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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/20/2009 10:23:25 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie

Now I did say you could have the last word, but I have to ask...

I am very familiar with the concept of "Royal We".

But have never heard of nor could I find any citation for the "Royal My". And think you just made it up. I don't suppose there is any chance of you providing any sort of evidence that such a phrase?

Nor do I understand what your diversion has to do with why the Dems are incapable of passing a health bill, despite having filibuster proof controll.


I do not know that there is a place that makes it ok to use a royal my, nor do I need to have such authority, it should have been clear from my post that I am using a royal my, and if you need citing for the concept I can only direct you to Mercs sig.
I don't see what I am saying as a diversion, but as you couch the argument incapable in spite of control is simply like seeing atoms as the old pudding model, it is more complex, and your question is simply not valid.
Now, it seems to me that there is about a trillion dollars laying around in bailout money for the banks that is only about 10% spent, and when we see what good its done we could without fear of failure take that money for healtcare.

(*NB: the following is a synecdoche, an imaginary conversation with the congress, and not a personal statement to you (I see you have problems with the thousand points of light, and the whole vision thing)) 
The thing is, you're talking about somebodies money who I know motherfucker; MINE!!!! Before you spend a trillion dollars, I want to see a plan, I want to know how the assumptions were assembled, all sorts of shit......None of you motherfuckers asked before you spent that trillion on the banks, and robbed my wallet, and ignored my emails and phonecalls, because the world would come to an end as we know it, if  you didn't do it.  Well, it is plain that you are wrong, and wrong quite often about a range of issues.
-----
Now I fail to see how I am being unreasonable.

  

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/20/2009 10:47:15 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

The present bill will accomplish nothing and will not solve the health care/delivery woes of the US.


Ditto.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/20/2009 11:39:26 AM   
rightwinghippie


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But there doesn't seem to be anything "royal" about the use of your made up term "royal MY". Nor anything in Mercs sig. It's a made up meaningless term, because you didn't have a real response to what I pointed out. But I do realise that there are several posters, who you can glamour with words as if you were a vampire. Mostly folks who are not familliar with Lenny and Abbie, and people who get off cause your so RADICAL!!! And to them (if tis Royal You that makes them intellectual peasants, no ?) you have won, hands down. I suppose you win, your Sillyness. Most Radical! King Ron the Unreasonable of Rhetorica, lord of his personal Senator? Or whats is your prefered title.

I do accept your insult about my vision, I will try to improve your kingyness. But really I want to debate ideas. Isn't this the Political Debate room? Can't we make it about ideas and concepts? There is a room for humor, and a room for off topic, and a room for random stupidity....



In terms of silly words and unicorn jousting, you win hands down. But the Dems ran on health care. Obama ran on Health care. They got elected. Dems have a filibuster proof majority. There is always a midterm coming up. Democrats always have nonsense excuses as to why they can't do the things they promise. I understand you have to make up silly words and try to change the subject, it's really the only way you can argue your position here. What are they going to do over recess? There isn't an actuall plan to examine yet.

RML, DK, haven't you caught on yet that the Democrats don't give a shit about the "left".

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/20/2009 11:54:29 AM   
mnottertail


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You purport to have a brain, but I see no evidence of cogency. 

Obama ran on healthcare? Show me where. I believe that he opined that we needed health care reform, and should have coverage for everyone.  Now who is using royal license? 


Uh, it is also quite puerile to point out that shakespeare never said (or any other talking head never said, as if that is a necessary and sufficient condition for common usage), all that glitters is not gold, what he said was all that glisters is not gold.  However; there are a great many words and phrases used today that never had shakespeare's blessings.

again look up the word synecdoche.  if that isn't the use of a royal my I fail to understand englische as she is goodley spokene. (chaucer.....his spelling)  and see if you can tie this in somehow from Mercs sig:
 "The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." ~ St. Augustine  

So, when the President says 'My fellow Americans'.... it is unreasonable rhetorica.

Now actually, you have not stated what should or could be done, giving reasoned arguments for any of it, but rather cavil about the dems did this and the lefties did that.....

Yeah, I am massively outclassed by your laserlike rhetoric.

Nevertheless, I suppose to dig in your heels, to refuse discourse, to whine that the dems fucked you, to howl at the moon about birth certificates and conspiracies and whatnot and that you will not lend a hand, rather; you will stand in the doorway and block up the hall, is a view shared by many.

Well, that's the way it is going to be then.   

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/20/2009 12:01:42 PM >


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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/20/2009 1:54:47 PM   
Brain


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Tavis Smiley . Archives . Wednesday, August 19, 2009 PBS
August 19,2009

Former Vermont governor and DNC chair Howard Dean weighs in on the healthcare reform debate and speculates on the impact of a bill not passing at all. Tavis also pays tribute to news legend and 60 Minutes creator Don Hewitt, including clips from his two appearances on the show.

Howard Dean served six terms as Vermont's governor, before running for the '04 Democratic presidential nomination. In '05, he was tapped to chair the DNC and, later, founded Democracy for America. He began his political career in the Vermont legislature and served as lieutenant governor. Before entering politics, he received his M.D. from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine and practiced internal medicine. In his new book, Howard Dean's Prescription for Real Healthcare Reform, he addresses how to overcome today's crisis.

WATCH

Former DNC chair responds to the possiblity of taking a public health option off the table in a reform bill. (1:41)

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/archive/200908/20090819.html


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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/20/2009 5:33:15 PM   
rightwinghippie


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Mnot, Yammer yammer yammer. Yaawn. Can't make a point with out making stuff up eh? kind of sad.

Never said the dems fucked me, never said a word about birth certificates, Never said the dems did this or that.

But I do understand why you want to pretend I did.


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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/21/2009 1:48:30 AM   
Brain


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Health Care Reforms: So Democrats are You Ready to GO Alone?

In order to get their health care reforms passed it seems that Democrats may be considering making use of a little known political tactic called reconciliation,

http://luvuobama.blogspot.com/2009/08/health-care-reform-so-democrats-are-you_20.html


It's about time. I've had enough Republican bullshit. Now it's time to nail it to a cross!

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/21/2009 2:50:08 AM   
Brain


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Public health plan idea followed unlikely path


By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, Associated Press Writer Ricardo Alonso-zaldivar, Associated Press Writer – 21 mins ago

WASHINGTON – It started out with a couple of liberal policy wonks. One on each coast.
Along the way, Elizabeth Edwards — sensitized by her own experiences as a cancer patient — helped propel it into presidential politics during her husband's campaign.

The idea of a government medical plan to compete with private insurance might have been just a footnote in an academic paper. Instead it has followed an unlikely path to center stage in the national health care debate. Many Democrats insist any legislation must include a public option, while nearly all Republicans are against it. President Barack
Obama seems uncomfortably stuck in the middle.

A look at the roots of the idea shows that the policy experts who proposed early versions believed the government plan would become one of the largest insurers in the country.

But Obama and other candidates saw it as a compromise between rival Democratic factions. One side wants Medicare-for-all, while the other prefers to subsidize coverage through private insurance plans — as Massachusetts has done. The debate within the party still rages, with Obama in the crossfire.


Former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards was the first Democratic presidential candidate to propose a public option as part of his health care plan, unveiled in 2007. Behind the scenes, his wife, Elizabeth, was a strong advocate of his decision.

In an interview, Elizabeth Edwards said that as the daughter of a Navy captain, she grew up with government health care and found it dependable. Later in life, her sojourn in the medical world as a breast cancer patient opened her eyes to the travails of people who had no insurance, or whose coverage turned out to be unreliable.

"I met people who were constantly coming up against one problem or another," Edwards said. "Even people like me, who have health care, know someone who has been through some misery because they couldn't afford the health care they needed."

Before the 2008 presidential campaign, chances were slim that lawmakers one day would consider government coverage for middle-class workers and their families. Liberals had talked for years about expanding Medicare to cover not just seniors, but all Americans. That's all it seemed to be — talk.

Then in 2001, political scientist Jacob Hacker proposed a plan he called "Medicare Plus." Employers could choose either to offer private insurance or pay a payroll tax to finance coverage for their employees through a health plan modeled on Medicare. Hacker, now at Yale University, retooled his proposal early in 2007 as the presidential campaign geared up. It caught on with core Democratic constituencies.

"The unions fell in love with Jacob's idea," said health economist Len Nichols of the New America Foundation.

Hacker said he wanted to bridge the gap between Democrats who supported a single payer plan like Medicare-for-all and those who wanted to preserve the employer coverage that has served most Americans for a half century.

"I tried to provide a case for seeing common ground between those two positions," Hacker said.

"There's certainly a strong political argument that single payer is not feasible. Threatening (employer) coverage is a political nonstarter, and moving all health care spending onto the public budget is virtually impossible in the current fiscal climate."

Nonetheless, he said estimates showed his public plan would end up covering about half of workers and their families — gaining a powerful position in the market.

On the other side of the country, a Berkeley health policy professor had come up with the idea of a head-to-head competition between a government plan and private plans. Helen Halpin proposed such a scheme in 2002 for California, a state with a history of failed attempts to remake its health care system. The following year, she retooled the plan as a national proposal.

Called the CHOICE Option, Halpin's plan would let people decide whether they wanted government coverage or a private plan.
"May the best model win," Halpin said. "Depending on the preferences of the population, the system could evolve to single payer, but it would be a totally voluntary transition."

Her bet:
The government plan wins.Edwards' health care adviser, Peter Harbage, said he was familiar with both Halpin's idea and Hacker's proposal, and they were discussed in the campaign's deliberations.

"What Helen had here was the idea of choice, and choice as an option," said Harbage, now at the Center for American Progress. "The catch phrases people are using today were part of her paper."

Edwards decided on his health care plan after the campaign set up a private teleconference debate that featured two independent policy experts. One argued for a government-run system, while the other defended a market-based approach like Massachusetts has.

"We were both walking around with phones," said Elizabeth Edwards. "I was listening in." After the debate, her husband decided to go for the market-based approach — with a public option added.

Later on, Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton adopted the public plan. The idea remins popular with the public:
a Kaiser Family Foundation poll this week found 59 percent of Americans support it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090821/ap_on_re_us/us_health_overhaul_public_plan


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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/21/2009 7:03:06 AM   
servantforuse


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Would that be the same John Edwards soon to be indicted for useing campaign funds to pay off his mistress , ? 

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/21/2009 7:18:57 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Would that be the same John Edwards soon to be indicted for useing campaign funds to pay off his mistress , ? 


Jesus christ - what possible relevance does that have to the article? Is it even remotely possible you can let go of this obsession with personal attacks and discuss an issue on the basis of its own merits?

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/21/2009 7:23:38 AM   
servantforuse


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Maybe if he had an affair and lied while his wife has cancer, he might just be lying about this.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/21/2009 7:30:05 AM   
Sanity


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Really, Panda. How are your attacks any better?

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2765034

Fact is they're not, you really aren't one to be chastising.



quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Would that be the same John Edwards soon to be indicted for useing campaign funds to pay off his mistress , ? 


Jesus christ - what possible relevance does that have to the article? Is it even remotely possible you can let go of this obsession with personal attacks and discuss an issue on the basis of its own merits?


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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/21/2009 7:43:19 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Really, Panda. How are your attacks any better?

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2765034

Fact is they're not, you really aren't one to be chastising.


First off, you call that an attack? That's an entirely valid observation. The OP asked a question how some of us feel about all the religious wackos in this country, and I gave an answer. Which I can easily and gladly support.

Second, my point here is that as despicable excuse for  a man as Edwards is (and make no mistake, he is a despicable excuse for a man), using his poor character as a basis to attack his policy proposals on health care is foolish.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/21/2009 10:14:36 AM   
ModeratorEleven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Really, Panda. How are your attacks any better?

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2765034

Fact is they're not, you really aren't one to be chastising.

Nor are you, so please give it a rest.

XI

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/21/2009 11:24:32 AM   
Brain


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New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option

More than three out of every four Americans feel it is important to have a "choice" between a government-run health care insurance option and private coverage, according to a public opinion poll released on Thursday.

Read Full Story at huffingtonpost.com

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/20/new-poll-77-percent-suppo_n_264375.html

Obama needs to give the people the public option they want and he will be re-elected in a landslide!!!

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/21/2009 11:35:53 AM   
servantforuse


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If that were the case, the dems on break wouldn't be cancelling town hall meetings. It is probably 70 % against the public option..

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/21/2009 11:42:16 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If that were the case, the dems on break wouldn't be cancelling town hall meetings. It is probably 70 % against the public option..


I don't know.

On one hand we have someone who provided a poll and a documented source to back his contention.

On the other hand we have you saying that it's probably not true, with absolutely nothing to back your contention.

Who am I to believe?

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/21/2009 12:09:25 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Obama needs to give the people the public option they want and he will be re-elected in a landslide!!!


Here Here! CALL THE VOTE! Couldn't agree more!

Initiate an executive order and call Congress back in session tomorrow! Enough with the debate and the polling.

If tomorrow Congress convened the pending Bill was passed and signed by the President, all would be well! Everyone would be insured - Free. The cost taken on by those heartless excessively rich families earning $325,000 or more. The general public will be enrolled and participating in preventative health programs, eating better, working out, and generally happy and healthy.

When that result is realized as projected, Americans will be partying in the streets as a statue rivaling the Lincoln Memorial was commissioned and built in Obama's honor for delivering the country from the evils of the current health care system. The proponents of the Bill in Congress such as Barney Frank and those in the general public know that the Bill will initiate an era of a healthy caring USA while at the same time leading to a boom economy.

Obama would be elected to a 2nd term and perhaps a Constitutional Convention will be called where the two term limit will be revoked by public acclimation. Then he and the Democrats would be in power for generations to come, especially when they would only need to point back at the silly obstructionist Republican and their ilk proved to be wrong in every point raised. Doing what it's proponents claim it will do and by next November all Senate seats up for reelection will be Democratic and, if they are smart, the remaining Republicans will switch parties and every Senator and House Representative will be a declared Democrat.

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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/21/2009 1:34:34 PM   
Vendaval


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I think you nailed it here in the first sentence, Ron old chap. So what are the terms of this wager?


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
It is a waste of political capital to do so, lets not forget midterms....thats whats on the plate here.

folks are testing the waters with townhalls and finding themselves harangued by rightie tighties, and not able to take the temp of their democratic constituencies.

They will take a ponderous, thought provoking image, do nothing stance, to see if there is a wholesale slaughter of pubsters in the mid-terms and see just where everyone is really laying with the debt.

You can fuckin' quote me........no health reform until after mid-terms, if even then.     



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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
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RE: Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - 8/21/2009 6:09:24 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie
But I do understand why you want to pretend I did.


What is this guys name? started with a 'c', I believe... used to hang on Firm like an ass sucking puppet. Not that Firm payed any attention to it.
So, I been busted for a fuck of a long time, how's about you?

So, what I'm gonna do, is pretend that you said in an earlier post, that I HAVE THE LAST WORD..........so, shut your fuckin' breadhole.


LOL.

_____________________________

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