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RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 1:22:06 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I think, and I may be wrong, but the bigger point Steel is trying to make is that the fearmongers make it A.) more about internet interactions and B.) more about BDSM interactions.

The scary unknown monster.

This stuff can and does, happen to more people that would never consider meeting someone from the net and don't do BDSM related activities. Quite often it just happens, and usually with someone they knew and thought they could trust.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 1:22:32 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		I think the main discussion is how it is presented.

I meet anyone just about anywhere. I am told this is because I am a Guy, However I often point out, Sure but the person I am meeting is usually a girl. By this logic the 200 + women I have met be it off the Net, a Phone Chat Line of just meeting someone at a bar or a party and going home with them, all of these women are just cannon fodder for the millions of people out there who are just looking to hurt you.

I tell people to meet new people but to do it in a logical manner, if you aren't sure about the person then meet somewhere Nuetral. If they seem off then excuse yourself from the relationship while someone like waitress is at the table that way they will remember you should you come up missing.

If you do not own a Cell phone have a friend go with you and if you aren't comfortable call your friend over and have them join you.

If you do not own a cell phone then make a phone call from where ever you go to someone with caller ID make a point to them to write down the info from where the call came from just in case.

cornflake girls makes some good points on what should be done, however pointing out the boogie men makes people aware of the boggie men even when they don't exist.

It is Smart to have people know where you are no matter what you are doing. andi knows where I am or where I am supposed to be every day no matter what and if she needs me she knows how to reach me I do not have a cell phone (too expensive right now)

The problem that I have are the people who tell you that it is just too dangerous to meet someone in a private place, which isn't true, it is just as safe as meeting them in a public place first and then going to a private place with them, even if it's a few meets later. The problem is that they make it seem like this things happens to all the women involved in BDSM all the time.

The Point I am making is if it happens so offten how come it never happened to the people telling the story? How come you rarely if ever hear of first hand experiences?

It's Fearmongering, make everyone else just as scared as you and suddenly it makes sense for you to act the way you do. If everyone agrees that meeting in public is scary then you don;t have to do it.

It's Using Fear amd trying to get other people to share your fear and hiding behind it to make it okay that you not get involved.

Drives me crazy.

Steel

_____________________________

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Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
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(in reply to cornflakegirl)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 1:29:24 PM   
cornflakegirl


Posts: 183
Joined: 7/1/2009
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I guess I'm not seeing that, Steel. I'm seeing recommendations to be cautious, just like what you listed. I'm not seeing any paranoia squad out trying to convince no one to meet ever.

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Away from the computer more often than not.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 1:44:20 PM   
MusicalBoredom


Posts: 620
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline 		Steel, I think you are right on the precaution side.  I don't think this a BDSM issue at all.  It's a first meet issue.  If I meet some stranger on the internet, it's not at my house.  I don't expect it to be at theirs either.  I will give out my cell phone to someone I plan on meeting.  I will also let someone else know what I'm up to.  I would encourage anyone, male or female to do the same.  Nothing terrible has ever happened to me when I was being sane and cautious.  I did have a few scary times when I was up to no good and trying to buy things from other people that were also up to no good but thankfully those days are behind me.  I also use a condom out of caution.  I truly believe that the people I go to bed with are disease free -- I just prefer to take my own precautions.

I am sure there are bad people into BDSM, who are not into BDSM, pretty people, not so pretty people, doctors, lawyers and homeless people.  There will always be those out there that wish to do others harm but thankfully they are in the minority.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 1:55:11 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I think the main discussion is how it is presented.

I meet anyone just about anywhere. I am told this is because I am a Guy, However I often point out, Sure but the person I am meeting is usually a girl. By this logic the 200 + women I have met be it off the Net, a Phone Chat Line of just meeting someone at a bar or a party and going home with them, all of these women are just cannon fodder for the millions of people out there who are just looking to hurt you.

I tell people to meet new people but to do it in a logical manner, if you aren't sure about the person then meet somewhere Nuetral. If they seem off then excuse yourself from the relationship while someone like waitress is at the table that way they will remember you should you come up missing.

If you do not own a Cell phone have a friend go with you and if you aren't comfortable call your friend over and have them join you.

If you do not own a cell phone then make a phone call from where ever you go to someone with caller ID make a point to them to write down the info from where the call came from just in case.

cornflake girls makes some good points on what should be done, however pointing out the boogie men makes people aware of the boggie men even when they don't exist.

It is Smart to have people know where you are no matter what you are doing. andi knows where I am or where I am supposed to be every day no matter what and if she needs me she knows how to reach me I do not have a cell phone (too expensive right now)

The problem that I have are the people who tell you that it is just too dangerous to meet someone in a private place, which isn't true, it is just as safe as meeting them in a public place first and then going to a private place with them, even if it's a few meets later. The problem is that they make it seem like this things happens to all the women involved in BDSM all the time.

The Point I am making is if it happens so offten how come it never happened to the people telling the story? How come you rarely if ever hear of first hand experiences?

It's Fearmongering, make everyone else just as scared as you and suddenly it makes sense for you to act the way you do. If everyone agrees that meeting in public is scary then you don;t have to do it.

It's Using Fear amd trying to get other people to share your fear and hiding behind it to make it okay that you not get involved.

Drives me crazy.

Steel

quote:

The Point I am making is if it happens so offten how come it never happened to the people telling the story? How come you rarely if ever hear of first hand experiences?


Well I would guess that the people who it has happened to, have no desire share what is, I am sure, a very painful and humiliating experience

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Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey Fierstein

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 1:59:51 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

The Point I am making is if it happens so offten how come it never happened to the people telling the story? How come you rarely if ever hear of first hand experiences?


A lot of women don't want to share the horrific experiences they faced on public BDSM boards. It's bad enough to have to live through it, to relive it in a public venue .. well, there isn't a lot of motivation to do so. I actually did post about my own experiences once and ended up deleting the post about 30 seconds after I hit send.

Surely you understand that when someone posts, they open themselves up to all kinds of shit, including ridicule and even those who will put the blame squarely on the rape survivor or who will crack jokes about rape. How often is the phrase touted, "Well, if you didn't want dissenting opinions you shouldn't have posted!" Then there are those who will accuse the OP of seeking attention or some kind of validation or they'll tell them to just get over it, or put their big girl panties on.. move along and all that sort of shit.

Rape is bad enough without being verbally beaten up about it if you decide to post.

It's just not worth it.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 2:00:10 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		Fearmongering goes on everywhere, it's not just on the net and in BDSM.

Who here knows someone who actually caught something from sitting on a toilet seat?  But yet, we (women....I can't speak for men) pull our tissue paper ass-gasket out of the holder on the wall and sit on that to stay "safe".....as the urine from the woman ahead of us who was afraid to sit at all and peed standing up and got it all over the seat soaks through the tissue paper.....

There has been so much fearmongering about skin cancer that people now douse themselves in SPF 60 and avoid the sun altogether....which has resulted, in part, in the Vitamin D deficiencies that people now have.  10 minutes a day isn't going to kill anyone (except those very rare persons who have a medical condition) and would do wonders for people's Vitamin D levels.  But no, the fearmongering keeps money rolling in.


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 2:03:43 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline 		I've learned through hard experience that it's a good idea to have a safecall set up, etc.  I was raped, but that was when I was still dating vanilla.  I've never had anything really horrible happen to me since I've been kinky.  The only thing that ever happened was this one Dom I met laid into me too, TOO hard with a riding crop and I was almost bleeding.  I was still very new and I had safeworded twice already and He ignored it both times, so I finally had to scream "Stop it right f*cking now!!" and He took off without another word.  Otherwise, no problems.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 2:07:59 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with your post, Bita/Celeste.  On the other hand, I've dated several women off here and Alt, but the only one (so far) I have said "I love you" to met someone off the internet, and she ended up jumping out the window of his apartment and running down the fire escape.  She met me in person three weeks later.

I learned the day we met in real life that she had just had that experience.  She told me when she and I were at her apartment.  It was one of the most flattering moments of my life -- here was a woman who had every "right" not to meet me at all, much less to invite me to her place, and yet she was willing to trust me because what she saw in me was more important than her memory of that very recent event.  We had a beautiful time together, though our friendship has lasted longer than our sexual partnership did.

I am most attracted to people who are positive and hopeful, and it's definitely possible to be positive and hopeful despite having lived through very difficult experiences.  You are a perfect example of that.


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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 2:15:33 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I've never been raped, no-one I know has been raped  -   but that doesn't mean they haven't. Rape tends to be something most people don't talk a lot about.

Telling someone you are meeting someone new in a public place is sensible. I was sensible.
Having a safety call during the first private meet is sensible. I wasn't sensible  -  and nothing horrible happened. Infact something marvelous started.

When i was dating vanilla 20-odd years ago, nothing horrible happened to me and it would have never occured to me that the new guy i was dating might try to rape me.

Just lucky i guess.\

Of course, a lot of fear mongering is spread by the media who are now in the business, not of reporting dispassionately the news, but of  making it. Think silicon breast implants and the unwarrented hulliballoo about them   -   media inspired and lawyer carried on.  Or if you want another example of media making "news"  -  think the rather disgraceful exibition the media made of Michael Jacksons death.  Neither warrented the carry-on the media made about them.

There is an element of risk in what we do, as there is an element of risk in vanillas dating. Neither risk is huge, but it definitely is there, and if a few simple precautions can keep someone safe - why not?

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 2:23:16 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

There is an element of risk in what we do, as there is an element of risk in vanillas dating. Neither risk is huge, but it definitely is there, and if a few simple precautions can keep someone safe - why not?


I agree 100%.  Bad things can happen in vanilla situations just as easily as kink ones, and if a little pre-planning can lower the odds, it's a good thing.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 2:41:43 PM   
Steelslilbit


Posts: 130
Joined: 8/10/2009
Status: offline 		There's a very big difference between what CAN happen and what DOES happen.  Any time you meet someone off the internet there is always a chance that you are meeting some psychotic twit who wants to rape you/tie you up/cut you into little pieces and eat your or whatever.  i don't believe that adding any kink factor to a possible meeting with someone means that the level of danger goes up along with it.  Having said that, i've also met more than my fair share of people from the internet....as a matter of fact i was married to one for three years.  It's about common sense and keeping your head about you.  ABSOLUTELY tell someone that you are going to meet a new person, and the same with taking your cell phone with you.  Hell, even carry a thing of mase or some form of protection...however if your gut instinct is telling you you need protection you have to think about why and whether or not this particular meeting is altogether a smart idea.  i've never had something horrible happen to me from meeting someone off the internet.  Like i said i married one, was collared to another for a while, and have several very close friends from other meetings.  Of course i've also had every hair on my body stand on end for a couple of them and wondered to myself a few times if meeting was a good idea.  But i'm still alive and no more afraid of anything happening to me than i was before i went, and continued to meet people offline afterwards.  Having a healthy mindset about meeting new people now adays is a good thing, but letting yourself become paraniod and obsessed that someone is DEFINITELY going to kill you.....not so much.  But then i don't get off on that kind of thing.....;p

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 2:56:36 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		a safecall is a great way to find the body.

I put no credence in safecalls, safewords, etc...none of them will do you any good in the end. If a person truly wants to harm you, they will..and I put very little thought into what other people tell me. If I did I would have never led the life I have and been with some wonderful men.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 3:10:02 PM   
pdv99


Posts: 140
Joined: 3/13/2007
From: UK
Status: offline 		Steel is right in as much as the fear of crime can have a worse impact on people's lives overall than crime alone, so it's important not to exagerate the FREQUENCY of bad events. That's not a BDSM issue. It relates to all sorts of stuff in life. If nice honest people don't walk around their own neighbourhood because of a fear of violent gangs of youths, we hand our streets over to those exact people to behave as they wish without fear of detection.

That isn't to diminish the severity of real incidents. They can devastate the life of the few individuals concerned. However I don't accept the assertion that MOST women have suffered some form of rape. Of those women I have known closely enough for such an issue to be discussed, I've met a couple who had been abused as children (both entirely 'nilla), but none, kinky or 'nilla,  who reported sexual assaults as adults.
It's wise to take precautions on dates, but not wise to allow fear to prevent you from meeting new people, most of whom will not be violent rapists if you have conducted any form of screening first.

Personally, I've done some extremely risky things on first dates, based just on a first impression or even just the sound of someones voice on the phone. And I'll confess to being a somewhat iffy judge of character. But none of it went so wrong I couldn't laugh about it afterwards, and most of it went wonderfully right.

(in reply to Steelslilbit)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 3:57:06 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

...And If they were first hand experiences what did you learn and do you think it was your own mistake something that you didn't do that you SHOULD have done or was it just some random Psycho that you picked the short staw on and it was your turn?...


this slave was a young teenager, at the time, and she learned not to go over to some older guy's house that she met at the arcade in the mall under the assumption that we were just going to drink beer...

after begging and pleading for him not to take this slave's virginity, he decided that it was good enough to use her hand to masterbate into the toilet with, as she was crying and begging for him to stop.
 
so yeah...it was a mistake on this slave's part to put herself into that situation and yeah...he was a bit of a psycho to not accept NO.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 4:08:45 PM   
xchellekittyx


Posts: 8
Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline 		fast reply...

one of my rapes...yes i've been raped more than one time - when i am on drugs, i seem to lack the ability to protect myself, one of the biggest reasons i am in recovery - but anyway, one of my rapes occurred when i had been not doing any drugs and drinking very little but i stayed at the bar till it closed, it was Dominatrix night and my friend was the Dominatrix...and there was one other bar regular left with me so i asked him to walk me out to my car...but he had seen me get flogged by my friend and had other ideas and raped and assaulted me for over an hour in the back parking lot of the bar...telling me i "couldn't say no"...because of what he had seen earlier i guess...then gave me his business card and sent me home...yes i went to the police, but it was a week later because i didn't tell anyone for a week and i was too scared to deal with the police by myself...and it turns out i was right...i gave them all his information, including the business card and they did nothing...

and you know what...i have seen him on collarme...not the boards but the personals side...soooo, i know for a fact that there is at least one rapist on collarme....

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 4:21:24 PM   
Leiren


Posts: 206
Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xchellekittyx

and you know what...i have seen him on collarme...not the boards but the personals side...soooo, i know for a fact that there is at least one rapist on collarme....


I only registered on collarme yesterday and I am not looking for a dominant since I'm already happily collared. Your post just struck a chord with me, though.

I've been on other alternative lifestyle sites in the past, and unfortunately the type of person you've described can be found a lot of places other than this site. Sometimes men will join sites like these and claim to be dominants, when in reality they're predators who believe that submissives are easy prey.

I hope you never have to live through that type of experience again.





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(in reply to xchellekittyx)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 4:36:38 PM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline 		Firsthand, I lost my virginity when I was raped at knifepoint at 14. (shrug) Believe it or don't, it doesn't matter to me.

Secondhand and close observation: at least half a dozen. Some were very ugly situations; if I describe them here, they'll sound so unreal or extreme, you'll probably charge me with fearmongering!

I have no idea how prevelent this sort of abuse is. I encountered it more than most people, I think, because I was with someone who chose to help people who found themselves in very serious situations.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 4:53:26 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		Well, since i've already shared my experience about this issue here i guess i might as well do  it again....  i have allowed this to happen to me in the past... Did i make some 'cardinal sins'? Yep...Did i learn from them? Yep!!
Here's the mistakes i personally made which set me up to place me in the position which allowed me to be raped:
  • Despite their original offer to meet me in public..when that didn't pan out (they weren't able to make it there) i agreed to met them at the house
  • i allowed myself to be vulnerable due to my past.
  • i believed that no one would ever rape me because of the way i looked.
  • i was foolish and sick enough to believe the sick ass crap that he was peddling about why i was put on this earth.
  • i believed i deserved this on some level
  • i did not have any kind of safe call in place
  • i did not let anyone know where i was going     
i could pretty much go on and on all day about this... Which is why i am a firm believer that i played a role in this situation...Was i a victim? Sure... But, do i have a  part to play in this situation? Did i put myself in a situation to be harmed here? You betcha! i think until i could come to terms with this...until i could come to grips with the part i played in all of this...until i could separate out what was my stuff versus what was his stuff...i could not heal from this crap and move on.
Kali        

edited to add:  While this was a really horrific situation all the way around..both with the jackass i met from here and with the police who busted the door down to break me free...there were some good things i did learn as a result of this:
  1. Cell phone's can save your life....i'm entirely convinced that the fact that i took my cell phone into the shower and called the police from there literally saved my life.
  2. Friends have enormous healing potential...my experience is that through the strength of my friends i was able to heal tremendously..        


< Message edited by Kalista07 -- 8/17/2009 5:07:14 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said the... - 8/17/2009 5:34:06 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		I don't think that the safewords and public places ensure safety by themselves, but because a sub will insist on them.  I've heard of numerous Internet Doms who refused to meet friends of mine because of them.  The "Doms" were evidently intimidated!

Useful screening mechanism.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 40
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