RE: When a master makes a promise

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phoenix1 -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 11:51:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lapis quote: ORIGINAL: DestinyCommander But keep in mind, it must really have been a promise. Simply to have said you'll do something is not a promise. then what is it? a comment

slavejali -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 11:51:52 AM)
I think its one of the important qualities of a Dominant to be "true to their word", perhaps its of more importance when the relationship is new as it would be part of establishing trust and the submissive/slave being able to learn that their Dominant will carry out what they say they are going to. Not being true to their word, or breaking promises, can leave a submissive/slave feeling like they cant depend on what their Dominant says. This would kinda be a sucky place to be in and would reflect on the capacity of the slave/submissive to truely feel comfortable submitting to them. Over time, possibly this requirement will become less once the submissive is certain the Dominant is in control and have hard facts through the experience of the relationship that if the Dominant breaks a promise or doesnt do what He says He is going to do that it was just a choice He has made and not a flaw in character or a reflection on His ability to Dominate.

swtnsparkling -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 11:53:57 AM)
A Promise is like having a baby- easy to make, harder to deliver

BitaTruble -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 12:02:45 PM)
I must say that I'm truly stunned by the number of people who don't believe their word needs to be good if it's given to a slave or submissive. Saying you will do something, but not making it a 'promise' is simply a loop hole in a semantical game. An excuse to talk the talk but not walk the walk and quite frankly, I think it's bullshit. Why say you're going to fix the truck then not do it? Why not just say, "I may try to work on the truck tomorrow." What's the big deal? The decisions belong to Himself and if I have to sit here and second guess the meaning of his words to me, if I can't trust those words to be true and accurate, then the decisions become mine to make, the interpretation becomes my will rather than his. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard someone say to me.. "I'm going to kill you!" I don't believe it because I've heard it so many times and I'm not dead yet, so I never take it seriously. If you want to be taken at your word, your word damn well better be good or, to me, you're nothing but a big joke. This thread has opened my eyes in quite a few ways.. been educational to say the least. Celeste

angelic -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 12:06:42 PM)
bitatruble... it is a great thread... and very eye-opening... now i KNOW who to steer very clear of [;)]

slavejali -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 12:13:08 PM)
quote: The decisions belong to Himself and if I have to sit here and second guess the meaning of his words to me, if I can't trust those words to be true and accurate, then the decisions become mine to make, the interpretation becomes my will rather than his. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard someone say to me.. "I'm going to kill you!" I don't believe it because I've heard it so many times and I'm not dead yet, so I never take it seriously. If you want to be taken at your word, your word damn well better be good or, to me, you're nothing but a big joke. I agree, that was pretty much my point, breaking their word or a promise, just eats way at the foundation of the relationship and of the D/s dynamic. It becomes like "oh yeah, ive heard that before". Submissives/slaves arent robots and they arent supposed to be doormats, their submissive nature (although innate) however is almost provoked, or "brought out" by their Dominant/Master, through their words and actions and how they are dealing with the submissive/slave. A lot of how a submissive feels, or the depth she drops into her submissiveness a lot of the time is a reflection on the Dominant himself and his ability to Dominate.

Elegant -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 12:17:24 PM)
Im amazed at the people who consider promises only to be recognizable and intended if the statement contains the words 'I promise'. Sheesh...

RavenMuse -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 12:20:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble I must say that I'm truly stunned by the number of people who don't believe their word needs to be good if it's given to a slave or submissive. Saying you will do something, but not making it a 'promise' is simply a loop hole in a semantical game. An excuse to talk the talk but not walk the walk and quite frankly, I think it's bullshit. You and me both dear. Personaly it is part of a much bigger picture. Trust, self-discipline and respect something I expect of friends as well as of partners. IMO it is also part of something many here use quite happily, before you master someone else you should first master yourself. If you know you don't have the self-discipline to carry through on a promise then why make the promise in the first place? Why be dishonest about it..... to get a quiet life? To stop her nagging about it? Those are excusses I've heard from Vanillas but why would a Dom use them, why not say "Hell no the truck can wait to be fixed because I have other plans tomorrow!" More on topic.... if I don't carry through on my promises then why should a sub of mine believe me when I state that something is a boundery or a task and that there will be consequences if the boundery is crossed or the task not compleated? If I she knows I carry through on my word then she doesn't even need to test those limits as she already knows I mean what I say.

slavejali -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 12:22:26 PM)
quote: if I don't carry through on my promises then why should a sub of mine believe me when I state that something is a boundery or a task and that there will be consequences if the boundery is crossed or the task not compleated? If I she knows I carry through on my word then she doesn't even need to test those limits as she already knows I mean what I say. Exactly Sir

phoenix1 -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 12:26:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelic If they are truly 'promises' and they are constantly broken... as Oothers have stated... it begins to deteriorate the relationship. True promises should not be made or broken lightly and most certainly not on a regular basis. so true, angelic... the natural consequences are always the most motivating to all... if a Master cares if his slave trusts him and sees him as a man who has honor, integrity and can be trusted... he will want to monitor and check how well he is doing with following through on what he says he will do... be it comment or promise...

DestinyCommander -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 12:35:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elegant Im amazed at the people who consider promises only to be recognizable and intended if the statement contains the words 'I promise'. And I'm amazed at the number of people who take everything that someone says to be contractually binding, even if it's said in casual conversation. quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble I must say that I'm truly stunned by the number of people who don't believe their word needs to be good if it's given to a slave or submissive. Here I agree. The status of the person you make a promise to has nothing to do with the validity of said promise. If you don't intend to do something, you shouldn't make such promises in the first place. quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble Saying you will do something, but not making it a 'promise' is simply a loop hole in a semantical game. An excuse to talk the talk but not walk the walk and quite frankly, I think it's bullshit. And here I disagree. Not every word spoken MUST be a promise. Saying you'll do something is NOT the same as PROMISING to do it. Anyone who thinks the two are equal must take intense care with every word they ever mutter. It must be exhausting! quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse If you know you don't have the self-discipline to carry through on a promise then why make the promise in the first place? Why be dishonest about it..... to get a quiet life? To stop her nagging about it? Those are excusses I've heard from Vanillas but why would a Dom use them, why not say "Hell no the truck can wait to be fixed because I have other plans tomorrow!" I say I'm going to do something because I want to get it done. But sometimes it doesn't happen, and having said it doesn't make it a promise. Why should I exercise extreme control over every word I speak just in the event I change my mind? And why should I let someone else call what I say a promise, just so they can hold it over me when I do change my mind? So if everything a Master says to his slave is a promise, how can he say things that he's allowed to change his mind about? Should such statements be explicitly qualified with "I don't promise"?

phoenix1 -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 12:44:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble I must say that I'm truly stunned by the number of people who don't believe their word needs to be good if it's given to a slave or submissive. Saying you will do something, but not making it a 'promise' is simply a loop hole in a semantical game. An excuse to talk the talk but not walk the walk and quite frankly, I think it's bullshit. Why say you're going to fix the truck then not do it? Why not just say, "I may try to work on the truck tomorrow." What's the big deal? If you want to be taken at your word, your word damn well better be good or, to me, you're nothing but a big joke. This thread has opened my eyes in quite a few ways.. been educational to say the least. Celeste This one used to think in exactly the same way as you do, Bita... until she realized that she herself made comments and/or promises to others and did not always follow through... have you never told anyone you would help them with an upcoming project or volunteer for an organization, then get so busy it slips your mind? Have you never said to anyone that you will tidy up the house, then get rushed or just not feel like doing it later... so you blew it off? How many times do we say, "Today, I'm going to do this, this and this." Then we get side-tracked, or distracted by something we may become focused on later, possibly post-poning doing one or more of those things to the next day. This slave always keeps in mind that everyone will fall short, at different times...

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 12:44:53 PM)
Very well said, Commander. I couldn't have said it better.

BitaTruble -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 12:50:07 PM)
quote: And here I disagree. Not every word spoken MUST be a promise. Saying you'll do something is NOT the same as PROMISING to do it. What's the difference if it's not one of semantics? quote: Anyone who thinks the two are equal must take intense care with every word they ever mutter. It must be exhausting! It's a piece of cake if you say what you mean and mean what you say. I don't find it difficult at all. Celeste

IronBear -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 12:50:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling A Promise is like having a baby- easy to make, harder to deliver So very true. I like that comment. quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble I must say that I'm truly stunned by the number of people who don't believe their word needs to be good if it's given to a slave or submissive. Saying you will do something, but not making it a 'promise' is simply a loop hole in a semantical game. An excuse to talk the talk but not walk the walk and quite frankly, I think it's bullshit. Why say you're going to fix the truck then not do it? Why not just say, "I may try to work on the truck tomorrow." What's the big deal? Celeste I tend to agreewith you Celeste. However don't forget that us blokes don't always have the sharpest of memories (especially us Old Farts) and so something which was to be done may not happen due to forgetfullness. quote: ORIGINAL: slavejali I agree, that was pretty much my point, breaking their word or a promise, just eats way at the foundation of the relationship and of the D/s dynamic. It becomes like "oh yeah, ive heard that before". Submissives/slaves arent robots and they arent supposed to be doormats, their submissive nature (although innate) however is almost provoked, or "brought out" by their Dominant/Master, through their words and actions and how they are dealing with the submissive/slave. A lot of how a submissive feels, or the depth she drops into her submissiveness a lot of the time is a reflection on the Dominant himself and his ability to Dominate. Excelent lass your Master should be proud to have you in his collar. quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse Personaly it is part of a much bigger picture. Trust, self-discipline and respect something I expect of friends as well as of partners. IMO it is also part of something many here use quite happily, before you master someone else you should first master yourself. If you know you don't have the self-discipline to carry through on a promise then why make the promise in the first place? Why be dishonest about it..... to get a quiet life? To stop her nagging about it? Those are excusses I've heard from Vanillas but why would a Dom use them, why not say "Hell no the truck can wait to be fixed because I have other plans tomorrow!" More on topic.... if I don't carry through on my promises then why should a sub of mine believe me when I state that something is a boundery or a task and that there will be consequences if the boundery is crossed or the task not compleated? If I she knows I carry through on my word then she doesn't even need to test those limits as she already knows I mean what I say. I would expect nothing less than that form you me old China. One of the old school. Salute' quote: ORIGINAL: phoenix1 so true, angelic... the natural consequences are always the most motivating to all... if a Master cares if his slave trusts him and sees him as a man who has honor, integrity and can be trust... he will want to monitor and check how well he is doing with following through on what he says he will do... be it comment or promise... This could be the moto for a text book on How To Be A Dominant. Brava This far this thread has been an eye opener. I always enjoy hearing subs and slaves voicing their view regarding Dominants.....

RavenMuse -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 12:57:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DestinyCommander I say I'm going to do something because I want to get it done. But sometimes it doesn't happen, and having said it doesn't make it a promise. Why should I exercise extreme control over every word I speak just in the event I change my mind? And why should I let someone else call what I say a promise, just so they can hold it over me when I do change my mind? So if everything a Master says to his slave is a promise, how can he say things that he's allowed to change his mind about? Should such statements be explicitly qualified with "I don't promise"? Look at how you say something. Do you say "I'll get around to fixing the truck", or "I'll fix the truck tomorrow"... one is a statement of general intent, the other a promise of action the following day. Not a difficult thing to understand, nor IMO to stick to. As for promises that you may want to change your mind about.... don't make promises unless you are sure you can keep them. I can only see one situation where this could be a problem.... where the master has promised never to discuss a certain topic again (Something I NEVER promise). If you change your mind then you don't just act on it and break a prior promise, you raise the issue again, discuss it and take into account whatever caused the change of heart on the issue. In that case the new situation over-writes the old one. No promise has been broken, the sub always knows before hand as to what your position is, she can still trust in your word.

yourMissTress -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 12:58:46 PM)
If I tell my sub that I'm going to spend the day training them in a certain area and I spend the day sleeping, what does that tell my sub? What about the next day when I say that if he is late I will punish him? How likely is he to believe that I will punish him? If I tell my unmentionable that I'm going to help her clean her room and I don't what does that say to her? If I tell her that she must have her room clean or she will be grounded, how does she know that I will really ground her? You do a great disservice to yourself by being careless with your word. Although people may have counted on you to do what you say in the past, as they get to know you and your tendency to speak without conviction, ultimately the person you injure is yourself.

angelic -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 1:02:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: angelic If they are truly 'promises' and they are constantly broken... as Oothers have stated... it begins to deteriorate the relationship. True promises should not be made or broken lightly and most certainly not on a regular basis. In addition, even if the words 'i promise' are NOT put in front of a sentence and it is just 'Your' (generic Your) word and Your word changes (on a regular basis) just because "You beat on Your chest and proclaim I am Master... You are slave... therefore, I can do whatever I choose too" is imo bullhockey. [:D] i understand you are likely referring to abuse of power here but the truth is, he IS Master and CAN do what he wants. There are consequences, however. If a Master prefers a slave who serves happily, and eagerly, he would be wise to foster that in her and in doing so, he would instill trust in her. It is logical to me that he would best benefit from happy and trusting service, so would invest accordingly to receive such. exactly owned... you have One you have given your life over to and you trust Him implicitly... imo everything you say and/or do is a direct reflection on Him and how much He shines through your eyes.. Also imo... He earned that from you... i doubt you gave it freely the very moment He im'd you. i also doubt very much that His first im was 'kneel bitch' [;)] you do a great service to your Master... BECAUSE of how He has treated you... He earned your trust by being Who He is.

RavenMuse -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 1:03:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear I would expect nothing less than that form you me old China. One of the old school. Salute' I would expect no less of anyone I respect..... and from one of the people here that falls in that catagory, thanks for the compliment.[:)]

IronBear -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 1:09:42 PM)
I have a tendency to prefix most things I'm looking at doing with the "I hope to do ....... tomorrow or in a day or so" OR "As soon as i have spare cash, tgis is what I want to do" OR even "All things being equal, and by the grace of the Gods of traffic lights and other abominations, I'm going to do....... in the morning/afternoon/night." In other words all such statements are conditional and often dependent on other things.. They are statements of intent and are open to negotiatioon and change, but not a fixed promise.

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