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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 10:34:57 AM   
mnottertail


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Well, then address the 5 years ago...........why are you pretending that you are someone else who actually is debating something with even a grain of truth? I have yet to see you post anything factual. Yet you yammer and yammer and yammer, like you are dropping pearls of great wisdom.

Cite some of these out and out fabrications one time.

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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 10:42:25 AM   
rightwinghippie


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Now, I had suspected you were just trolling. Thanks for confirming it. The details you seek have been previously posted in this thread. Not by me. It seems like you are not actually participating in the thread, but simply want to attack me. Why is that Mnot?

Is your life so lame you need to troll me?

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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 10:45:47 AM   
mnottertail


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You're the one who trolls and is not reading, nothing of the sort happened 5 years ago.

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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 10:50:29 AM   
rightwinghippie


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yet news articles cited previously in this thread establish that it did. Personal appeal to get the stalled bill going, ect.
IF you were participating in this thread, you would have already read it, and at least one of ya lefties would have challenged the sourcing. But your not. Becuse you are an intellectuall lightweight. and a troll.

go hump someone elses leg, please.


Or better yet, go back to the OP, read the thread and provided sources, and make a comment on it.


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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 10:52:27 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
nothing of the sort happened 5 years ago.



Check this out, Ron, dated well this mess cropped up.
http://caveatbettor.blogspot.com/2008/05/senate-succession-irony.html

Not the most reliable of sources, but it might serve our purpose here.

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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 11:03:23 AM   
mnottertail


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yeah, Rich.....I read the NYTimes article, then and now, and it seems apparent to me, that in both cases he is trying to insure the seat stays in party hands. Which I think it should. How is it anything other than political skulduggery if at the very least the elected party is changed?

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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 11:19:56 AM   
maybemaybenot


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Ron:

Trust me, the seat will stay in Democratic hands. That is why he penned the first successor change, he as well as anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows Massachusetts will never elect anything but a Democratic Senator.
His fear now is that there will be an empty seat for a few critical months while the Healthcare reform is happening. Do I know that personally, no, but trust me, Senator Kennedy penned the old change, knowing a Democrat would be elected, and a Republican would be appointed, should Kerry have won the election.  He was ensuring the state maintained 2 Democrats in the Senate. 



                                                          mbmbn

The last Republican Senator from Massachusetts was Ed Brookes, elected in 1967, then defeated by Paul Tsongas < D>.

< Message edited by maybemaybenot -- 8/23/2009 11:20:48 AM >


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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 11:21:57 AM   
mnottertail


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maybe,

I agree with your statement in toto. One has to ask, that being the case, what is wrong with it?

Ron

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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 11:26:44 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

He was ensuring the state maintained 2 Democrats in the Senate. 


Democrats outnumber Republicans in Massachusetts 3 to 1. I don't think the outcome is in much doubt.

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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 11:35:32 AM   
Sanity


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You really haven't read the thread. Why should anybody bother to repeat thermself just for you? Especially when you can't bother yourself to read what was written the first time around.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

maybe,

I agree with your statement in toto. One has to ask, that being the case, what is wrong with it?

Ron



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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 11:37:50 AM   
maybemaybenot


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I hate answering a question with a question:

If you agree that a Democrat will be elected in a special election, what's the need for re instating Gubenatorial appointment, albeit short term ?

I actually have no problem with the original Kennedy change and support a special election if a Senate seat is vacated prematurley. I do have a problem with it being fine tuned and gerri rigged whenever there is a change in Governorship. There is not a blessed thing wrong with things as they are currently. It's an impartial law that allows the people to elect a successor, as it should be, IMO. And I say this as a Libertarian who knows, her " guy " has no chance of ever representing Massachusetts.

                                mbmbn


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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 11:38:58 AM   
rightwinghippie


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maybenot, actually he would be insuring that Mass had only one Senator for a time, then the Dems probably getting it back.

Mnot, I am glad you agree with me that it is a purely Political Party based move. And that SOT was incorrect in pretending, "this is not a partisan matter at all."

I don't exactly see it. Why is the Govenor not a representative of the People's will? He seems to have some democratic credentials in the process.

If Mass is such a Dem state why did they elect a Republican Govenor? Why not just get rid of elections and put the money into Health Care if its such a solid Dem state.



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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 11:40:43 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Why not just get rid of elections and put the money into Health Care if its such a solid Dem state.


And you wonder why people think talking to you is pointless.

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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 11:47:53 AM   
rightwinghippie


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NO, don't wonder about that at all.

I post my comments on political ideas, and try to back them up and defend them. Apperantly I hit nerves in people because they make weak snipey comments, and/or try to make it about me. But I just remember that I am debating in front of an audience, and they are who matters, not you.

< Message edited by rightwinghippie -- 8/23/2009 4:42:43 PM >

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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 11:53:04 AM   
rightwinghippie


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So to recap, Senator Kenedy is trying to use Taxpayer money to insure his party maintains political controll. And he is trying to use his health as a cover tactic, to criticise anyone who points it out. It is a move of raw political power.

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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 12:20:05 PM   
maybemaybenot


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The sadly humorous part of Kennedy's letter to the governor is the part where he wants to ensure the people of Massachusetts are represented with 2 Senate votes. This coming from the Senator who has been absent for 96% of the Senate votes this year. So I guess he wants to ensure we get what he hasn't given us. Makes sense to me.

                                        mbmbn



http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/k000105/votes/missed/

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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 12:23:03 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
in both cases he is trying to insure the seat stays in party hands.


Exactly, Ron, and he is putting that partisan goal above the rule of law.  What do we call it when the laws change according to the circumstances?



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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 12:25:10 PM   
Brain


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The many accomplishments of the remarkable Ted Kennedy family:

Hardball Colbert grills Matthews on Comedy Central
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/#32513077



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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 12:56:30 PM   
Arpig


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Hardly what I'd call grilling him, at least not in that clip.

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RE: Ted Kennedy - 8/23/2009 1:02:29 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie
Mnot, I am glad you agree with me that it is a purely Political Party based move. And that SOT was incorrect in pretending, "this is not a partisan matter at all."


I do not agree with anything of the like......I was going to let you off the hook, as I so often have......remember, it wasn't me who did you in the last time.......but here are some of your quotes on this thread, none out of context, in fact some are complete postings:

quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie
Wow, I had allways thought there was a bit of exxxageration to people complaigning about Kenedy, but I guess I was wrong. What an absolute scumbag. The Dems really need to knock this shit off. The idea of being a nation of laws, matters.
What Kenedy is attempting to do now is a disgusting corruption of the concept of the Rule of Law. And he deserves to be called on it.
He is absolulty asking for the law to be changed. Asking for it to changed back from what he asked for before. 4 years ago.

I stand by my assertion that this is a perversion of the concept of rule of law. IF you just switch it nilly willy so you side gets power no matter what, its a joke. And it's not a joke. These are the very real bonds of social contract that keep violence to a minimum and society functioning. To screw with them is very dangerous. Thats not hyperbole.
The only reason they are trying to change the law is power. Using a dying man to do it, is rather scummy.
They are not putting it infront of the electorate.


Trying to avoid criticism by using the man's health is really scummy.

And more important it is an appeal to emotion, not reason, which you can certainly agree with me is not a good thing for republics, right?

I suppose it is up to the voters of Mass to decide, but It seems wrong to waste millions of tax dollars durring a crisis, getting a special law to keep one party in power.

But that's how Dems roll...

I am all in favor of him not dying, but that doesn't really matter.

The voters choose to elect him with his health problems, and the law as it is. That was thier will. Now he wants to change it, and is using his health to tug the heartstrings for support.

There is no reason at all to change the law (which costs a lot of money to do) except to keep Power in the Democrats hands.

Sorry you don't like it being pointed out.


Now, you write on another thread:

quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie
It's the job of the Senators and Representatives to decide how to vote on these things Mnot. Righty tighty fluff aside. At least Republicans can run a Government. Put the Dems in complete charge, and they still run around in circles blaming Republicans and voters, yammering about midterms. There is allways a midterm coming up.

Are you missing something? Its hard to tell. You seem to be in disagreement with the lefties. It is still quite a vauge thing that there doesn't seem to be an actuall "Dem Plan". To me it would seem easier to sell an actuall plan, but obviously the Dem Leadership disagrees. I agree with you, probably no health bill while the Dems run the show, though I reach that conclusion through a different route.


And immediately after your post, I point out that they are not there to vote their own self-interest. Your retort (which kinda reminds me of a bitch clawing about like she's to be punked):

quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie

OK, now I understand your confusion.

Your representatives are not your personal representative. You are no more important to them, than any other constiutuant of thiers. I am not sure what your districts are, so I will use some made up numbers. Your congress man has 20,000+ other constituants. Your sentor has a million+. Why would your opinion rule over all the others? Think about how unreasonable that is.

So if you start with that profound a misconception on how the world works, no wonder you are upset and spouting profanity like that. 3 sentances- 2 fuckers, 2 shits, and a cocksucker....

And I am not trying to sell you anything. Why would I waste my time doing that? I am trying to convince the non contributing readers of this thread, that my viewpoint has validity more often than not. Cause I am a geek like that.



So, with the evidence before me, his unilaterally trying to advance the cause for his state (as he sees it, self-interest and all, because; I gotta believe he thinks he has done a hell of a lotta good for his state). Is something wholly repugnant to you, and causes you to do a complete 180 on your view, because he's a democrat. Now had it been George W. Bush, or hell, even FirmHandKY who advanced a notion like this, you would be felch the works of them.....


So, this little vignette should be sufficient cause to inform folks that you will talk out of both sides of your mouth, if you can disparage anything that is not republican. You did it when you pretended to be someone else, you will do it while you are pretending to be you.

But you are going to have problems forcing people to believe that you have a reasoned logic behind you.

Ron



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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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