't OPEC companies, they are by far much, much smaller.
 

That was in early February, at the depth of the recession, when demand was reduced to almost nil. It just doesn't make sense for them to keep pumping something nobody's buying. Cutting production was just a short-term response to the temporary reduction in demand; it had nothing to do with an overabundance of oil. As demand (and prices) go back up, they'll boost production.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

I also heard that the US can produce 3% of its needs, when it comes to oil.  If that 3% is running out of oil, we may not be running out, after all.  


I'm not sure what you mean by that. We're definitely running out of oil. There's no question about it. Every country that's pumping oil is running out of oil; the only question is how fast. It's a finite resource - they're not making any more of it. Every drop somebody pumps somewhere is one less drop remaining in the world's reserves.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00
Well...WE, in America, might. 
Wouldn't that be all the more reason to look for alternative energy, if we are striving to be energy dependant? 
  

I think you meant independent, right? In which case, yeah, you're absolutely right. But it's not just an American problem - it's a global problem. The whole world needs to switch over to alternative energies as soon as possible. The health of the American economy is dependent on the health of the world economy. It doesn't do us any good to be crusing along on solar, nuclear, and nuclear-cracked hydrogen if the rest of the world is shut down because they don't have gas for their cars, diesel for their trucks and trains, and fuel oil for their factories.



Musicmystery -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/16/2009 8:43:43 AM)

A radio program reminded me that Carter put solar panels on the roof; Reagan ripped them off.

Sigh.

Americans aren't going to get it until the oil is selling at $200/barrel. Several countries, including China, are going to be ever more rapidly increasing their demand at the same time.

Once again, a solvable problem will be shoved aside until it's a crisis. And drilling ain't gonna change the structural problem.



TheHeretic -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/16/2009 8:44:20 AM)

Panda, you might want to google up a little bit on shale oil (like we are going to let the environmental problems slow us down).  The sooner the middle east and assorted asshat dictators run out of the easy liquid stuff, the sooner we control the biggest petroleum reserves on the planet.




rulemylife -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/16/2009 8:56:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Panda, you might want to google up a little bit on shale oil (like we are going to let the environmental problems slow us down).  The sooner the middle east and assorted asshat dictators run out of the easy liquid stuff, the sooner we control the biggest petroleum reserves on the planet.




It has more to do with being economically feasible than it does with environmental issues, or we would be using it now.



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/16/2009 9:04:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Panda, you might want to google up a little bit on shale oil (like we are going to let the environmental problems slow us down).  The sooner the middle east and assorted asshat dictators run out of the easy liquid stuff, the sooner we control the biggest petroleum reserves on the planet.




Sure, but at what cost? Oil that they pump right out of the ground as pure oil is going for around $70 a barrel right now; how much do you think it will cost when it costs as much as $90 a barrel just to convert it out of shale? When it takes as much as 250 gallons of water to produce one barrel of oil, what do you think the effect will be on an agricultural and recreational area that's already desperate for water? And do you really not care at all about the environmental damage that would be caused to one of the most beautiful areas of the country?



Sanity -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/16/2009 9:07:18 AM)

I remember when Carter did that, it looked like trailer trash had moved into the White House because of that, and because of "Jimmy's"  big stupid grin, and because of his brother Billy.

The only reason that Carter got in was because of Watergate, that was pretty obvious, and he was a one-term-wonder because his popularity was so abysmally low.

Jimmy's solution to the energy problem was indeed similar to today's president - ignore the suffering of everyone too poor to afford skyrocketing energy prices (and the inflation that comes with it), and just let the poorest die off.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

A radio program reminded me that Carter put solar panels on the roof; Reagan ripped them off.

Sigh.



TheHeretic -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/16/2009 9:16:35 AM)

Don't try and make me the environmental bad guy, Panda.  I'm just telling it like it is.  Even if we completely stopped using petroleum for energy tomorrow, we are still going to need the petro-chemicals for all sorts of things.  Scenery isn't going to keep us from getting what we need, and there are a number of ways to extract the oil.




rulemylife -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/16/2009 9:29:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

.... and there are a number of ways to extract the oil.




Which I'm certain you are going to enlighten us on shortly. 

Right?



FullCircle -> RE: Oil Lobby To Fund Campaign Against Obama's Climate Change Strategy (8/16/2009 9:32:50 AM)

Horizontal drilling into venezuala?[8|]

They will not notice a thing if you do it at night time when they are all asleep.



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