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Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 10:06:39 AM   
tazzygirl


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I am extremely disappointed in this turn of events.

White House ready to drop �public option�?HHS official: Insurance cooperatives would be an acceptable alternative


quote:

WASHINGTON - Apparently ready to abandon the idea, President Barack Obama's health secretary said Sunday a government alternative to private health insurance is "not the essential element" of the administration's health care overhaul.


quote:

As proposed by Conrad, the co-ops would receive federal startup money, but then would operate independently of the government. They would have to maintain the same financial reserves that private companies are required to keep to handle unexpectedly high claims.

Republicans say a public option would have unfair advantages that would drive private insurers out of business. Critics say co-ops would not be genuine public options for health insurance.



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RE: Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 10:43:19 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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*facepalm*

And we wonder why Americans are apathetic. Greed, selfishness, graft, and NIMBY win another round.

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RE: Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 10:51:35 AM   
rulemylife


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If he backs down from this then he's just lost the 2012 election 7 months into his Presidency.

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RE: Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 11:04:47 AM   
Louve00


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I saw that on CNN, earlier today.  Although, as ever, I'm not sure what to believe because there were two politicians there and one was saying this, and the other was saying there will be a public option.  I am not jumping to any conclusions, yet, but I'm with RML, and it will be a disappointment to see them drop this. 

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RE: Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 11:23:56 AM   
MarsBonfire


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Thank Palin.
Thank Armey
Thank Grassly
Thank all of the other Republican "Death Eaters."

Remember this come election time.

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RE: Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 11:57:34 AM   
rulemylife


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No, bullshit.

If this turns out to be true put the blame on the spineless Democratic Party where it belongs.

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RE: Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 12:16:49 PM   
DomKen


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The Congressional Democrats who could have simply told teh GOP to sit down and shut and got this done months ago. But the sorry pieces of crap running the committees are so deep in the insurance companies pockets they let this slip away. A true public option would have broken teh insurance lobbies backs and helped our competitiveness internationally while improving our people's health. The fact that it would have likely eliminated teh GOP as a factor for the next generation was just gravy.

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RE: Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 12:24:27 PM   
servantforuse


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Lets blame Sarah Palin and Dick Armey, neither of whom are in congress. Lets not blame the democrats who have a veto proof majority in both houses. Put a fork in it. This bill is done

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RE: Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 12:30:44 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
If he backs down from this then he's just lost the 2012 election 7 months into his Presidency.


We can only hope.



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RE: Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 1:09:04 PM   
Brain


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What happens when private insurance companies cover only healthy people? - BloggingStocks

The federal government and state governments incur higher health care costs per person -- and are less-efficient than the private health insurance companies: the reason those private companies are efficient is that they excluded those who would make them less-efficient in the first place: the less-healthy.

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2009/08/14/what-happens-when-private-insurance-companies-cover-only-healthy/

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RE: Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 5:12:43 PM   
servantforuse


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If that were true, why don't the democrats put a bill on the floor and vote on it ? There must be a lot in that bill that even they can't explain or do not want to explain. Maybe the election in 14 short months has something to do with it.. 

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RE: Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 5:16:11 PM   
Brain


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The real death panels are operating now | MailTribune.com

When Republican politicians and right-wing talking heads bemoan the fictitious "death panels" that they claim would arise from health-care reform, they are concealing a sinister reality from their followers. The ugly fact is that every year we fail to reform the existing system, that failure condemns tens of thousands of people to die — either because they have no insurance or because their insurance companies deny coverage or benefits when they become ill.

The best estimate of the annual death toll among Americans of working age due to lack of insurance or under-insurance is at least 20,000, according to studies conducted over the past decade by medical researchers, and is almost certainly rising as more and more people lose their coverage as costs continue to go up.

Read Full Story at mailtribune

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090815/OPINION/908150306/-1/NEWSMAP




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RE: Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 5:16:24 PM   
LillyoftheVally


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Wait, let me get this right in my head.

The president represents the people

The people have been throwing their arms in the air that they may get a new health service (indeed some of the posters on this thread)

The president decides to listen to the outrage of the people

And the same people bitching at him for the idea are bitching at him for not following it through.

Seriously? How can you justify that in your mind?

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RE: Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 6:05:41 PM   
Brain


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A Public Option Isn’t a Curse, or a Cure
By RICHARD THALER
Published: August 15, 2009

WE clearly don’t need any more distractions from the two main issues of health care reform: how to deal with our large uninsured population and how to make the entire system more cost effective. So, for now, let’s ignore the shouted rhetoric about whether “death panels” want to kill off Grandma or whether President Obama wants to turn the country into a socialist state.

But even if we discard these absurdities, and tune out the raucous scenes at town-hall meetings, one big distraction remains: the question of whether a “public option” should be part of the health care solution. To me, the issue is a red herring, and is getting in the way of genuine reform.

In debating the public option — that is, an insurance option run by the government — the politicians themselves are making exaggerated claims about its pros and cons. We hear from the right that an insurance plan run by the government will drive all private-sector insurers out of business and be the first step toward socialism, if not communism. The left claims that only a public option can give evil insurers the competition they need to create much-needed reform.

To evaluate these contentions, we need to know some details about how a public option would work in practice. And those details have been missing.

For example, President Obama has said that the public plan would be required to break even financially, but Congress hasn’t decided how to make that happen. (Of course, the poor may have to have their health insurance subsidized, but those subsidies could go to both public and privately operated insurance companies.) Nailing down this detail is crucial. If the public option does not have to break even — if, in fact, it is to receive government subsidies — then it is correct to worry that it would destroy competition, not foster it. If the public plan runs a deficit, who will fix it? If it is Congress, we have to worry that what should be economic decisions will turn into political battles.

A second detail is whether the government will grant the public plan the power to impose special deals with suppliers like hospitals and drug companies — a move that would dampen, not enhance, competition with the private sector.
But let’s assume that the public option does have to break even and can’t make any special deals. What should we expect to happen?

Here is a thought experiment: Can you think of a domain where a government-run business competes successfully with private-sector companies? In a town hall meeting last week, President Obama mentioned one such example: the market for overnight shipments. This market now has two main private suppliers, FedEx and UPS, and one public one, the United States Postal Service. When you have to send something overnight, which one do you use? Most shippers choose one of the private companies. (Indeed, even the idea that we need a government-run postal service is doubtful. Sweden has successfully privatized its postal service. Sweden! And the European Union will open mail service to competition in 2011.)

The Postal Service offers another instructive lesson. When it periodically starts running deficits (as it is now) and proposes cost-saving measures like eliminating Saturday delivery or closing tiny post offices, Congress often intervenes under pressure from predictable interest groups like bulk mailers, the 600,000 postal employees, and the users of those tiny offices.

More generally, it is hard to find examples where government-run businesses compete with private companies and win. One reason is that governments are not very good at innovation. As the great 19th-century economist Alfred Marshall wrote, “A government could print a good edition of Shakespeare’s works, but it could not get them written.”

But what about the often-stated fact that Medicare has much lower operating costs than private insurance companies? Won’t this allow the public option to compete successfully? As Victor Fuchs, the dean of American health economists, recently argued in The New England Journal of Medicine, this is not an apt comparison because the new public plan would have marketing and other administrative costs that don’t apply to Medicare with its captive market.

ALL of this leads me to conclude that if we impose sensible rules on the public option, it will neither save nor destroy the health care system because it will simply not get much market share. And if we do not impose those rules, the public option will hurt rather than help.

So here’s some free advice to members of Congress: While you are enjoying your August recess and town hall meetings, instead of arguing about whether to have a public option, argue about the ground rules.

To the Republicans, I say this: If you can get real assurances that the public option has to break even, and that it will get no special deals from suppliers, let the Democrats have it but ask for concessions on tort reform in return. (That could actually save some money.) The resulting public plan will be too small to notice.

To the Democrats, I say this: If you want competition in health care, you won’t get it if the public option can make deals its competitors can’t. So either give the Republicans hard assurances that the public option would have to break even and not get special treatment, or, better yet, just give it up to ensure that some useful health care reform is passed. A public option is neither necessary nor sufficient for achieving the real goals of reform, and those goals are too important to risk losing the war.

Richard H. Thaler is a professor of economics and behavioral science at the Booth School of Business at the University of Chicago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/business/economy/16view.html?_r=5&th&emc=th

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RE: Politics as usual - 8/16/2009 11:54:20 PM   
awmslave


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It would be a win for insurance companies but not a major one. The Obama public option is a actually a sham. It was supposed to pay the same prices to health care providers as private insurers. Private health insurers would have turned it into a place where to dump high cost clients with serious preexisting conditions. According to a new law proposal insurance companies can not refuse service for people with preexisting condition but they can set the price so high that people have only public option choice.  It would make public option uncompetitive with private insurers (as it needs to spend much more per client). Then they would use it as a propaganda tool (pointing out the high cost).
Personally, I think the high prices of medical services in US need to be seriously addressed. There seems to be a popular idea that everybody will pay less insurance than they actually use services. It just does not work this way; some must pay more.

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RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 12:26:17 AM   
Brain


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Obama foes turn to ’60s radical for tactical tips

Opponents of Barack Obama’s healthcare proposals are using the tactics of Saul Alinksy, the legendary leftwing activist who helped inspire the US president when he was a young community organiser, says Dick Armey, head of Freedom Works, a group fighting against universal healthcare.

Mr Armey, who was the Republican majority leader in the House of Representatives for most of the 1990s, said his group, which is behind many of the “tea party” protests that have disrupted town-hall meetings in the past two weeks, draws consciously on the forms of agitation pioneered by Mr Alinsky.

Mr Obama, who worked as a community organizer among unemployed steel workers on Chicago’s South Side in the late 1980s, was heavily influenced by Mr Alinsky, who inspired a generation of radicals in the 1960s. Mr Alinsky believed that packing public meetings with highly vocal activists would sway their outcomes and give people a taste of the power they could exercise when they showed up in numbers.

“What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander,” said Mr Armey, who was one of the leaders of the “Contract with America” Republican landslide in 1994.

“What I think of Alinsky is that he was very good at what he did but what he did was not good,” Mr Armey said. “We don’t organise people to turn up at these town-hall meetings – we don’t provide buses to get them there. But we tell them about the meetings and we suggest good questions they could ask.”

Mr Armey, whose group works closely with the Tea Party Patriots and other conservative organisations round the country, said he thought the anti-reform protests against Mr Obama’s healthcare proposals exceeded the temperature during the August 1994 congressional recess when the Clinton administration’s healthcare plans were shot to pieces.

On Friday Mr Armey announced his resignation from DLA Piper, the Washington-based lobbying firm that he has advised since stepping down from Congress in 2002. Both DLA Piper, which has big healthcare clients including Bristol Myers Squibb, the pharmaceutical company that opposes elements of Mr Obama’s health reforms, and Mr Armey said he had decided to quit in order to spare the firm any further embarrassment by association with Freedom Works.

“We are sorry to see Dick Armey leave,” said DLA Piper in a statement. “But we appreciate his taking the initiative to clear up confusion concerning Freedom Works, [which is] a separate and distinct entity from DLA Piper.”

Mr Armey, 69, predicted that the “grassroots” backlash against what he called Mr Obama’s “hostile government takeover of a sixth of the US economy” would cause the reform to fail spectacularly. But he predicted that supporters of reform would attempt to win over the “bed-wetters caucus” – a group of wavering lawmakers who spanned both parties, he said – with a fear campaign in the autumn.

“In September or October there will be a hyped up outbreak of the swine flu which they’ll say is as bad as the bubonic plague to scare the bed-wetters to vote for healthcare reform,” said Mr Armey. “That is the only way they can push something on to the American people that the American people don’t want.”

Democrats have portrayed groups such as Freedom Works as demagogues out to disrupt town-hall meetings rather than enter into civil debate. Mr Armey said he doubted members of Freedom Works attended meetings to shout down people with whom they disagreed. “I know people have been doing that but that is not the tactics we recommend,” he said.


Read full story at FT.com
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/a6a34fa8-8a85-11de-ad08-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fa6a34fa8-8a85-11de-ad08-00144feabdc0.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=&nclick_check=1

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RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 12:33:07 AM   
Brain


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Obama foes turn to ’60s radical for tactical tips

Opponents of Barack Obama’s healthcare proposals are using the tactics of Saul Alinksy, the legendary leftwing activist who helped inspire the US president when he was a young community organiser, says Dick Armey, head of Freedom Works, a group fighting against universal healthcare.

Mr Armey, who was the Republican majority leader in the House of Representatives for most of the 1990s, said his group, which is behind many of the “tea party” protests that have disrupted town-hall meetings in the past two weeks, draws consciously on the forms of agitation pioneered by Mr Alinsky.

Mr Obama, who worked as a community organizer among unemployed steel workers on Chicago’s South Side in the late 1980s, was heavily influenced by Mr Alinsky, who inspired a generation of radicals in the 1960s. Mr Alinsky believed that packing public meetings with highly vocal activists would sway their outcomes and give people a taste of the power they could exercise when they showed up in numbers.

“What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander,” said Mr Armey, who was one of the leaders of the “Contract with America” Republican landslide in 1994.

“What I think of Alinsky is that he was very good at what he did but what he did was not good,” Mr Armey said. “We don’t organise people to turn up at these town-hall meetings – we don’t provide buses to get them there. But we tell them about the meetings and we suggest good questions they could ask.”

Mr Armey, whose group works closely with the Tea Party Patriots and other conservative organisations round the country, said he thought the anti-reform protests against Mr Obama’s healthcare proposals exceeded the temperature during the August 1994 congressional recess when the Clinton administration’s healthcare plans were shot to pieces.

On Friday Mr Armey announced his resignation from DLA Piper, the Washington-based lobbying firm that he has advised since stepping down from Congress in 2002. Both DLA Piper, which has big healthcare clients including Bristol Myers Squibb, the pharmaceutical company that opposes elements of Mr Obama’s health reforms, and Mr Armey said he had decided to quit in order to spare the firm any further embarrassment by association with Freedom Works.

“We are sorry to see Dick Armey leave,” said DLA Piper in a statement. “But we appreciate his taking the initiative to clear up confusion concerning Freedom Works, [which is] a separate and distinct entity from DLA Piper.”

Mr Armey, 69, predicted that the “grassroots” backlash against what he called Mr Obama’s “hostile government takeover of a sixth of the US economy” would cause the reform to fail spectacularly. But he predicted that supporters of reform would attempt to win over the “bed-wetters caucus” – a group of wavering lawmakers who spanned both parties, he said – with a fear campaign in the autumn.

“In September or October there will be a hyped up outbreak of the swine flu which they’ll say is as bad as the bubonic plague to scare the bed-wetters to vote for healthcare reform,” said Mr Armey. “That is the only way they can push something on to the American people that the American people don’t want.”

Democrats have portrayed groups such as Freedom Works as demagogues out to disrupt town-hall meetings rather than enter into civil debate. Mr Armey said he doubted members of Freedom Works attended meetings to shout down people with whom they disagreed. “I know people have been doing that but that is not the tactics we recommend,” he said.


Read full story at FT.com
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/a6a34fa8-8a85-11de-ad08-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fa6a34fa8-8a85-11de-ad08-00144feabdc0.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=&nclick_check=1


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Lets blame Sarah Palin and Dick Armey, neither of whom are in congress. Lets not blame the democrats who have a veto proof majority in both houses. Put a fork in it. This bill is done


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RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 5:21:52 AM   
lronitulstahp


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hmmmm....post the same thing over and over....Well i s'pose that's ONE way to get your post count up quickly.

i agree with lily. For whatever reason, the American people have spoken. Who knew health insurance a la Ebenezer Scrooge was the majority's opinion? Apparently, only those of us who can afford healthcare should have it. G-d forbid though, some of the most vociferous foes of national coverage should ever have to deal with a serious illness. Let's pray that never happens....because the cost to fight cancer, chronic heart disease, or taking care of a child maimed in an accident will be much more costly than what many yearly maximum payouts can afford. Basically, they'll be fucked. And not in the good way. 

What kills me is the "everyman" that seems to think the insurance companies, and those members of congress (on both sides) that represent the insurance companies, somehow deserve more consideration than the legal citizens of this country. Something akin to the, "I support the death penalty....but I'm pro-life mentality".

There's nothing in it for the guy that works 9-5 busts his ass to support his family and barely has take home pay to speak of once all the bills are paid. However, his thinking goes along party lines, or other knee-jerk reactions to "information" learned around the water cooler. He is the guy that gets all his info from irreputable' news' sources on tv.  "Obama=Democrat=BAD= Socialist= Black Panther= scary=anti-Christian=scary= anti-patriot= scary=death panel...." and so it goes. He doesn't research or find out for himself what is really going on. He works too hard. He's the guy big pharma and their buddies are counting on. He's up in arms without reading a word of a bill or understanding the intracacies of any policy he opposes. Whether it would benefit him or not, he wouldn't know. He drank the Flavor-aid. Too bad it tastes of putrid trash. He is a pawn in the hands of big business, big politico, and big-pharma without any of the stock options or pecuniary benefits.
quote:

 
The rich man is always sold to the institution which makes him rich. Absolutely speaking, the more money, the less virtue
-Thoreau


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RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 6:00:45 AM   
Sanity


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He cross posts too. He posts the same cut-and-paste on multiple threads...


quote:

hmmmm....post the same thing over and over....Well i s'pose that's ONE way to get your post count up quickly.


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RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 6:17:52 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

It would be a win for insurance companies but not a major one. The Obama public option is a actually a sham. It was supposed to pay the same prices to health care providers as private insurers. Private health insurers would have turned it into a place where to dump high cost clients with serious preexisting conditions. According to a new law proposal insurance companies can not refuse service for people with preexisting condition but they can set the price so high that people have only public option choice.  It would make public option uncompetitive with private insurers (as it needs to spend much more per client). Then they would use it as a propaganda tool (pointing out the high cost).
Personally, I think the high prices of medical services in US need to be seriously addressed. There seems to be a popular idea that everybody will pay less insurance than they actually use services. It just does not work this way; some must pay more.



from everything i have read the new law would have made it illegal to drop someone off private insurance because a public option was available.. even employers could not drop their insurance for that reason.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to awmslave)
Profile   Post #: 20
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