I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (Full Version)

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SteelofUtah -> I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 12:06:05 PM)

FEARMONGERING!!

Pisses me off to no end.

We have all read the threads about knowing who you are talking to and having safe calls ready because there are there dangers out there and on every corner is a Dom waiting to snatch a sub from the world and beat her and cut her up and rape her and then let her go or maybe not.

How many has this happened to personally?

Lets first make one GIANT fucking statement before we get started. Rape is a SERIOUS issue, if you believe you have been Raped then who is anyone else to argue? That being said there are MANY people who Cry Rape, when that isn't what happened and they were consenting and when asked to stop the person did and the person STILL felt like they were raped because they had to ask the person to stop. I personally had this particular situation happen to me and Yes it went to court and it was thrown out but that didn't change what it did to me in the comunity. That being said I am asking that if you post about being raped that you understand they way I will be seeing the situation and will most likely NOT respond because of that.

So that being said who here has Personally lost a job because of your kink involvement, when you weren't already hanging by a thread? How many here have actually had the police come to their home because their play was confused for physical abuse? How many here have ACTUALLY had a first meet go scary wrong and felt they personally were in physical danger because of the actions of the the people they met?

I ask this because I have been at this just about 12 years now and except for my one experience with someone who I believe was looking for drama and didn't know how to handle someone for whom NO really does mean NO. The Court case was so easy it almost didn't happen but the police report needed to be addressed and that was the ONLY reason it even went to court (There wasn't even a trial)

I notice a lot of the Fearmongering going on, people which for whom it is paramount that people know just how dangerous this can be, and state over and over all the horrible possibilities that this lifestyle can propogate.

I have met very few people whom the things they talk about actually happened to, it always happened to this one guy I know, or this submissive who showed up and was never seen again. I never really hear the horror stories from the people it actually happened to.

I do find it strange that just about every woman I have met on-line has been raped, and I wonder if there is come corolation between BDSM and a History of Sexual Abuse, but that is a very different thread. What I would like to know is with all the Horror Stories how many are first hand experiences.

And If they were first hand experiences what did you learn and do you think it was your own mistake something that you didn't do that you SHOULD have done or was it just some random Psycho that you picked the short staw on and it was your turn?

I am asking this in complete seriousness as I am starting to find the Fearmongering to be getting ridiculously out there lately.

Steel



LaTigresse -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 12:08:21 PM)

Been to the political and religious forums again haven't you?!?!?



SteelofUtah -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 12:19:13 PM)

No I learned that that is not a playground for me.

This is from random threads on General BDSM, Ask a Master, Ask a submisisve, Ask a Mistress and one on Health and Safety that pissed me off to no end, It was a LONG time ago but I finally got around to posting this topic today it is an OLD thread and I think I only read the first 5 posts before I left it for Bovine Excrement.

Steel



leadership527 -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 12:22:16 PM)

Last I checked, getting out of bed in the morning is horribly dangerous. I figure all else follows from that *laughs*.

I agree with you Steel. Not that I know anything about "the scene", but honestly if I actually believed the fearmongering I read here, I'd go running from all you sick perverts and it'd be the right move. When, exactly, did meeting someone for coffee become a life threatening situation?



LaTigresse -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 12:28:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

No I learned that that is not a playground for me.

This is from random threads on General BDSM, Ask a Master, Ask a submisisve, Ask a Mistress and one on Health and Safety that pissed me off to no end, It was a LONG time ago but I finally got around to posting this topic today it is an OLD thread and I think I only read the first 5 posts before I left it for Bovine Excrement.

Steel


Steel, don't you think that the bulk of it is because of the net, generated by the net, and mostly on the net?

I've never heard the college kids, standing in line with me in the grocery store, have this sort of conversation.



cornflakegirl -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 12:31:25 PM)

It's not a BDSM thing or even a dating thing, at least not for me. It's a minimizing risk in all contexts thing. I wear my seat belt, I use sunscreen and I make sure my friends know where I am going and when I am due back when I go out with someone I have never met before. I do the same when I go hiking alone.

As for personal stories... I met a guy who seemed a little off, but nothing I could put my finger on. I was reeling from a bad relationship, making lots of bad choices, and I invited him over. He pushed me to be sexual with him, I said no, he did stuff anyway, repeat. He fucked me. It didn't get violent but I never consented. I wouldn't call the cops on this guy but I would never, ever be alone with him again and never see him again if at all possible.

If I am the more experienced one, or the one with the power for whatever reason, I get clear verbal consent. I give clear verbal consent and I assert myself clearly if I am uncomfortable with the way something is going.

As for the reason most women you meet online have been raped, well, most women have been raped, and it's a lot easier to talk about it online than in person.



cornflakegirl -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 12:34:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Steel, don't you think that the bulk of it is because of the net, generated by the net, and mostly on the net?

I've never heard the college kids, standing in line with me in the grocery store, have this sort of conversation.



My friends and I had this conversation in college. We kept an eye on each other and we were careful and when we did that none of us got into trouble. It was when we threw caution to the wind that we got hurt.

One of the people we were out with one night got pissed off at the group and stormed off. She showed up the next day beaten and bloody with her wallet gone. It's wise to be cautious, to run with a group, to watch out for each other.



RedMagic1 -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 12:38:56 PM)

And yet, you said yourself, cornflakegirl, that you find dating to be nerve-wracking, and you wanted to work on yourself to have more fun.

I'm not currently looking, but I certainly have been at times.  And let me tell you, if a woman wasn't willing to take enough of a physical and emotional risk to meet me in a public place, quickly, I stopped talking to her.  There are a lot of kinky women in the world, and I only have time to invest in the ones who think I'm worth investing in, too.



cornflakegirl -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 12:40:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

And yet, you said yourself, cornflakegirl, that you find dating to be nerve-wracking, and you wanted to work on yourself to have more fun.

I'm not currently looking, but I certainly have been at times.  And let me tell you, if a woman wasn't willing to take enough of a physical and emotional risk to meet me in a public place, quickly, I stopped talking to her.  There are a lot of kinky women in the world, and I only have time to invest in the ones who think I'm worth investing in, too.



I specifically said I do meet people in public places. I also set up a call so my people know where I am.



RedMagic1 -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 12:49:16 PM)

I am not explaining my point clearly.

I've seen someone shot to death, right next to me.  It could have been me, but it wasn't.  It happened in a public place, in the middle of the day.  I've sorta posted about it a couple times, and there are a few friends who know, but most people don't.  I don't bring it up often.  Why?  Because life is too short to be controlled by the negative.  By contrast, it seems that most of your posts are intended as "safety warnings" about the possibility that Horrible Thing X might happen.

Well, yeah, it might.  But... if your goal on this site is to meet a healthy sane person (or people) who also happens to be kinky, then you might want to accentuate the positive, and not have every damn thing you talk about include some disaster story.  Otherwise, a man who would otherwise be perfect for you might say, "Nice lady, but damn, she has a hell of a lot of baggage."  Wouldn't that be a disaster in itself?



LadyPact -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 12:52:29 PM)

Nothing I could say here would count as first hand experience, but I have dealt with people who were literally assaulted and were in the lifestyle.

I've also had the cops called on Me for an impromptu flogging demo in AL.  What did I learn there?  Know the laws of whatever state you are playing in, even if you don't live there.  (No arrest, thankfully.)

I've also been involved with clip having issues with his military career over being kinky.  What did I learn there?  For us military types, it is very important to know how don't as don't tell applies to wiitwd. 



lovingpet -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 12:53:48 PM)

Nope. I have never had any of those crazy things happen and I would say I average meeting two or three people a month now for any manner of reasons, but all with ties to BDSM in one way or another. I met one guy that I was pretty sure lived in his mother's basement at the age of 45, but that's all. I have met pretty much, average, if not, upstanding people.

I was one of the big time safety gals for a long time. I won't say I go free for all, but I don't feel the need to be paranoid. I have a cell with me when I go places and I don't venture into private with people I don't trust. Pretty simple really.

lovingpet



cornflakegirl -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 12:57:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

I am not explaining my point clearly.

I've seen someone shot to death, right next to me.  It could have been me, but it wasn't.  It happened in a public place, in the middle of the day.  I've sorta posted about it a couple times, and there are a few friends who know, but most people don't.  I don't bring it up often.  Why?  Because life is too short to be controlled by the negative.  By contrast, it seems that most of your posts are intended as "safety warnings" about the possibility that Horrible Thing X might happen.

Well, yeah, it might.  But... if your goal on this site is to meet a healthy sane person (or people) who also happens to be kinky, then you might want to accentuate the positive, and not have every damn thing you talk about include some disaster story.  Otherwise, a man who would otherwise be perfect for you might say, "Nice lady, but damn, she has a hell of a lot of baggage."  Wouldn't that be a disaster in itself?



I see your point. However, I've also posted lots of fun things and lighthearted things. Any guy that I am going to really click with is going to understand that the issue of gendered violence is serious and deserves attention. If my posting about things that are currently weighing heavy on my mind turns him off, he's not Mr. Right. If he is the right guy, his response will be to tell me his opinion, discuss the issue with me, perhaps debate, even have a different opinion, and then we can go play Nintendo or whatever.



RedMagic1 -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 1:03:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cornflakegirl
Any guy that I am going to really click with is going to understand that the issue of gendered violence is serious and deserves attention.

Of course it's serious.  But the way to address that seriousness is to do something about it in a way that will matter.  Volunteer at a rape crisis center, donate money to a woman's rights organization, pursue a career that improves the condition of women.  You do not help any woman -- not even yourself -- by placing bogey men in between you and a social life.



cornflakegirl -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 1:09:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Of course it's serious.  But the way to address that seriousness is to do something about it in a way that will matter.  Volunteer at a rape crisis center, donate money to a woman's rights organization, pursue a career that improves the condition of women.  You do not help any woman -- not even yourself -- by placing bogey men in between you and a social life.


How is discussing the issue on a forum, or setting up a phone call, placing a bogey man?

If you go hiking alone, do you let someone know where you went and what time you are due back?

To me it's the same thing. I'm a smart girl. I have made decent choices the vast majority of the time in people I meet and the trails I've hiked. I know to carry water and a snack and a cell phone, and I know to meet a new fellow in public and to trust my gut of it feels wrong. But I might break an ankle, or meet a predator, and it would be nice if my people knew where to look for me when I didn't show up on time.

Now, if I allowed that tiny possibility that I could meet some supercreep to keep me home all the time, and never go out, or if the risk of skin cancer was so terrifying that I never went outdoors even with sunblock on, then that would be allowing fear to rule. I'm not talking about allowing fear to destroy any chance of happiness. I am talking about taking reasonable, simple, easy precautions.



lovingpet -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 1:09:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: cornflakegirl
Any guy that I am going to really click with is going to understand that the issue of gendered violence is serious and deserves attention.

Of course it's serious.  But the way to address that seriousness is to do something about it in a way that will matter.  Volunteer at a rape crisis center, donate money to a woman's rights organization, pursue a career that improves the condition of women.  You do not help any woman -- not even yourself -- by placing bogey men in between you and a social life.



I agree with this. It is how I have worked through some things in my past. My intimate partners are well aware of my past and the difficulties it may pose to our relationships, but it does not preclude me from making those connections in the first place. As a matter of fact, if I don't go and make myself a supportive network of people who care about me, I am setting myself up to be victimized again. My friends and family are VERY important for that very reason and the more all the better.

I can't live in the past and I can't live in fear. What I can do is learn the lessons and recognize warning signs early. I can learn to listen to that little voice and I can learn to act appropriately. I can learn my own patterns and behaviors that are both successful and detrimental. The only thing I can't do is allow all of that stuff to paralyze me the rest of my life.

lovingpet



ranja -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 1:11:34 PM)

This happened to me well before i knew about bdsm or my own sexual inclination.

I was young and in love with a guy who did not seem to like me very much  (most likely because i had slept with a friend of his)... months passed and one night very late he turned up at the out-house at the farm where my bedroom was... i let him in and he came on to me... he was a little bit drunk and i was in my nighty and said i did not really want to kiss and that and i wondered why on earth i had let him in... he did not take any notice of my protestations and i wondered why i did not feel totally exited at his late night pass at me; he was powerful... had i not dreamed about this for somany times? He pushed himself on me and took what he wanted while i protested, but there would have been noway i would have won the fight and if i would have screamed noone would have heard me, but i did not even try screaming... i would have been too embarrassed at the hassle if someone would have heard... he was rude and rough and did not please me at all... he just took and then he left.... he even took my bike to get home... i had to pick it up a few days later myself to get it back... i felt totally humiliated and not in a good way at all... he did not contact me...

The next weekend i was out in a bar, a friend asked me with a wink how my night had been as he had dropped the guy off at my door, wink wink... i said; well thanks for that then, the blundering dork raped me... within a few minutes the blundering dork appeared at my side and demanded to know why i was spreading the rumour that he had raped me... i asked him what else he thought it was that he had done that night... he had no answer... i never took it any further or spoke about it again but i was very pleased when he appologised to me several years later.

I have been in more weird situations with men sexually...

I do believe that most women get raped... i think most women get raped a few times... all female friends who i talk intimately with have been through difficult experiences... not all rapes are really bad, some rapes are just naff... sometimes it can be a learning curb, some rapes are more a dreadful misunderstanding than a crime... some men are so badly tuned into the woman they are having sex with that they do not even realise that they are actually raping her.

some sex is good some sex is bad.

Then again some rapes are absolutely criminal, the perpetrator a total ignorant bastard and the victim scarred for life... the worst rapists most definitely need locking up or be castrated.



TazDevil -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 1:14:57 PM)

has it happened? YES! it was less then 5 years ago a Dom "Master" was using the web to find, woman who go meet hem, he then kill them and stuff them in trash can's so he could see there decaying bodies and cum on them, (it was all over the net and in news papers) face it is a fucked up world and sub/slaves or in a vary varbule (getting no help with that one) place, one that not too hard to take advantage of



captainblack -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 1:17:30 PM)

I had it happen to me years ago.

I was in a relationship with a woman, even living together. When she decided to end
the relationship and move away instead of just up and moving she changed the locks on the house. She then left for a day, during which time I got myself back in the house and determined to stay there until she came back to find out what this crap
was about.

The next day the cops showed up telling me she had gone to them with reports of domestic violence. Lucky for me I had woke up the day before she changed the locks
to find her pounding on me and scratching my chest. I opened my shirt and said, yes officer there has been domestic violence and I am the victim. That little thing changed how they dealt with the situation. Instead of taking me away they asked if she could come in and move her stuff out of the house.

I am sure in my case it helped that I was a 5'8" and about 125 lbs and she was 5'7" and about 200 lbs. It was not hard to think she would be able to hold me down.
Had I been bigger than her I do not think her tales to them of our previous consensual play would have been so easy for them to dismiss.

It can happen that someone in this lifestyle will do something bad, but that is the
only time it has happened to me and I have been in the lifestyle since I was a teen.

CB



AnimusRex -> RE: I knew a guy whose cousin had a friend who said they knew someone who......... (8/17/2009 1:20:23 PM)

Steel:
I think its odd to use your experience at being falslely accused of rape, to bolster your argument about fearmongering: Being arrested, imprisoned, and bound over for trial falsely would be enough to make me run screaming from these sites like a cat with its tail on fire.
I suppose excessive fear is not a good thing, and common sense understanding and acceptance of risk is a good thing.
But I think we need to accept that men and women see these things differently. For men, our worst fear is getting THAT phone call a few weeks later:
1 " I am late, and we need to talk arrangements..."
2. I just tested positive for..."
3. "I thought we had something special!!!"

For women, the fear of rape and violence may be small....but still real. For them, their risk/ reward claculation comes down to - how good does a potential orgasm have to be, to warrant risking life and limb? I know that for most men, getting a chance to stick it in something warm is worth  risking hellfire, arrest, eternal damnation, and an army of zombies.
For women.....not so much.



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