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Monogomy - 2/24/2006 4:02:58 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		i think i am in a reflective mood... nevertheless i have a question. In the past several months i have thought about this question alot. I see slaves/submissives that say at one time they would never be in any sort of relationship that wasn't totally monogomous, then they meet One and suddenly, it becomes ok for their One to want another. Here's my question as blunt as it may be... what part of you thinks you are not enough to fullfill One? and is is that simple or more deep? For that matter... what makes a Master/Dom NEED more than one? lol i am so in a reflective mood today.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

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RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 4:10:04 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic
what part of you thinks you are not enough to fullfill One?

That's not what polyamory is about.

Sadly, yes, these subs are oftenlulled into a relationship and then sprung into a trap of "HA, now you have my collar and I'll make you part of my harem!" The sub, wanting to remain true to the commitments,a nd sometimes afraid to end it, will try and try to make it work.

It's not feeling as if you are not enough to fulfill one any more than a daughter should feel they are not enough to fulfill their parents if they choose to have another child.

quote:

For that matter... what makes a Master/Dom NEED more than one? lol i am so in a reflective mood today.

For those who actually ARE oriented to being poly, it's simply how they are. Just like being heterosexual. You are fulfilled in that relationship, loving more than one is natural and simple (as simple as it can be).

However, to a lot of them, they are simply wanting the ego stroke, cool factor of it. The good news is that those really don't work in the long term, unfortuantely a lot of subs can let themselves get sucked into it.


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 4:14:25 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		LA, how is that good news? they could/maybe/possibly be terribly hurt in the long run... and i wasn't speaking about poly relationships. i'm speaking about one that has zero desire to be in a poly relationship... then they meet One and He has a need (for whatever reason) to add another... then BOOM they are ok with this... what in the world possesses one to give up his/her ideals... and what in the world possesses a Master/Dom to start out being ok with the one, then suddenly they decide they need more?

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


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RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 4:17:21 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		as an aside... i may not understand poly, but i can respect it... if it is done from the get go... it's the 'after i collar you' NOW i've decided you aren't enough and i want more concept i have difficulty with.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


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RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 4:19:45 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic
what in the world possesses one to give up his/her ideals... and what in the world possesses a Master/Dom to start out being ok with the one, then suddenly they decide they need more?

OK you're asking two very different questions here.
First part:
They aren't just giving up their ideals- they are taking on a new set of ideals.

There could be many reasons for this- self-awareness, new perspectives, loss of fear, unexpected revelation. Or the not so good reasons- desparation, fear, lack of understanding and so on.

And it's their choice. We can change religions if we want to. We can change careers if we want to. We can decide to have babies if we want to. If it's where they feel their lives are going, more to them. Getting into the scene is usually a huge period of growth and forced awareness for people, it's not surprising that several other experimentation and ideas would be gone through in the same mix.

Second:
It's fairly uncool to come off as a dom who wants monogamy and then decides for more later. MOST OFTENi t means the guy really just wanted more all along but wanted someone they could count on first.

In the rare other cases, where a dom actually DOES decide securely that this is where they want to go, it is a big issue that needs to be worked through. And it is a personal revelation.



_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to angelic)
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RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 4:31:12 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		ok.. but the original dynamics of the 'relationship' have significantly changed. Maybe this should be a question to the Masters... hell i don't know... i am truly just trying to understand (i SAID i was in a reflective mood lol)... what concerns me is that by the time the Master/Dom 'has this revelation' the submissive/slave is so hooked that he/she will do ANYTHING to keep Him/Her...

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


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RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 5:11:04 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

as an aside... i may not understand poly, but i can respect it... if it is done from the get go... it's the 'after i collar you' NOW i've decided you aren't enough and i want more concept i have difficulty with.


That's quite different from the original post. Sure, getting someone into a relationship under false pretenses is wrong. That's not limited to poly but also includes type and intensity of play as well as a number of other things.


_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

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RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 5:14:58 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

ok.. but the original dynamics of the 'relationship' have significantly changed. Maybe this should be a question to the Masters... hell i don't know... i am truly just trying to understand (i SAID i was in a reflective mood lol)... what concerns me is that by the time the Master/Dom 'has this revelation' the submissive/slave is so hooked that he/she will do ANYTHING to keep Him/Her...



What about the slave who desires poly and says so three years into the relationship but the Master went into the relationship with the intention of monogamy? This happened with my Lord and alandra. When she admitted her desire for poly it caused him to reevaluate what he wanted in a relationship.

It isn't just the dominant that grows and expands what they are interested in or what they desire.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to angelic)
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RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 5:20:15 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		agreed kyra i wasn't trying to limit it to one side or the other... but my question was from 'my' view... that's all..


_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


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RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 5:21:34 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

as an aside... i may not understand poly, but i can respect it... if it is done from the get go... it's the 'after i collar you' NOW i've decided you aren't enough and i want more concept i have difficulty with.


That's quite different from the original post. Sure, getting someone into a relationship under false pretenses is wrong. That's not limited to poly but also includes type and intensity of play as well as a number of other things.



my original post was on monogomy, Sir. it remains that


_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 5:32:55 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

as an aside... i may not understand poly, but i can respect it... if it is done from the get go... it's the 'after i collar you' NOW i've decided you aren't enough and i want more concept i have difficulty with.


That's quite different from the original post. Sure, getting someone into a relationship under false pretenses is wrong. That's not limited to poly but also includes type and intensity of play as well as a number of other things.

my original post was on monogomy, Sir. it remains that


The impression given in your first post was that you wanted poly people to justify their decision. This is about as possible as asking spankers or bondage people why they like what they do. I believe the phrase was "what part of you thinks you are not enough to fullfill One? and is is that simple or more deep? For that matter... what makes a Master/Dom NEED more than one?"

Why don't you expound on why you want a monogamous relationship? You could put up all the wonders of such a relationship without comparing it to other approaches.

Positive posts are always better than ones that go out of their way to knock other's lifesyles.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 5:47:07 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		i actually did not take angelic's comment as knocking anything. she said she respected poly even if she did not understand it.

she is talking about those who enter monogomous relationships, hoping they remain monogomous, and then the Master decides he wants a second and the slave no longer holds the monomogy boundary.

i think.

Speaking from my experience only, i wanted to be the only girl. i wanted to be "THAT special" that he ONLY wanted me....me me me :)

He told me from the start that he prefers more than one girl, and he would likely look for a second. i understood that going in. i told him i was so drawn to him i could not turn back, but that i had painful issues from a past situation that had gone very, very poorly. These conversations took place before he took ownership of me. Him wanting a 2nd was not a deal-breaker for me, but i would need his help to accept it without lots of pain involved. One of the things about him is that he has never put on me more than i can handle. He may push me to the edge sometimes, but never over it. Apparently my baggage about including a 2nd slave was not a deal breaker for him, either, and he has worked with me on this until i became worry free about it.

He has not taken a second girl (yet), but he does talk to others, and occasionally work with others, and has actually considered others. It is not a secret to me. But it is not the end-all for me either.

What happens, angelic, is over the coarse of time, our values change. What i receive from my Master is so incredibly GOOD. my life is so enhanced with him! What he does with others has absolutely no impact on me, and does not effect me at all. i am still loved by him. i am still dominated by him. i still grow because of him. Maybe it would help to think of it as a "limit" that one has, that over time changes because of the way one has evolved.

All i can say is being totally devoted to him, i want for him what he wants, and as a result i would welcome an addition. It has been part of my training.

Does that help at all?

Truth be told, it was generous of him to guide me along in this. my slavery is about serving HIM after all; it is not about me. my fulfillment comes from his pleasure.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 5:52:13 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

i'm speaking about one that has zero desire to be in a poly relationship


I have never been in a Poly relationship, but I have been in a monogamous relationship in which others were a part of from time to time. I, personally, have never desired to have more than one partner at a time, and I never will...but it does not change the fact that I HAVE had more than one partner at a time. Never did I ever have to give up my ideals, or dreams because of this. And never was I ever made to feel that this happened because I, in some way, was not giving him something that he wanted or needed.

The times that we were with others were actually suggested and set up by me, for certain reasons. But it never changed the fact that we still had a monogamous relationship, or that I ever 'GAVE UP' anything.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 5:52:46 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

as an aside... i may not understand poly, but i can respect it... if it is done from the get go... it's the 'after i collar you' NOW i've decided you aren't enough and i want more concept i have difficulty with.


That's quite different from the original post. Sure, getting someone into a relationship under false pretenses is wrong. That's not limited to poly but also includes type and intensity of play as well as a number of other things.

my original post was on monogomy, Sir. it remains that


The impression given in your first post was that you wanted poly people to justify their decision. This is about as possible as asking spankers or bondage people why they like what they do. I believe the phrase was "what part of you thinks you are not enough to fullfill One? and is is that simple or more deep? For that matter... what makes a Master/Dom NEED more than one?"

Why don't you expound on why you want a monogamous relationship? You could put up all the wonders of such a relationship without comparing it to other approaches.

Positive posts are always better than ones that go out of their way to knock other's lifesyles.


with all due respect, Sir... had i been questioning poly relationships i would have asked 'why do people engage in poly relationships'... that wasn't my question...

i have zero problem with Tthose in poly relationships.. it is not for me... but i have nothing against Their way of life... i appreciate Ttheir honesty.
If i stated anything in this thread that was offensive or a put down of Ttheir way of life... my sincerest, deepest apologizes.


_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 6:11:24 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

i actually did not take angelic's comment as knocking anything. she said she respected poly even if she did not understand it.

she is talking about those who enter monogomous relationships, hoping they remain monogomous, and then the Master decides he wants a second and the slave no longer holds the monomogy boundary.

i think.

Speaking from my experience only, i wanted to be the only girl. i wanted to be "THAT special" that he ONLY wanted me....me me me :)

He told me from the start that he prefers more than one girl, and he would likely look for a second. i understood that going in. i told him i was so drawn to him i could not turn back, but that i had painful issues from a past situation that had gone very, very poorly. These conversations took place before he took ownership of me. Him wanting a 2nd was not a deal-breaker for me, but i would need his help to accept it without lots of pain involved. One of the things about him is that he has never put on me more than i can handle. He may push me to the edge sometimes, but never over it. Apparently my baggage about including a 2nd slave was not a deal breaker for him, either, and he has worked with me on this until i became worry free about it.

He has not taken a second girl (yet), but he does talk to others, and occasionally work with others, and has actually considered others. It is not a secret to me. But it is not the end-all for me either.

What happens, angelic, is over the coarse of time, our values change. What i receive from my Master is so incredibly GOOD. my life is so enhanced with him! What he does with others has absolutely no impact on me, and does not effect me at all. i am still loved by him. i am still dominated by him. i still grow because of him. Maybe it would help to think of it as a "limit" that one has, that over time changes because of the way one has evolved.

All i can say is being totally devoted to him, i want for him what he wants, and as a result i would welcome an addition. It has been part of my training.

Does that help at all?

Truth be told, it was generous of him to guide me along in this. my slavery is about serving HIM after all; it is not about me. my fulfillment comes from his pleasure.


and..what she said




_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 6:23:10 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

i think i am in a reflective mood... nevertheless i have a question. In the past several months i have thought about this question alot. I see slaves/submissives that say at one time they would never be in any sort of relationship that wasn't totally monogomous, then they meet One and suddenly, it becomes ok for their One to want another. Here's my question as blunt as it may be... what part of you thinks you are not enough to fullfill One? and is is that simple or more deep? For that matter... what makes a Master/Dom NEED more than one? lol i am so in a reflective mood today.


I've been thinking on this subject a little bit today, and here's my thought.

Monogamy breaks down as a set of promises, oaths, and expectations. Why? Because people change and because they do not thrive under the yoke of obligation and past promises.

Monogamy, though, does thrive when it is earned. So, to me the question is does a monogamist "have what it takes" to earn another's exclusive devotion? Can the monogamist inspire monogamy in their partner? Its best to look within, not without. IMO a monogamist treads dangerously when she comes to expect it and judges her partner on what he does. This just leads to lying and cheating.

With my own wife, I have always said, "let the better man win." I always want her to feel she is free to choose and that I will always strive to be happy with the choices she makes. I strive to be sure she always gets a very best part of me, a part she just won't find anywhere else. If that doesn't work, well, that really has more to do with me than it does with her.

(in reply to angelic)
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RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 7:03:16 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		If im hearing what your saying its that " The Master presents a certain kind of relationship in the beginning, and once the submissive is hooked or in love or whatever, introduces other desires he kept hidden, thinking she would accept it eventually, knowing it was against her principles in the beginning" (not talking about changeable limits here).

I think thats a betrayal of trust and unfair and dumb and and and...

Saying that, desires, limits and even the way we live our lives can change over time. If it just happened naturally, and it wasnt devious or whatever.....

Could put the girl into a turmoil though.

ugh, sticky dilemma.

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 10:40:45 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		i shudder to enter this debate...again...but here goes: "monogamy" means different things to different people...and one area of confusion is that the term needs definition to move a discourse forward. Between a prospective Dom and a subby, or Master and slave, if monogamy is a hard limit for either of them, they need to be sure they understand that limit. And i believe what others have said is true; even hard limits have been known to change. However, i also agree with slavejali; the desire for 3somes or whatever should not be concealed for long.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 2/24/2006 10:41:48 PM >

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RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 11:14:16 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		<backspaces for sake of argument>

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Monogomy - 2/24/2006 11:22:39 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

<backspaces for sake of argument>


Um...then why post anything?

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Profile   Post #: 20
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