'Exploding Deficits' (Full Version)

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Sanity -> 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 7:50:25 AM)


Not words that reasonable people want to hear right now. (Is that a light at the end of the economic tunnel, or is it an oncoming train?)


quote:

WASHINGTON - The federal government faces exploding deficits and mounting debt over the next decade, White House officials predicted Tuesday in a fiscal assessment far bleaker than what the Obama administration had estimated just a few months ago.


Figures released by the White House budget office foresee a cumulative $9 trillion deficit from 2010-2019, $2 trillion more than the administration estimated in May. Moreover, the figures show the public debt doubling by 2019 and reaching three-quarters the size of the entire national economy.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32551518/ns/politics-white_house



Esinn -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 8:36:54 AM)

It is a train.  Choka-Choka-Choka-Chew-Chew!  I think Obama is riding it and running down innocent white people.



rightwinghippie -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 9:10:11 AM)

Wow, Hijacking in the first response.

Thats something else people do when their core beliefs are challenged, and they are unable to respond in any sort of intellectuall way.



SpinnerofTales -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 9:56:49 AM)

To get us back on the track. Let's face it. We've been building this deficit and national debt since 1969. This means that both republican and democratic administrations have had their greedy little hands in it up to the elbows. The question is: what to do with it? I think we've seen that one party won't spend less than the other when it's in power. So what answers can we come up with?



Esinn -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 10:00:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie

Wow, Hijacking in the first response.

Thats something else people do when their core beliefs are challenged, and they are unable to respond in any sort of intellectuall way.


My bad



Esinn -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 10:10:19 AM)

Putting aside the fact that Obama is a black nazi racist with grandiose delusions for a moment. . .  I think ending the illgeal war he inherited is a step in the right direction of ending the deficit he inherited.

No, no wait let's just blame it on him.



Esinn -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 10:12:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

Putting aside the fact that Obama is a black nazi racist with grandiose delusions(Edit: who wants to murder old people) for a moment. . .  I think ending the illgeal war he inherited is a step in the right direction of ending the deficit he inherited.

No, no wait let's just blame it on him.




Esinn -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 10:15:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie

Wow, Hijacking in the first response.

Thats something else people do when their core beliefs are challenged, and they are unable to respond in any sort of intellectuall way.


Is 'hijacking' a fallacy?  I searched for a minute or two and found nothing.

Hijacking - attempts, by 'non intellectual methods' to change the topic through misdirection?



OrionTheWolf -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 10:36:14 AM)

Running down innocent white people? Now I am not one to usually say this, but that is a pretty fucking racist remark.

Now what the hell does your racist comment have to do with exploding deficits, other than provide strawman/hijack of the actual topic of exploding deficits.

Now to the OP, this is not surprising to me, and it is not just Obama that has done this. Maybe people should start here http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer and stop voting for the politicians that are wasting money. If you look you will find both parties involved in government waste, as it is not a party issue. If  single person has a problem with this mounting deficit, and they continue to vote for these porkers, then they are as much a problem as the porkers.

Anger is building in this country, and it has been for a while now. It has nothing to do with who is President, it has to do with the abdication of responsibility by the politicians.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

It is a train.  Choka-Choka-Choka-Chew-Chew!  I think Obama is riding it and running down innocent white people.



Sanity -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 1:40:52 PM)


That's one thing I always hated about Bush, as well - fiscally, he was very Liberal. He never vetoed a single spending bill. Not even once...

I had a very slight hope that when Obama was running vs. McCain and they both pledged fiscal restraint and balanced budgets that it meant something.



Esinn -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 2:56:53 PM)

I know no one probably cares.  But, I just ran across the hijacking fact.  Let me eat them words.  IT was not my intention to Hijack.

Sanity has made some very extreme claims about Death Panels, Deficit is all Obama's doing, Obama is some sort of Nazi, Obama is racist, Obama hangs out with black Nazi's.  The racist claims are so far out of wack the world's largest christian owned family superstore does not support them. For the others the only evidence which exists are 'group conspiracy' theories.  Reading a little from here, reading from there, taking this idea then applying it to this one there and putting a twist on this - detailed such a mechanism in another thread.

My intention was to poke fun at the ideas not be a hijacker which I now understand.



Sanity -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 3:00:20 PM)


You would be doing yourself a favor if you were to slow down and read what I actually write as opposed to what you're projecting on me because many of your opinions regarding my postings are wildly inaccurate.



rightwinghippie -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 3:55:34 PM)

Esinn, then maybe you should start a thread about Sanity.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 4:12:16 PM)

One of the things I find interesting is that so many are willing to argue about health care, the use of the military, the stimulus package, bailouts, and many other things, but when I check the profile location of some posters, and then check the pork listings in the website I posted, I find that some of them are supporting the politicians that are wasting money.

If the government had shown some fiscal responsibility in the last few decades, I might not be as resistant to them managing some kind of health care for everyone. Instead I see that it will just be a cash cow program for many of the politicians corporate backers, or a program that will take more money from the taxpayer and put it into some businesses pockets, without doing as much good as it could.

Politicians believe they have a blank check to do all their pet projects, and call them government funds. Instead of government funds I call them our fucking money, they are trusted to spend responsibily.




SpinnerofTales -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 5:03:01 PM)

quote:

One of the things I find interesting is that so many are willing to argue about health care, the use of the military, the stimulus package, bailouts, and many other things, but when I check the profile location of some posters, and then check the pork listings in the website I posted, I find that some of them are supporting the politicians that are wasting money.
ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf




Please cite me a politician who is NOT wasting money. It shouldn't be a long post.




rulemylife -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 5:19:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

One of the things I find interesting is that so many are willing to argue about health care, the use of the military, the stimulus package, bailouts, and many other things, but when I check the profile location of some posters, and then check the pork listings in the website I posted, I find that some of them are supporting the politicians that are wasting money.


And how are you able to determine this?

I'm pretty sure I've never listed in my profile who I've voted for and can't ever remember seeing anyone else doing that either.

quote:


If the government had shown some fiscal responsibility in the last few decades, I might not be as resistant to them managing some kind of health care for everyone. Instead I see that it will just be a cash cow program for many of the politicians corporate backers, or a program that will take more money from the taxpayer and put it into some businesses pockets, without doing as much good as it could.


You mean all the good it is currently doing in the hands of private insurance?

Yes, we surely wouldn't want to lose all those benefits to society as the health insurance companies have selflessly sacrificed for the common good.

quote:



Politicians believe they have a blank check to do all their pet projects, and call them government funds. Instead of government funds I call them our fucking money, they are trusted to spend responsibily.


I would rather my "fucking money" go to finance health care for my fucking country then to be used to liberate the oppressed people in Iraq. 

Or maybe liberate their oil would be more accurate.



awmslave -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/25/2009 10:53:13 PM)

quote:

Figures released by the White House budget office foresee a cumulative $9 trillion deficit from 2010-2019


Deficit spending has limits. What is it? Do White House smart guys explain it to the people? Also, actions by foreign countries can  make big difference (undetermined factor).



tazzygirl -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/26/2009 5:57:39 AM)

In '98, we had a huge surplus. by '02, we were in the red again. 08' almost 500 million in the red, and facing an economic melt down. according to the graph in this mornings pittsburgh post gazette.

and they wonder why we will be further in the red?



OrionTheWolf -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/26/2009 6:05:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

One of the things I find interesting is that so many are willing to argue about health care, the use of the military, the stimulus package, bailouts, and many other things, but when I check the profile location of some posters, and then check the pork listings in the website I posted, I find that some of them are supporting the politicians that are wasting money.


And how are you able to determine this?

I'm pretty sure I've never listed in my profile who I've voted for and can't ever remember seeing anyone else doing that either.


By looking at the area they are from, and then when they state their political affiliation openly on the forums. Looking in the last election and then seeing that only a Republican or Democrat ran, and that person states they hate all Dems or Reps. It is called deductive reasoning and logic.

quote:


quote:


If the government had shown some fiscal responsibility in the last few decades, I might not be as resistant to them managing some kind of health care for everyone. Instead I see that it will just be a cash cow program for many of the politicians corporate backers, or a program that will take more money from the taxpayer and put it into some businesses pockets, without doing as much good as it could.


You mean all the good it is currently doing in the hands of private insurance?

Yes, we surely wouldn't want to lose all those benefits to society as the health insurance companies have selflessly sacrificed for the common good.


Straw man argument. No one said that we should hand it over to the insurance companies, except YOU. I am talking about government waste and how many of their programs, including Medicare, turn into cash cows because the government has little incentives to save money. The people sure are not holding them accountable. So stay on point here about the deficit and government waste.

quote:


quote:



Politicians believe they have a blank check to do all their pet projects, and call them government funds. Instead of government funds I call them our fucking money, they are trusted to spend responsibly.


I would rather my "fucking money" go to finance health care for my fucking country then to be used to liberate the oppressed people in Iraq. 


See now this is staying on point, very good. Yes the amount of money wasted on the "Liberation of Iraq" was a monumental mistake, but the majority of the politicians supported it at the time. Now the question is, why are we still there with such a large presence.

Now if they did have all those billions wasted on that war, would they spend it effectively or would it be a lot of government waste yet again?

Since that money was wasted, and we are already looking at huge deficits, can the country even afford any other major programs?

quote:


Or maybe liberate their oil would be more accurate.



I believe there was a more insidious reason but that is for another topic and off point in this one.



UncleNasty -> RE: 'Exploding Deficits' (8/26/2009 6:11:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

In '98, we had a huge surplus. by '02, we were in the red again. 08' almost 500 million in the red, and facing an economic melt down. according to the graph in this mornings pittsburgh post gazette.

and they wonder why we will be further in the red?


Memory tells me we had no surplus during, or after, the Clinton administration. I recall there was a projected surplus, not an actual surplus.

Uncle Nasty



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