Looking for a word or term (Full Version)

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bmtphoenix -> Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:02:18 AM)

First off, if anyone gets upset about this post or any of the replies, my apologies in advance as that's not at all the intent.

I'm looking for a word or a term.  As far as I can tell, the word doesn't exist in either English or any other language, though I'm far from an expert on languages, so any guidance here would be helpful.  If anyone wants to play with languages and come up with a new word, that's great too. I'm really at a loss here.  I'm hoping for lots of varied responses and discussions as opposed to arguments.  Here's a very rough definition of this word that does not, to my knowledge, exist.  I'm thinking this could actually go somewhere...starting from scratch with a word that has no preconceptions, we could really accomplish something. 

noun - Someone who is willingly submissive to another person, and only that person.  Like a wife or husband (not necessarily legally married, but with the same degree of devotion) in that "He's mine and I'm hers, anything else is cheating, immoral, and unacceptable," but with one being submissive and the other being dominant. 

This person:

  1. Generally defers to their other in any final decisions and/or arguments.
  2. Willingly does what they are told to do by their other.
  3. Is generally respected as an intellectual equal.
  4. Can willingly leave their other.
  5. Is NOT broken, brainwashed, or in any way forced into this role.

This person may or may not:

  1. Have a dominating personality around people other than their "other half".
  2. Have a job where he/she does not answer to their other.
  3. Retain any of these traits in sexual situations.
  4. Regularly verbalize their own opinion and viewpoint.
  5. Have their "own thing" going on such as a hobby or business that has nothing to do with their other.
  6. Own property of their own.
  7. Be seen as property by either party, though it should be stated if that is the case or not.
  8. Be subject to other stated rules.
  9. Be subject to any type of domination in public.
  10. Be marked in any way, such as a tattoo or collar.
  11. Be subject to any type of punishment for any perceived or stated misbehavior.
  12. Be married.
  13. Be male or female (though if someone wants to come up with a male and female version, that's fine by me).

Sort of like a stereotypical 50's housewife, but with far more social "rights".

Why "slave" doesn't work:  Most definitions include the term "work" and conjure images of punishment as a matter of course.  Punishment may or may not be part of the relationship, and may or may not be as clear cut as one would expect of a stated slave/master relationship.  Slaves also may or may not be subject to being sold or traded.  This person is submissive only to one other person, no other. 

Why "sub" or "submissive" doesn't work:  Isn't really seen outside of the BDSM community as a noun, but as an adjective.  Doesn't specify devotion to one person exclusively.  May or may not be situational.

Why "kajira" doesn't work: Far too specific in all areas of life, including property ownership, etc.

Did I miss any?

Now don't think I'm dogging yours or anyone's relationship and what you call each other.  Not only is it none of my business, but whatever works for you and makes you happy is great for you.  However, I don't think I'm the only one looking for something here.








daintydimples -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:15:18 AM)

Surprisingly enough, the Goreans have a term for this: free woman.




Apocalypso -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:19:05 AM)

If you don't mind going a bit archaic, "vassal".




mnottertail -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:20:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples

Surprisingly enough, the Goreans have a term for this: free woman.


Here's the latest thread with that subject in the Gorean Section:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2729828/mpage_7/key_/tm.htm#2773141




bmtphoenix -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:22:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples

Surprisingly enough, the Goreans have a term for this: free woman.


Hah, this is true, but wouldn't work for obvious reasons.

quote:

If you don't mind going a bit archaic, "vassal".


Vassal is only one way; the Lord can do whatever he wants.




daintydimples -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:26:07 AM)

Free companion






LillyoftheVally -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:26:25 AM)

How about, partner?

I mean ok in my mothers relationship, she is more submissive, but she just calls her partner her partner, in my sisters relationship she is more dominant yet her partner is called partner.

Thing is, you dismissed the terms sub and slave and yet within those terms there are variations also, what you wrote was a specific type of relationship, if every single person here wrote how their relationship worked and the term they applied to it none would be identical.




bmtphoenix -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:27:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples

Free companion


That's not what I meant.  The words free and companion both already exist in common usage and don't really apply.




bmtphoenix -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:29:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally
Thing is, you dismissed the terms sub and slave and yet within those terms there are variations also, what you wrote was a specific type of relationship, if every single person here wrote how their relationship worked and the term they applied to it none would be identical.


True, but many are similar, and I think there's many people out there who see themselves as submissive, yet hesitate to use the words sub or slave because of what those terms could mean.




daintydimples -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:29:31 AM)

err....okay, whatevah !!




LillyoftheVally -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:30:28 AM)

Ok how about
sloselganger




daintydimples -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:31:28 AM)

*winks at lily as I crack up




FullCircle -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:34:48 AM)

There's got to be a name for this obsession with describing everything with one word.

I suggest that if it takes more than one paragraph to describe it then it can't be done.

Even some of the words described in the dictionary i.e. ‘slave’ hold other meanings to certain people.




Apocalypso -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:37:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bmtphoenix
Vassal is only one way; the Lord can do whatever he wants.

Not actually true.  The lord has more rights, but it is the case that feudal obligations were not entirely one way- if you look at the example of the lord and his knight, the lord did have definite obligations to feed and clothe his vassals.  And lords that were unable to meet that faced a great deal of social censure.




Musicmystery -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:38:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples

Surprisingly enough, the Goreans have a term for this: free woman/companion.


Strictly speaking, no.

But probably not worth delineating/debating here. Just point raised.

Carry on.

[By the way...Gorean slaves aren't broken down idiots either--chosen for intelligence first and foremost, followed by beauty (in the broad artistic/aesthetic sense) and femininity (as opposed to trying to be something she's not by nature)





Musicmystery -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:40:59 AM)

quote:

noun - Someone who is willingly submissive to another person, and only that person.  Like a wife or husband (not necessarily legally married, but with the same degree of devotion) in that "He's mine and I'm hers, anything else is cheating, immoral, and unacceptable," but with one being submissive and the other being dominant. 


Monogamous consensual submissive to a monogamous dominant.




daintydimples -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:42:59 AM)

I'm sure defining the term free companion is like defining slave or sub. Ask 50 people, you'll get 50 answers.

I thought the term free companion was *close.* But I admit at this point I'm unsure what the OP is actually looking for here.






Musicmystery -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:44:07 AM)

quote:

I'm sure defining the term free companion is like defining slave or sub.


Not among Goreans.

quote:

But I admit at this point I'm unsure what the OP is actually looking for here.


I'm always amazed at the amount of time and effort people invest in defining individual preferences instead of living them.

A society thing, I think--we live in our minds instead of living who we are.





SweetNika -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:46:29 AM)

Why is it so important to stick labels on everything or try to make them fit into neat little boxes? In some dynamics what you describe can either be d/s, m/s, or a 50's household .




leadership527 -> RE: Looking for a word or term (8/24/2009 8:49:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Monogamous consensual submissive to a monogamous dominant.
Sounds about right to me too.

OP: For me, the term "slave" implies TPE so the restrictions mentioned preclude that (not that I have much of an intention to sell Carol... someone would need to come up with more money than Bill Gates has to buy her). A LOT of other folks include a fair number of restrictions in their usage of "slave". But "sub" seems to fit the bill nicely. The fact that vanilla folks don't get it seems not particularly relevant. When I'm talking to a vanilla person, I refer to Carol as my "wife". If I want to talk about the power dynamic, I say, "My obedient wife". That conveys the thought pretty well. It's not difficult to talk to a vanilla person even about a TPE relationship if you use words that translate properly. And I see no reason that I can't use different terminology for different audiences. The point of communication is to communicate, not to win a terminology war.




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