RE: When a master makes a promise

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ownedgirlie -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 5:58:36 PM)
Well, i did state earlier...and i do believe...a Master has the right to revoke a promise, but i said it with the caviat (similarly to what LA said), that there are consequences depending on how it is handled...and how often it happens. That's why i answered ya :)

truesub4u -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 6:00:20 PM)
If a Dom or Master or Owner... doesn't need to justify broken promises.... to said property... then said property doesn't need to jusify walking out the door to said Owner.... Dom .. or Master. quote: ORIGINAL: Elegant I knew that would be your thought...grin..i just wonder the thoughts of those who are of the opinion that a Master does not need to justify breaking a promise to a slave.

OscarHargraves -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 6:44:50 PM)
I'm not a Master, I'm only a Dom and have no aspirations to become a true Master, however: I was always taught that man was only as good as his word. If he gives his word or makes a promise then he is morally bound to follow through with that if humanly possible. This has nothing to do with being Vanilla or into BDSM. This has to do with being someone that can be trusted for what they say. I make very few promises. Many times I'll say, "I'll see what I can do." or "Let me see if I can make that happen." but when I DO say I promise then I will do anything in my power to keep that promise.

Borch -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 8:35:46 PM)
A Master/submissive relationship is based on trust, as everyone knows. Breaking a promise of any size weakens that trust. Once any little doubt comes up between Master and sub, the trust built will start to go away. Good luck Borch

DestinyCommander -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 8:51:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse Frankly I don't think you can make any such assumption about the OP... you don't even know if those examples where entirely hypothetical. She posed a question, she didn't say "This happened to me, give your opinion on it" She posed a question, "what if this happened", and gave examples. By asking the question, she's asking for opinions on it. And it doesn't matter if the questions were hypothetical or not; I tend to believe the examples are real. But she effectively did say "This could have happened to me, give your opinion on it". How else would you define a hypothetical question? As happens with all questions of this nature, significant important information was left out. So to answer the question thoroughly, we each make certain assumptions and answer within those parameters. If we don't make any assumptions about the missing information, then the opinions are useless to the OP. The nature of her examples led me to believe that she thought something was a promise when it possibly wasn't. This isn't unreasonable to believe, as people frequently say things that others take as promise, but were never intended to be such. And a response by the OP to one of my posts affirmed (in my opinion) that maybe I was on the right track. There are, as the cliche goes, three sides to every story: his side, her side, and the truth. So I basically built a logic table with my hypothesis and opinions for each case: 1) He made a promise, she heard a promise: therefore a promise was made, and he should keep it unless there are extenuating circumstances. If he does not, trust is eroded. 2) He didn't make a promise, but she heard a promise anyway: it is unclear whether a promise was made, and a D/s relationship of five years ought to work out the gap in communication. 3) She didn't hear a promise: N/A, because the question would then not have been asked.

Petruchio -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 9:08:16 PM)
I have to agree with trusub and angelic: A promise is a promise. Even when you adopt a pet, there's an implied promise to treat and care for that pet. If you abuse the pet, it gets taken away from you. Beyond that, a sub or a slavette gives herself in exchange for OUR promises, and if we can't keep promises, we don't deserve to keep a woman. If anything, a dom and/or a master must attend to a higher level of honor. I keep thinking of an old saying: To thine own self be true. If you can't meet that simple rule, you dishonor yourself and others.

SimplyV -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/24/2006 11:05:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty My own personal opinion, rather extreme, I imagine, is that a slave is property, and can therefore have no expectation of a right to "kept promises". It would be as breaking a promise to your dog or cat. The one mitigatin factor might be if the slave's ownership were negotiated in such a way as to explicitly define a right to "kept promises." I find it odd that people compare a human to a dog and yet say they don't need to keep "promises" to either one. Have you ever raised a dog? I don't know about you.. but if I don't keep my word to my dog, she doesn't trust me anymore and has little regard for my authority. Now.. you might wonder what this "word" is.. Well it ranges.. from potty training her, so that every time she has to go she goes to the door to be let out. Now.. if I don't keep up my end of the bargain or keep my "word" to let her out, then she's gunna go pee in the house. And if I punish her for it, she's gunna resent me and not trust me. Then she's gunna sneak off and pee where I can't see it. Or if I don't keep my "word" to feed her daily, she's gunna eventually get in the trash or hunt for other food. Or if I'm not consistant in my "word".. punish her for something one day, then the next I don't. Or I allow her on the couch, then suddenly beat her for it. Even animals need consistancy and respect it. Why would anyone think that a human.. no matter how demeaned.. wouldn't need those same things? Sure my dog might not understand english, but humans do.. so with a human there is that added level of promises/trust. If you don't keep your word, soon people will lose trust in you.. and walk. Its all a matter of trust and honesty. If your words don't match your actions, no one is going to be listening.

theRose4U -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/25/2006 9:39:34 AM)
Maybe I'm just one of those wierd Dommes that says what I mean and mean what I say. I firmly believe in consistancy in training and being honest is part of that. Following through on committments whether you really want to or not is part of that. quote: It would be as breaking a promise to your dog I don't know what kind of pets you have but mine actually get pissed off when I break promises to them. If I say I'll buy their favorite cookies or take them to the dog park they will come running out the doggie door looking for their cookies or running for the car. If I break a promise/committment the smallest one will lift his leg on the sofa or the kitchen cabinet. Maybe that's it...piss on his sofa THAT will get his attention!!

truesub4u -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/25/2006 9:44:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: theRose4U Maybe that's it...piss on his sofa THAT will get his attention!! Best Idea I've seen yet on this subject.... lmao Great idea theRose4U... one to keep in mind for future thoughts... LOL

ownedgirlie -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/25/2006 9:50:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: theRose4U If I break a promise/committment the smallest one will lift his leg on the sofa or the kitchen cabinet. Maybe that's it...piss on his sofa THAT will get his attention!! LMAO - hysterical [:D] (except i'd be the one to have to clean it!!)

valeca -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/25/2006 9:56:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyV but if I don't keep my word to my dog, she doesn't trust me anymore and has little regard for my authority. <snip> If you don't keep your word, soon people will lose trust in you.. and walk. Its all a matter of trust and honesty. If your words don't match your actions, no one is going to be listening. So true! I applaud you for your entire post! claps loudly, whistles Logic. Ain't it great? ;)

MrThorns -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/25/2006 10:41:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lapis Master is in charge. Master gives the final word on decisions. i understand and agreed to this 5 years ago. my question to those here. Is is acceptable for a Master to go back on a promise? Is Master above keeping promises? little promises like a promise to fix the truck. or a big promise like to sepnd more time on us. Even though it seems as though your questions are designed to solicit a specific response that supports your particular point of view on this topic...I'll bite. People have the ability to change their minds...regardless of their position on the D/s totem pole. Those of us who have been through a divorce had said something along the lines of, "Til death do us part". Wasn't that a promise? Life happens and we adjust to it. If I make a promise, I do my best to follow through. I may change my mind or the situation may change and I have new possibilities to look at. If I never changed my mind, I would still be dating the girl I was seeing in 8th Grade. Is a Master above keeping a promise? No. Is a slave so rigid in her beliefs and behaviors that she is unable to adjust to life as it happens? ~Thorns

fyreredsub -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/25/2006 12:40:05 PM)
Master is in charge yes... but promises to fix the truck, why not go to a mechanic....that is an external type of thing.... more time together, that is up to a master...yes if he says he is going to then he should but what is the time factor involved....??? promises to be faithful sexually, then breaks it....that a biggie,lol that breaks trust.. that then starts to eridicate the bond of M/s

fyreredsub -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/25/2006 12:42:04 PM)
my thinking exactly it takes 2 to make things work quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u If a Dom or Master or Owner... doesn't need to justify broken promises.... to said property... then said property doesn't need to jusify walking out the door to said Owner.... Dom .. or Master. quote: ORIGINAL: Elegant I knew that would be your thought...grin..i just wonder the thoughts of those who are of the opinion that a Master does not need to justify breaking a promise to a slave.

IronBear -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/25/2006 1:18:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear When it comes to discussing Masters or slaves, I can only speak for myself and through the eyes of a Gorean Master. For me, a Master and in particular, a Gorean Master, is that he is a Man, not just a member of the male gender, but a MAN. Some of the tenets which I personally consider to be the qualities of a Man are: [1] A Man is a male whose bond is his word. (No written guarantees when a handshake will do). [2] He will not make promises without deep thought of all the consequences. [3] Promises may have a time line attached. Such time lines may be that he will complete keeping a promise by a specific time/date, or it may be that the promise will be kept until a time/date or a specific condition is kept. [4] He will keep his word unless by doing so he or others may be placed in physical or financial harm. [5] He will keep his word unless circumstances out side of his control prevent him from doing so. [6] If for any reason it becomes impracticable for him to maintain a promise, he will let the person know and may even re-evaluate the best way to deal with the circumstances regarding the original promise. (It may be reasonable to make modifications to the original promise). [7] He may make up his mind to do something, and even let others know of his decision. He is not bound to such decisions unless he has given his word and thus can without loss of honour. [8] Generally, a Master does make certain promises to a slave which is implied (at least in my case) when he locks a collar about her throat. Such promises deal with his responsibilities in looking after her and protecting her from harm. I can probably find others but this should give you some idea where I am at. This list excepting the last one was taught to me on my Father’s knee and by my Grandfather too. “You gotta play the game. It’s all in the game and how you play it!” I probably said most of it there.. However I'll add that when you break a promise, and especially when you do it deliberately, you are destroying something of yourself that you can never recover.... Do it often enough and you become a vile thing. As my blood brother would say, you become "He who speaks with forked tongue.." At that stage of your life, you, are less than the most bratty sub and you have lost all rights to claim the title of Dominant let alone Master..,Me? I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire at that stage. I piss myself off regularly, because I have to give up watchig some program onTV because I've indicated I'll give the girls a hand or do something. Yeah it's a bummer to miss something you've waited all week to watch, but you know what? I CAN LOOK AT MYSELF IN THE MIRROR AND LIKE WHAT I SEE... CAN YOU???? “You gotta play the game. It’s all in the game and how you play it!”

fyreredsub -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/25/2006 3:55:21 PM)
Master IB, i gotta say i smile and shake my head at the person becoming a vile thing.... that forked tongue will kill a relationship evertime. makes this girl RUN FAST and NEVER look back--- trying a second time is to no avail....b/c once the person has the reputation for being of that character that can't ever recover what was lost. i just got out of something w/ similiar behavior on a masters part.....i lost resepct for him, i didnt trust him and i sure as hell didnt want him in control of me when he couldnt control himself. can we say one cant master another under conditions such as these,. oh yeah....i became unslavelike FAST[;)] quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear When it comes to discussing Masters or slaves, I can only speak for myself and through the eyes of a Gorean Master. For me, a Master and in particular, a Gorean Master, is that he is a Man, not just a member of the male gender, but a MAN. Some of the tenets which I personally consider to be the qualities of a Man are: [1] A Man is a male whose bond is his word. (No written guarantees when a handshake will do). [2] He will not make promises without deep thought of all the consequences. [3] Promises may have a time line attached. Such time lines may be that he will complete keeping a promise by a specific time/date, or it may be that the promise will be kept until a time/date or a specific condition is kept. [4] He will keep his word unless by doing so he or others may be placed in physical or financial harm. [5] He will keep his word unless circumstances out side of his control prevent him from doing so. [6] If for any reason it becomes impracticable for him to maintain a promise, he will let the person know and may even re-evaluate the best way to deal with the circumstances regarding the original promise. (It may be reasonable to make modifications to the original promise). [7] He may make up his mind to do something, and even let others know of his decision. He is not bound to such decisions unless he has given his word and thus can without loss of honour. [8] Generally, a Master does make certain promises to a slave which is implied (at least in my case) when he locks a collar about her throat. Such promises deal with his responsibilities in looking after her and protecting her from harm. I can probably find others but this should give you some idea where I am at. This list excepting the last one was taught to me on my Father’s knee and by my Grandfather too. “You gotta play the game. It’s all in the game and how you play it!” I probably said most of it there.. However I'll add that when you break a promise, and especially when you do it deliberately, you are destroying something of yourself that you can never recover.... Do it often enough and you become a vile thing. As my blood brother would say, you become "He who speaks with forked tongue.." At that stage of your life, you, are less than the most bratty sub and you have lost all rights to claim the title of Dominant let alone Master..,Me? I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire at that stage. I piss myself off regularly, because I have to give up watchig some program onTV because I've indicated I'll give the girls a hand or do something. Yeah it's a bummer to miss something you've waited all week to watch, but you know what? I CAN LOOK AT MYSELF IN THE MIRROR AND LIKE WHAT I SEE... CAN YOU???? “You gotta play the game. It’s all in the game and how you play it!”

truesub4u -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/25/2006 5:54:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrThorns If I make a promise, I do my best to follow through. I may change my mind or the situation may change and I have new possibilities to look at. Is a slave so rigid in her beliefs and behaviors that she is unable to adjust to life as it happens? ~Thorns MrThorns... I'm gonna borrow your response here for a minute.... on second thought... never mind. Now that's changing my mind. MrThorn..... I promise to use your response to the best of my ability.... in hopes to not offend anyone. I've made a promise... now I will full fill this promise. I noticed.. on other responses.. not yours exactly MrThorn... that some have asked is we (meaning submissive/slaves) could tell the difference between a statement.. and a promise...I do believe we not only can.. but have. We made promises to you.. the Dom.. that you too wish to be kept. When said promises are not kept... we get "punished".... when Doms break .... no.. exucse me.... do not keep promises... there's no "punishment" from sub/slaves .... only to said sub/slaves... a broken promise.. is punishment.. when one so decides to "Change their mind" just because they so choose too. Thank you MrThorn, for use of your response here.. I do hope I kept my promise to you.. and not offended anyone here. Edited to add: And we submissives/slaves... do understand when things come up.. things happen.. that cause certain promises to be broken... we are NOT that rigid! We know life happens.. and we deal with it.. when it's explained....because it's not been made obvious....not "Just because I changed my mind"

KittenWithaTwist -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/25/2006 6:11:43 PM)
quote: As for this particular situation, only you can decide what is "right." If you feel his broken promises are too much for you, leave. If you don't want to leave, then be a good slave and shut up about them... Bitching to him will not get you what you want. He is what he is...submit or walk away. I disagree. The best way to make a lasting relationship work is to talk about our opinions, expectations, and feelings with one another. Perhaps the person in question did not realize he'd made a promise and broken it? Sometimes these things happen. But one can hardly expect a relationship to last longer than a Mento if they just walk out when a stupid thing happens.

phoenix1 -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/25/2006 6:13:59 PM)
forgot, got distracted, too busy, higher priority, depressed, changed his mind, testing the sub/slave, setting a boundary, teaching a lesson, realized it didn't need done, didn't have the money needed, too tired, too stressed, became apathetic, switched.... there are so many causes that would make a person not do something they said they were going to do... how judgemental should we be on them? That would depend on too many variables to answer.... but knowing the list above is reason enough for this one not to be judgemental at all. This is an excellent thread by the way.

DestinyCommander -> RE: When a master makes a promise (2/25/2006 11:17:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist Perhaps the person in question did not realize he'd made a promise and broken it? Sometimes these things happen. But one can hardly expect a relationship to last longer than a Mento if they just walk out when a stupid thing happens. Bingo. Thus the need for communication.

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