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Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 8:48:08 AM   
rulemylife


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Status: offline 		Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise


WASHINGTON – Frustrated liberals have a question for President Barack Obama and Democratic lawmakers: Isn't it time the other guys gave a little ground on health care? What's the point of a bipartisan bill, they ask, if we're making all the concessions?

A case in point: Sen. Charles Grassley, a key Republican negotiator on health care, was on a winning streak as Congress recessed for August, having wrung important concessions from Democrats, including an agreement not to tax employer-provided health insurance and a limit to demands on drug companies.

How did Grassley reciprocate? With an attack that struck Democrats as stunning and baseless. Grassley told an Iowa crowd he would not support a plan that "determines when you're going to pull the plug on Grandma." The remark echoed conservative activists who wrongly claim a House health care bill would require Medicare recipients to discuss their end-of-life plans with doctors.

For liberals supporting far-reaching changes to the nation's health care system, it was another sign that months of negotiations have been a one-way street. It's time to move on without Republicans, they say.

On Tuesday, liberals were fuming over Obama's recent remarks suggesting he might also yield on the federally run insurance option he's been promoting. Many saw it as a huge concession that could leave them with nothing more than watered-down insurance cooperatives.

But the Senate's second-ranking Republican, Jon Kyl of Arizona, dismissed even such co-ops as a "Trojan horse" leading to government control of health care.

Many liberals are fed up.

"It is clear that Republicans have decided 'no health care' is a victory for them," Andy Stern, president of the Service Employees International Union, said in an interview. "There is a point at which bipartisanship reaches a limit, and I would say it's reaching that limit."

The growing liberal unhappiness sets a difficult stage for Obama this fall. Political pragmatists want him to keep seeking a middle ground that will attract at least a few Republican lawmakers as well as moderate Democrats who could prove crucial to passage in the House and Senate.
Even modest achievements, such as preventing insurers from refusing to cover pre-existing medical conditions, would allow Obama to claim a victory and perhaps try for more later, they say.

Liberal activists say there's no point in the Democrats winning the House, Senate and White House unless they use their clout to enact the major measures that Obama campaigned for — with or without some Republican support.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 8:57:55 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		What health care compromise ? This bill was written by democrats. The republicans were shut out of the process. If they really want to compromise they should scrap this bill and sit down with republicans and make it truly bi-partisan. It might even have a chance of passing..

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 9:00:44 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

What health care compromise ? This bill was written by democrats. The republicans were shut out of the process. If they really want to compromise they should scrap this bill and sit down with republicans and make it truly bi-partisan. It might even have a chance of passing..


What sorta tired shit is this?  They tried to sit down with the pubsters and they just said 'no'.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 9:01:37 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

What health care compromise ? This bill was written by democrats. The republicans were shut out of the process. If they really want to compromise they should scrap this bill and sit down with republicans and make it truly bi-partisan. It might even have a chance of passing..


I know it would be expecting a lot from you to read the link, but you could have at least read through the full excerpt.

It clearly mentioned two of the many compromises.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 9:37:32 AM   
olena


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Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline 		Most analysts actually think the Democrats made a huge political mistake by trying to work with the Republicans and making compromises early which there have been plenty as just off the top of my head tax credits for small businesses was from a Republican.

The thought being the threat of ramming through a bill without compromises would bring a more good faith effort at a plan that was better and has both sides input. But most Republicans in Congress just decided something this huge was not worth anything more then trying to score political points with their base.

The Republicans have had the same strategy since losing Congress and that any bill of significance the Democrats design the Republicans design their own bill and hold their breath and go where is the bipartisan. The Democrats have reached out but the Republicans just do not accept they are the minority and to them working with the Democrats means their ideas with small changes by the democrats and that is just not going to fly. It is like they prefer to pout like little children.

The Republicans had years to have healthcare reform done the way they wanted and chose to not do anything. That in itself should be a signal to what intention they have of changing anything.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 9:49:55 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

What health care compromise ? This bill was written by democrats. The republicans were shut out of the process. If they really want to compromise they should scrap this bill and sit down with republicans and make it truly bi-partisan. It might even have a chance of passing..

That must be why Republican Senator Grassley was bragging about his negotiating successes in regards the bill in question before admitting he won't vote for it unless every other republican senator votes for it.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/08/chuck_grassleys_dispiriting_bi.html?hpid=news-col-blog

You might want to at least do some basic fact checking before repeating the latest talking points.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 12:51:39 PM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		The present bill will accomplish nothing and will not solve the health care/delivery woes of the US.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 4:55:49 PM   
DomImus


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Status: offline 		The democrats have a majority in the House and a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate if they stick together and vote against their constituencies, in some cases. If they're so tired of having to make all the compromises as that article states let them pass the damned thing already. There is nothing standing in the way of the democrats passing this bill in it's current form if they stick together. The republicans do not have the votes to stop them. If the democrats truly feel this is the best direction for the country then they should pass it. If they are back working in the private sector in Jan 2011 then so be it. If they would quit worrying about being re-elected and act they could pass this if they stick together. They have the numbers. The others cannot stop them.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 5:08:39 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		It is a waste of political capital to do so, lets not forget midterms....thats whats on the plate here.

folks are testing the waters with townhalls and finding themselves harangued by rightie tighties, and not able to take the temp of their democratic constituencies.

The cry and hue of the rightie tighties was:  JESUS!!!! Obama has us in debt more than ever before, the only way out of this is to lower taxes, and frankly; the electorate is not that sophisticated.......They were crying this the day that Obama took office, a tabula rasa of what had transpired for lo, many, many 'conservative' administrations beforehand.

They will take a ponderous, thought provoking image, do nothing stance, to see if there is a wholesale slaughter of pubsters in the mid-terms and see just where everyone is really laying with the debt.

You can fuckin' quote me........no health reform until after mid-terms, if even then.     

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 5:17:05 PM   
rightwinghippie


Posts: 276
Joined: 8/12/2009
Status: offline 		But if the People desperatly want the Dem plan, why don't they pass it and reap the rewards come mid terms?

Again we see that Dems can sometimes win via a protest vote, but are simply incapable of running the damn show.

If Obama can't even manage Pelosi how can he deal with Kim, Achmedinijad, and Chavez?

At least after the mid terms the grownups will controll Congress.

I mean sure, y'all can list a hundred reasons why the Dems can't pass a bill with veto and filibuster proof controll of both houses and the Presidency. But they are just excuses.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 5:19:45 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Do we know the people desperately want the dem plan?  If so, how so?  Alotta dems don't want the dem plan, as it currently stands........

Or did I miss some shit going on out there? 

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 5:29:09 PM   
rightwinghippie


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Status: offline 		It's the job of the Senators and Representatives to decide how to vote on these things Mnot. Righty tighty fluff aside. At least Republicans can run a Government. Put the Dems in complete charge, and they still run around in circles blaming Republicans and voters, yammering about midterms. There is allways a midterm coming up.

Are you missing something? Its hard to tell. You seem to be in disagreement with the lefties. It is still quite a vauge thing that there doesn't seem to be an actuall "Dem Plan". To me it would seem easier to sell an actuall plan, but obviously the Dem Leadership disagrees. I agree with you, probably no health bill while the Dems run the show, though I reach that conclusion through a different route.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 5:33:15 PM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		BULLSHIT...................
I am of the camp that I didn't send that fucker down to decide anything on my behalf, he votes MY fucking will.  He represents MY interests, not HIS.  Already way to much of that shit going on right now, that's why we lay in the middle of this over our head cocksucker.

I don't buy your initial assumptions hippie, therefore I do not buy your deal.

Ron



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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 5:50:36 PM   
rightwinghippie


Posts: 276
Joined: 8/12/2009
Status: offline 		OK, now I understand your confusion.

Your representatives are not your personal representative. You are no more important to them, than any other constiutuant of thiers. I am not sure what your districts are, so I will use some made up numbers. Your congress man has 20,000+ other constituants. Your sentor has a million+. Why would your opinion rule over all the others? Think about how unreasonable that is.

So if you start with that profound a misconception on how the world works, no wonder you are upset and spouting profanity like that. 3 sentances- 2 fuckers, 2 shits, and a cocksucker....

And I am not trying to sell you anything. Why would I waste my time doing that? I am trying to convince the non contributing readers of this thread, that my viewpoint has validity more often than not. Cause I am a geek like that.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 6:04:43 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		rwh,

I don't think you get the gizmo at all; slick.  And I am ok with that.  I don't think that your viewpoint of the slaughter yet to come was any more valid than last go 'round. I don't know if you read, or if you get your philosophy from Limbaugh.  Taxation without representation; ring any bells?  My viewpoint is not extraordinary or singular; regarding elected officials being beholden to the will of the people, in fact the congress (and here I speak of both houses) was set up with that idea in mind, originally.

Tricky Dickie, Palintization, Hip Shooter McCain, Face Shooter Cheney and that sort of thing is going to keep you on the sidelines for a couple of cycles.

I convince people that my viewpoint is valid by being proven right more often than not.

Regarding the use of: fuck, shit, finger, piss, nibble, gobble or chew, I have a vocabulary that is considerably larger than average, and certainly larger than your, and could rhetorically fetch your head off with one twist, and it would take you a of couple weeks, and several translators to discover.

But your pedantic flummoxery (it doesn't even rate buncombe) amuses me. 'Cause I'm a geek like that.

Ron

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/19/2009 6:15:11 PM >

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 6:15:58 PM   
DomImus


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Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
You can fuckin' quote me........no health reform until after mid-terms, if even then.


I agree with you and that's my point exactly. If this bill was good for the American people it would already have been passed. If they had any integrity at all they'd pass it without concern for the mid-term fallout if the bill was good for the country. The problem is that they may not have the numbers after the mid-terms. If they're going to do some sort of health care reform they may have to strike while the iron is hot but I don't feel many of them have the backbone to cast a vote that might cost them their seat no matter how strongly they feel about the bill.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 6:18:56 PM   
rightwinghippie


Posts: 276
Joined: 8/12/2009
Status: offline 		But you seem to think the will of the people and your personal will are the same thing.

"I am of the camp that I didn't send that fucker down to decide anything on my behalf, he votes MY fucking will. He represents MY interests, not HIS."

But thats ok, you can think that if you like.

I have made my point, you can have the last word with your extensive vocabulary.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 6:28:27 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		this republic is a democracy.  they are elected representatives.  they see how the majority (indicated by a royal use of 'MY') desires that they vote, then do so.  that's what the whole recess and go back to your district, newsletters, election, debates, staff, toll free numbers, addresses, emails and so on is supposed to be about.

Explication without commodiousness.

Selah.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 6:47:21 PM   
rightwinghippie


Posts: 276
Joined: 8/12/2009
Status: offline 		Now I did say you could have the last word, but I have to ask...

I am very familiar with the concept of "Royal We".

But have never heard of nor could I find any citation for the "Royal My". And think you just made it up. I don't suppose there is any chance of you providing any sort of evidence that such a phrase?

Nor do I understand what your diversion has to do with why the Dems are incapable of passing a health bill, despite having filibuster proof controll.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/19/2009 6:48:04 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I HAVE missed your posts around here, you annoying old fart.




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