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Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 4:36:46 PM   
cpK69


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Status: offline 		I’ve been wondering, does ego cause deceit, or does deceit cause ego to lie?

Six of one, half dozen of the other?

Perhaps it can’t be answered?

Kim

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 5:04:31 PM   
angelikaJ


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Status: offline 		I think fear often causes deceit.

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 5:10:26 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

I think fear often causes deceit.


I agree.

Being an emotion, fear stems from ego; therefore, in the case of fear, ego causes deceit.

Would that be accurate?

Adding; hard to know when our feelings start to hurt us.

Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 8/16/2009 5:17:41 PM >

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 7:05:56 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		Why do you say that ego cause deceit?  IMO, deceit is caused by people of poor character trying to instantly fool others rather than trying to fix their issues.

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 7:24:29 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Why would ego cause deceit?

"I'm so great I don't need to lie" for example.

Deceit comes from insecurity with the truth--however the person acts.

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 7:29:22 PM   
shadowowl


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Status: offline 		aninmals have no real ego but they do have deciet from my understanding.   or maybe they do have ego I don't know lol.
but monkeys will steal and hide what they stole not from ego but because they dont' want to get caught.
do they not want to get caught cause of ego?  possible but i don't see the connection :P

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 7:52:41 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Why do you say that ego cause deceit?  IMO, deceit is caused by people of poor character trying to instantly fool others rather than trying to fix their issues.


I agree with what, MM, said.

I am wondering when it starts in an individual; from the beginning, or along the way?

Kim


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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 8:19:01 PM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		Life is an illusion, illusion is deceit, therefore life causes deceit.

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 8:21:04 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Life is an illusion, illusion is deceit, therefore life causes deceit.


I can agree it is all 'just someone's dream', but an illusion? I'm not understanding how that works. (that was toward life)

I have to think on the part about deceit. I believe it is similar to the effects of a piece of art, or 'magic'.

Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 8/16/2009 9:13:12 PM >

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 8:22:19 PM   
chiaThePet


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De chair causes deceit.

What?

chia* (the pet)


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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 8:24:47 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet



De chair causes deceit.

What?

chia* (the pet)



... or pushing.. *giggles*

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 8:30:15 PM   
lovingpet


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Status: offline 		Take this for whatever it is. Fear is NOT an emotion. It is a primal instinct. When a person realizes there is a "right" and "wrong" (the function of ego to make those distinctions for us), those things within the person that do not fall into the category of "right" result in stress. If this stress is of great magnitude, it activates the primal instinct of fear and an ego defense initiates. That defense usually takes the form of some wall, mask, or other protective construct to conceal the "flaw". Now ego must continue to protect those defense and that can result in deceit. I would say ego.

lovingpet

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 8:37:15 PM   
ShaharThorne


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Status: offline 		It is a nasty little circle: deceit chasing ego, ego chasing deceit. There is not begining and there is no ending.

Thank Madoff, Enron and AIG...*shuts mouth before getting too political*

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 8:41:03 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

I can agree it is all 'just someone's dream', but an illusion?
I believe Gautama said it, and for no reason I can pin down, tonight it rings true to me...All life is an illusion, nothing is real.


< Message edited by Arpig -- 8/16/2009 8:42:08 PM >

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/16/2009 10:42:18 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Why would ego cause deceit?

"I'm so great I don't need to lie" for example.

Deceit comes from insecurity with the truth--however the person acts.

Bingo.


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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/17/2009 12:06:21 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Fear is NOT an emotion. It is a primal instinct.


For the sake of clarity, when you say fear is a primal instinct, is it in reference to ‘fright response’?
 
I am now confused as to what constitutes emotion.
 
Interesting…
 
Kim


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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/17/2009 12:18:14 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		deceit.

A kid can con an extra piece of chocolate out of an adult-  but is not old enough to have an ego.

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/17/2009 12:22:53 PM   
lovingpet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Fear is NOT an emotion. It is a primal instinct.


For the sake of clarity, when you say fear is a primal instinct, is it in reference to ‘fright response’?
 
I am now confused as to what constitutes emotion.
 
Interesting…
 
Kim



What we tag as "fear' is actually the response of startle that initiates fight or flight. When startle becomes extended for whatever reason, it becomes labelled fear. It's something meant to keep us alive. With further development of brain function, however, it can sometimes serve to do the opposite. It may or may not be an emotion, but it is instinct driven, rather than cognitively driven. That difference is key I think.

lovingpet

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/17/2009 12:24:10 PM   
lovingpet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

deceit.

A kid can con an extra piece of chocolate out of an adult-  but is not old enough to have an ego.



Ego would be expressed by the fact that the kid knew he would HAVE to con that candy out of the adult. He knew it was not an appropriate time or thing for him to have, so he acted accordingly.

lovingpet

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RE: Which came first; Deceit or Ego - 8/17/2009 12:34:32 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

deceit.

A kid can con an extra piece of chocolate out of an adult-  but is not old enough to have an ego.



Ego would be expressed by the fact that the kid knew he would HAVE to con that candy out of the adult. He knew it was not an appropriate time or thing for him to have, so he acted accordingly.

lovingpet


Good point.  When my sister was a toddler- I told her candy gave her the tummy ache.  She said "NO candy is GOOD".   She was very convinced that since it tasted good that it was good.


< Message edited by pahunkboy -- 8/17/2009 12:36:41 PM >

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