RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/16/2009 9:11:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gift4mistress

I find it to be quite pitiful that so many of you think that the only solution to our health care system was to setup a government ran-entity. Personally, what they had in that bill was nothing more than a huge power grabber that wouldn't have controlled any inflation. One reason why that would be true was because it  had no measures to control massive abuse. Anyways, you should be thankful that the people spoke and that we were herd. Instead of sitting there and pouting how you didn't get your way; maybe, we can do some real overhaul to the health care system: i.e... malpractice laws that sets a maximum on how much one can be sued, not giving health care to illegals, and making an incentive for people to take preventive medicine actions (eating healthy and exercising). Creating such measures will save us trillions in the short and long run.

I do know what is sad though. Obama will probably not do anything change the health care system for the greater good. Rather, they are going to pull a Hitler and wait for the right moment to push their agenda on their people. It's only inedible that the health care system is going to collapse if it doesn't get any change soon. In the long run, I don't look at this as a victory for anyone.  



i for one am about tired of the attitude that everyone HAS health care. tell me, when you dont see a Dr, how are you getting preventative care? do you know if your cholesterol level is elevated do to hereditary causes and not diet? you can live the healthiest lifestyle possible and still die from a massive MI. people everyday develop adult on set diabetes and are not overweight. cancer doesnt give a damn what lifestyle you live.

JUST because you TRY to live a healthy life does not replace health care. but so many people have NO access to it. NONE. preventative care for them is an advil and you keep going to work because if you dont, and you miss a check, you lose everything you just worked for.

Overhauling the tort system will put more money into the pockets of those who use it.. the Dr's, hospitals and insurance companies. we wont see a break, on any level. look at gas prices if you have a doubt.




Mercnbeth -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/16/2009 9:35:14 PM)

PACs got their payoff. Expect more access given thought the existing insurance companies, paid for with more taxes. Surprised the Administration surrendered so fast, aren't you? I mean Brain had many more of other peoples opinions to post, and he was real close to an original thought too!

It's those damn Republicans! I'm sure they had this all planned putting Nancy Pelosi as the Speaker of the House, and setting up this Administration. The smartest move was losing any influence in Congress - wow, great way to distance themselves from this disaster. Must have the old Carter Administration advisory committee on the payroll.

Hope this will bring more to the 'Anybody But an Incumbent' party!




rulemylife -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/16/2009 10:26:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gift4mistress

It's only inedible that the health care system is going to collapse if it doesn't get any change soon.  



You mean just because of that nasty food in the hospital vending machines?








Brain -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/16/2009 10:34:33 PM)

Op-Ed: Why We Need Health Care Reform - Barack Obama
The President's OpEd in the NYT's

Read full story
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/opinion/16obama.html?_r=5


Op-Ed Contributor
Why We Need Health Care Reform
By BARACK OBAMA
Published: August 15, 2009

OUR nation is now engaged in a great debate about the future of health care in America. And over the past few weeks, much of the media attention has been focused on the loudest voices. What we haven’t heard are the voices of the millions upon millions of Americans who quietly struggle every day with a system that often works better for the health-insurance companies than it does for them.

These are people like Lori Hitchcock, whom I met in New Hampshire last week. Lori is currently self-employed and trying to start a business, but because she has hepatitis C, she cannot find an insurance company that will cover her. Another woman testified that an insurance company would not cover illnesses related to her internal organs because of an accident she had when she was 5 years old. A man lost his health coverage in the middle of chemotherapy because the insurance company discovered that he had gallstones, which he hadn’t known about when he applied for his policy. Because his treatment was delayed, he died.

I hear more and more stories like these every single day, and it is why we are acting so urgently to pass health-insurance reform this year. I don’t have to explain to the nearly 46 million Americans who don’t have health insurance how important this is. But it’s just as important for Americans who do have health insurance.

There are four main ways the reform we’re proposing will provide more stability and security to every American.

First, if you don’t have health insurance, you will have a choice of high-quality, affordable coverage for yourself and your family — coverage that will stay with you whether you move, change your job or lose your job.

Second, reform will finally bring skyrocketing health care costs under control, which will mean real savings for families, businesses and our government. We’ll cut hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and inefficiency in federal health programs like Medicare and Medicaid and in unwarranted subsidies to insurance companies that do nothing to improve care and everything to improve their profits.

Third, by making Medicare more efficient, we’ll be able to ensure that more tax dollars go directly to caring for seniors instead of enriching insurance companies. This will not only help provide today’s seniors with the benefits they’ve been promised; it will also ensure the long-term health of Medicare for tomorrow’s seniors. And our reforms will also reduce the amount our seniors pay for their prescription drugs.

Lastly, reform will provide every American with some basic consumer protections that will finally hold insurance companies accountable. A 2007 national survey actually shows that insurance companies discriminated against more than 12 million Americans in the previous three years because they had a pre-existing illness or condition. The companies either refused to cover the person, refused to cover a specific illness or condition or charged a higher premium.

We will put an end to these practices. Our reform will prohibit insurance companies from denying coverage because of your medical history. Nor will they be allowed to drop your coverage if you get sick. They will not be able to water down your coverage when you need it most. They will no longer be able to place some arbitrary cap on the amount of coverage you can receive in a given year or in a lifetime. And we will place a limit on how much you can be charged for out-of-pocket expenses. No one in America should go broke because they get sick.

Most important, we will require insurance companies to cover routine checkups, preventive care and screening tests like mammograms and colonoscopies. There’s no reason that we shouldn’t be catching diseases like breast cancer and prostate cancer on the front end. It makes sense, it saves lives and it can also save money.

This is what reform is about. If you don’t have health insurance, you will finally have quality, affordable options once we pass reform. If you have health insurance, we will make sure that no insurance company or government bureaucrat gets between you and the care you need. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. You will not be waiting in any lines. This is not about putting the government in charge of your health insurance. I don’t believe anyone should be in charge of your health care decisions but you and your doctor — not government bureaucrats, not insurance companies.

The long and vigorous debate about health care that’s been taking place over the past few months is a good thing. It’s what America’s all about.

(Page 2 of 2)

But let’s make sure that we talk with one another, and not over one another. We are bound to disagree, but let’s disagree over issues that are real, and not wild misrepresentations that bear no resemblance to anything that anyone has actually proposed. This is a complicated and critical issue, and it deserves a serious debate.

Despite what we’ve seen on television, I believe that serious debate is taking place at kitchen tables all across America. In the past few years, I’ve received countless letters and questions about health care. Some people are in favor of reform, and others have concerns. But almost everyone understands that something must be done. Almost everyone knows that we must start holding insurance companies accountable and give Americans a greater sense of stability and security when it comes to their health care.

I am confident that when all is said and done, we can forge the consensus we need to achieve this goal. We are already closer to achieving health-insurance reform than we have ever been. We have the American Nurses Association and the American Medical Association on board, because our nation’s nurses and doctors know firsthand how badly we need reform. We have broad agreement in Congress on about 80 percent of what we’re trying to do. And we have an agreement from the drug companies to make prescription drugs more affordable for seniors. The AARP supports this policy, and agrees with us that reform must happen this year.

In the coming weeks, the cynics and the naysayers will continue to exploit fear and concerns for political gain. But for all the scare tactics out there, what’s truly scary — truly risky — is the prospect of doing nothing. If we maintain the status quo, we will continue to see 14,000 Americans lose their health insurance every day. Premiums will continue to skyrocket. Our deficit will continue to grow. And insurance companies will continue to profit by discriminating against sick people.

That is not a future I want for my children, or for yours. And that is not a future I want for the United States of America.

In the end, this isn’t about politics. This is about people’s lives and livelihoods. This is about people’s businesses. This is about America’s future, and whether we will be able to look back years from now and say that this was the moment when we made the changes we needed, and gave our children a better life. I believe we can, and I believe we will.





Brain -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/16/2009 10:40:41 PM)

Robert Kennedy Junior said the Republicans are 100% corrupt and Democrats are 60% corrupt. I think Republicans are a major pain in the ass. I can't believe people vote for those capitalist pig treasonous bastards.




rulemylife -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/16/2009 10:43:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Fast reply~
Without the public option, what's the point?



Exactly




Brain -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/16/2009 10:54:45 PM)

Listen to Dennis Kucinich,

Dennis Kucinich-HealthCare briefing in Washington, DC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWXRwrYa4oU

Get Started on 1payer.net
http://www.1payer.net/




Brain -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/17/2009 12:49:11 AM)

Dick Armey = AstroturfNazi
Obama foes turn to ’60s radical for tactical tips

Opponents of Barack Obama’s healthcare proposals are using the tactics of Saul Alinksy, the legendary leftwing activist who helped inspire the US president when he was a young community organiser, says Dick Armey, head of Freedom Works, a group fighting against universal healthcare.

Mr Armey, who was the Republican majority leader in the House of Representatives for most of the 1990s, said his group, which is behind many of the “tea party” protests that have disrupted town-hall meetings in the past two weeks, draws consciously on the forms of agitation pioneered by Mr Alinsky.


Mr Obama, who worked as a community organizer among unemployed steel workers on Chicago’s South Side in the late 1980s, was heavily influenced by Mr Alinsky, who inspired a generation of radicals in the 1960s. Mr Alinsky believed that packing public meetings with highly vocal activists would sway their outcomes and give people a taste of the power they could exercise when they showed up in numbers.

“What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander,” said Mr Armey, who was one of the leaders of the “Contract with America” Republican landslide in 1994.

“What I think of Alinsky is that he was very good at what he did but what he did was not good,” Mr Armey said. “We don’t organise people to turn up at these town-hall meetings – we don’t provide buses to get them there. But we tell them about the meetings and we suggest good questions they could ask.”

Mr Armey, whose group works closely with the Tea Party Patriots and other conservative organisations round the country, said he thought the anti-reform protests against Mr Obama’s healthcare proposals exceeded the temperature during the August 1994 congressional recess when the Clinton administration’s healthcare plans were shot to pieces.

On Friday Mr Armey announced his resignation from DLA Piper, the Washington-based lobbying firm that he has advised since stepping down from Congress in 2002. Both DLA Piper, which has big healthcare clients including Bristol Myers Squibb, the pharmaceutical company that opposes elements of Mr Obama’s health reforms, and Mr Armey said he had decided to quit in order to spare the firm any further embarrassment by association with Freedom Works.

“We are sorry to see Dick Armey leave,” said DLA Piper in a statement. “But we appreciate his taking the initiative to clear up confusion concerning Freedom Works, [which is] a separate and distinct entity from DLA Piper.”

Mr Armey, 69, predicted that the “grassroots” backlash against what he called Mr Obama’s “hostile government takeover of a sixth of the US economy” would cause the reform to fail spectacularly. But he predicted that supporters of reform would attempt to win over the “bed-wetters caucus” – a group of wavering lawmakers who spanned both parties, he said – with a fear campaign in the autumn.

“In September or October there will be a hyped up outbreak of the swine flu which they’ll say is as bad as the bubonic plague to scare the bed-wetters to vote for healthcare reform,” said Mr Armey. “That is the only way they can push something on to the American people that the American people don’t want.”

Democrats have portrayed groups such as Freedom Works as demagogues out to disrupt town-hall meetings rather than enter into civil debate. Mr Armey said he doubted members of Freedom Works attended meetings to shout down people with whom they disagreed. “I know people have been doing that but that is not the tactics we recommend,” he said.


Read full story at FT.com
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/a6a34fa8-8a85-11de-ad08-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fa6a34fa8-8a85-11de-ad08-00144feabdc0.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=&nclick_check=1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Obama is finally admitting the dissent he faced wasn't mobs of astroturf Nazis after all.

The Drudge headline flies a white flag of surrender by the story line....


http://www.drudgereport.com/





Arpig -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/17/2009 2:33:40 AM)

quote:

I think Republicans are a major pain in the ass. I can't believe people vote for those capitalist pig treasonous bastards.
I'm so glad that the debate is staying out of the gutter.....[8|]




Sanity -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/17/2009 3:36:14 AM)


And people accuse me of being extreme..  [sm=lol.gif]


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

I think Republicans are a major pain in the ass. I can't believe people vote for those capitalist pig treasonous bastards.
I'm so glad that the debate is staying out of the gutter.....[8|]




SpinnerofTales -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/17/2009 3:51:48 AM)

quote:

Wasn't it a Democrat who nuked two entire cities? ORIGINAL: Sanity



Once again, I find myself of the same opinion I was in my last post. I am not at all sure that someone who can't tell the incredible differences between our situation at the end of WWII and our situation after 9/11 should be making decisions on what to have for lunch, much less what our national policies should be. Then again, it seems that the right wing has encapsulated its entire policy around "Do nothing, yell "no" to everything that comes along. Make the situation worse. Win next election."




stella41b -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/17/2009 3:57:13 AM)

Hang on, hang on a minute here.

The President is so because he's been democratically elected.

He proposes health care reforms which involve a public option which help 50 million Americans get access to adequate medical care making it universal. Something which is going to benefit Americans as a whole.

But then there's some protesting it, and then when the President considers dropping the reforms there's further protests from the same people.

This doesn't make much sense to me.




Louve00 -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/17/2009 4:18:14 AM)

Nor to me, Stella, but you're right.  He's damned if he does, or damned if he doesn't.  In the end, its the people who are going to live this out.  He's not gonna suffer one little iota.  And he's told the American people that. 




housesub4you -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/17/2009 5:07:22 AM)

quote:

Actually, under the plan currently put forth that so-called 'death panel' would actually be a panel of medical doctors and other personell who would make decisions that are currently up to 'middle-management' insurance reps.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: gift4mistress
Remember, under a universal care system they have to make decisions based on the greater good of society and not on the individual. But, if she was able to get the surgery there would be no guarantee that she would get it on time anyways.


Actually, under the plan currently put forth that so-called 'death panel' would actually be a panel of medical doctors and other personell who would make decisions that are currently up to 'middle-management' insurance reps.





Actually there are no death panel and the only thing that would have changed is the DR would discuss what the options are, and the patient (if able) and the family would be the ones who make the choice.  The thing in the bill that they turned into the "death panels"  was that the DR would be able to bill medicare for the counseling to the family

Actually, people should be having these conversations with their DR and lawyers now, but the fact is most people do not.  For those who believe that the GOP believes in less government in health care, how can you forget the Terry Shivio case in FL, where congress had a special sessions, Bush used Air Force 1 to fly back to sign the bill if they got it through.  All for 1 woman who was brain dead.  Taking away the rights of the husband and and letting our government make the choice concerning his wife for him.    GOP wants  less government Great slogan, to bad they do not do honor it




Sanity -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/17/2009 6:14:52 AM)


So you're all for nuking hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in order to win a war, so long as it's a DEMOCRAT who's doing it.

Nothing inconsistent there... [:D]

By the way, I love the way you judge all Conservatives by the way a few posts are worded on collarchat.com. I suppose we can infer by your reasoning that all Liberals are exactly like yourself, without exception?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales
Once again, I find myself of the same opinion I was in my last post. I am not at all sure that someone who can't tell the incredible differences between our situation at the end of WWII and our situation after 9/11 should be making decisions on what to have for lunch, much less what our national policies should be. Then again, it seems that the right wing has encapsulated its entire policy around "Do nothing, yell "no" to everything that comes along. Make the situation worse. Win next election."





tazzygirl -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/17/2009 6:35:55 AM)

ya know... here is the strange part. i wouldnt care if it was Dem, Repub, or space martian who proposed this bill. its just something that needs to be done.. and soon. we can bitch whine and complain, point fingers at each other, make up lies and refute them on both sides.... and the end outcome is still the same. people are still dying needlessly.

its just all senseless killings.

they are dying so others can live in mansions and drive fancy cars and have expensive dinners. and those who are dying get denial letters in the mail. no one even has the guts to look them in the eye and tell them no. its a form letter for death.

there is your death panel.




Sanity -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/17/2009 6:43:59 AM)


Death and suffering are a part of life, even Obama could never change that. The most any politician can do is to teach you to be dependent on government for your every want and need.

[sm=bowdown.gif] GOVERNMENT




tazzygirl -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/17/2009 6:47:27 AM)

we already are, even you.




Sanity -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/17/2009 7:34:06 AM)


Well, no, I work. Nanny government doesn't spoon feed me and wipe my chin. Politicians take my taxes and so I do what I can to minimize what the politicians manage to steal from me to buy your votes with, and business's campaign contributions, etc, but that isn't the same as depending on government for my every want and need.



quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

we already are, even you.





philosophy -> RE: RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION' (8/17/2009 9:18:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Death and suffering are a part of life, even Obama could never change that.


...true, even the Sainted Ronnie Reagan couldn't change that.

Well, sort of. Death and suffering are pretty much inevitable, however it is entirely possible to minimise their intrusion into our lives. The crux of the matter is how to do this.

quote:

 The most any politician can do is to teach you to be dependent on government for your every want and need.

[sm=bowdown.gif] GOVERNMENT


...well, that's one way of looking at it. If we posit that there are only two entities capable of minimising death and suffering, if we further posit that only one of those entities can work at a time......then government is a less appealing option than the individual.
However, if we posit that both entities can function simultaneously, then perhaps both government and the individual have a role to play.

The problem with the health care debate in the US is the underlying assumption that it's either the government or private citizens who ought to be responsible for their own health. The option of both appears to be lacking. Most universal health care systems happily coexist with private health care options for those who want them.

In short, what ought to be a pragmatic discussion is hopelessly bogged down in rhetoric regarding the nature and trustworthiness of government.




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