RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/27/2009 4:23:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
A conservative would be a person who be pragmatically against any such government dictatorial control preferring, good or bad, the 'status quo'.


And would this conservative then defend invading a country under false pretenses, wholesale wiretapping, the patriot act, imprisoning people without benefit of the law, torture.........
Or did you misspell something, Merc?

Ron

This? I can't speak to since I have no idea who the 'this' is.

However as a blanket statement - No 'conservatives' wouldn't.

How is that germane to the question? I think it points clearly to a mislabeling done in the past; however, although that opinion has been shared by others in the past, I doubt it serves the agenda of either side and is therefore dismissed.

What do you think? And since I had to edit to make sure I was considering the right 'this'; why only address one side of the equation? That's not like you.



Leiren -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/27/2009 4:26:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

what's the difference between a conservative and a fascist
A fascist is a person who believes in or sympathizes with fascism; which is defined as forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce; similar to the recent take over of GM and Chrysler; personified by Speaker Pelosi identifying the opposition as "Nazis".

A conservative would be a person who be pragmatically against any such government dictatorial control preferring, good or bad, the 'status quo'.


Thank you Merc!

I've already stated (multiple times) that I'm neither Democrat or Republican. I find both of those political designations archaic and useless under our current conditions in the U.S.

I campaigned for Ron Paul in the 2008 campaign. He chose to run as a Republican, which I believe was his downfall.

He would have garnered more support by running as a Libertarian. That Libertarian thing seems to be more what Ron Paul represents. He doesn't (in my opinion) fall into either of the two main stream parties.

My supposition is that Ron Paul chose to run as a Republican because traditionally non mainstream parties are largely ignored by the masses.

Again, just my opinion, but I hope to see in my own lifetime a viable third party candidate be taken seriously.

And what's with these people from the U.K. dictating U.S politics? I have to wonder why it's so necessary to them to insinuate themselves. If I were a nut job conspiracies theorist, I'd be screaming NEW WORLD ORDER!

And maybe that is really what Obama is aiming at. The demolition of the United States sovereignty in favor of a global government where the U.S. takes a back seat to the purported New Word Order and bows to their New Word Order masters!

Honestly? The more I hear him speak and the more his little Nazi appointees support his nonsense, the closer I come to believing in that NWO conspiracy theory.



mnottertail -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/27/2009 4:27:37 PM)

So, if I understand what you said to me, you are of the same opinion in this matter as I, that the great majority of people who are defending these practices, IN ANY VENUE (including this) are in no wise conservatives, but blithering fools.

And it is nothing but germane, Merc.

Ron

and it should have been 'a' conservative (in the royal sense; (for luckydog) as a synecdoche) apologies for that Merc.



philosophy -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/27/2009 4:32:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


And we're supposed to believe that all of this baiting on your part, and on Ron's part, is a moderate thing???

[sm=biggrin.gif]


...as opposed to you accusing a man of rape and murder on the very first day that you can't be legally held accountable for doing so?

Not moderate, not honourable, not brave....just craven.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/27/2009 4:32:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, if I understand what you said to me, you are of the same opinion in this matter as I, that the great majority of people who are defending these practices, IN ANY VENUE (including this) are in no wise conservatives, but blthering fools.

And it is nothing but germane, Merc.
Ron

To the question of what is a conservative it is not germane. The the question as to who is conservative it is.

And although more difficult to provide a blanket assessment and replacing "blithering fools" with naive, and/or misinformed, we are more in agreement than disagreement.

However, as the reversal of many positions on these threads points out, sometimes the defending or condemning of these practices is more related to the political party in power and not the acts themselves. In those cases the more accurate label is hypocrite.



philosophy -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/27/2009 4:33:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leiren

And what's with these people from the U.K. dictating U.S politics?


...yeah, if only the interweb was closed to non-Americans....[8|]




Leiren -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/27/2009 4:38:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

And we're supposed to believe that all of this baiting on your part, and on Ron's part, is a moderate thing???

[sm=biggrin.gif]


You know that's total bullshit, right? Back in 1969 when Teddy drove that car off the bridge and got himself safely out of the car and yet didn't report the (cough) 'accident' for 10 hours he lost all credibility to most sane people.

It was only his Kennedy name and his Kennedy money that bought him a free pass for allowing a young woman to drown. And as I mentioned in another post on this same thread, TEDDY had the bad taste to show up at Mary Jo's funeral wearing a neck brace that after the funeral, he was never seen wearing again.

What an insult to her own family for the man that allowed her to die to attend her funeral. If I had been amongst her family, I would have had his negligent and lying ass thrown out. He was totally disrepectful to her and her family.

Again, as I stated in an earlier post on this very thread, IF Teddy had the balls to immediately report that he drove his car into the water, LE could have saved her.

He wasn't interested in that. He was trying to cover his own self perceived entitled ass since that had always been his family tradition.







mnottertail -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/27/2009 4:39:17 PM)

quote:


And what's with these people from the U.K. dictating U.S politics? I have to wonder why it's so necessary to them to insinuate themselves. If I were a nut job conspiracies theorist, I'd be screaming NEW WORLD ORDER!


you need a dictionary; they dictate nothing, however; they can influence us, time to time.

the why is summed up readily in this fashion:

So, let us not be blind to our differences–but let us also direct attention to our common interests and to the means by which those differences can be resolved. And if we cannot end now our differences, at least we can help make the world safe for diversity. For, in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children’s future. And we are all mortal.

JFK, June 1963.





mnottertail -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/27/2009 4:47:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, if I understand what you said to me, you are of the same opinion in this matter as I, that the great majority of people who are defending these practices, IN ANY VENUE (including this) are in no wise conservatives, but blthering fools.

And it is nothing but germane, Merc.
Ron

To the question of what is a conservative it is not germane. The the question as to who is conservative it is.

And although more difficult to provide a blanket assessment and replacing "blithering fools" with naive, and/or misinformed, we are more in agreement than disagreement.

However, as the reversal of many positions on these threads points out, sometimes the defending or condemning of these practices is more related to the political party in power and not the acts themselves. In those cases the more accurate label is hypocrite.



I accept your assumptions and therefore accept the deal Merc. I concur with this wholeheartedly.



Politesub53 -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/27/2009 4:48:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leiren

And what's with these people from the U.K. dictating U.S politics? I have to wonder why it's so necessary to them to insinuate themselves. If I were a nut job conspiracies theorist, I'd be screaming NEW WORLD ORDER!

 

Dont you realise American foreign policy affects everyone ?  Dont people have a right to speak on a forum if their view differs from yours ? Dont you realise the sub prime mortgage debts caused problems world wide ? Dont you know American allies died in Iraq because of the lies about wmd`s ?

quote:


And maybe that is really what Obama is aiming at. The demolition of the United States sovereignty in favor of a global government where the U.S. takes a back seat to the purported New Word Order and bows to their New Word Order masters!


Dont you know many American politicians have spoken of a New World Order, including Clinton, Bush sr and Bush jr as well as Henry Kissinger ?

quote:


Honestly? The more I hear him speak and the more his little Nazi appointees support his nonsense, the closer I come to believing in that NWO conspiracy theory.


Dont you know what that the Nazis stood for racial supremacy ? For Gods sake get a grip.




Leiren -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/27/2009 4:55:42 PM)

FR reply to politesub:

Check out the site infowars.com.

Like I said, I've never been a conspiracy theorist until Obama got elected.



Politesub53 -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/27/2009 5:00:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leiren

FR reply to politesub:

Check out the site infowars.com.

Like I said, I've never been a conspiracy theorist until Obama got elected.



Errrr why ? I prefer actual historical data. Which particular point do you wish me to check ?  Let me know and i will take a look.



BitaTruble -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/27/2009 6:06:32 PM)

Ted Kennedy - worthy of both praise and condemnation. Truly a man who was prevented from soaring with eagles by his own actions and the chains of a ghost but ultimately, merely mortal. He did great things, he did terrible things but rather than raise a toast to his dust, I think I will just recognize the good and appreciate that, acknowledge the bad and damn that and as he is done, I'll be done as well.




Brain -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/27/2009 8:24:46 PM)

Michelle and I were heartbroken to learn this morning of the death of our dear friend, Senator Ted Kennedy. For nearly five decades, virtually every major piece of legislation to advance the civil rights, health and economic well-being of the American people bore his name and resulted from his efforts.

His ideas and ideals are stamped on scores of laws and reflected in millions of lives -- in seniors who know new dignity; in families that know new opportunity; in children who know education's promise; and in all who can pursue their dream in an America that is more equal and more just, including me.

In the United States Senate, I can think of no one who engendered greater respect or affection from members of both sides of the aisle. His seriousness of purpose was perpetually matched by humility, warmth and good cheer. He battled passionately on the Senate floor for the causes that he held dear, and yet still maintained warm friendships across party lines. And that's one reason he became not only one of the greatest senators of our time, but one of the most accomplished Americans ever to serve our democracy.

I personally valued his wise counsel in the Senate, where, regardless of the swirl of events, he always had time for a new colleague. I cherished his confidence and momentous support in my race for the Presidency. And even as he waged a valiant struggle with a mortal illness, I've benefited as President from his encouragement and wisdom.

His fight gave us the opportunity we were denied when his brothers John and Robert were taken from us: the blessing of time to say thank you and goodbye. The outpouring of love, gratitude and fond memories to which we've all borne witness is a testament to the way this singular figure in American history touched so many lives.

For America, he was a defender of a dream. For his family, he was a guardian. Our hearts and prayers go out to them today -- to his wonderful wife, Vicki, his children Ted Jr., Patrick and Kara, his grandchildren and his extended family. Today, our country mourns. We say goodbye to a friend and a true leader who challenged us all to live out our noblest values. And we give thanks for his memory, which inspires us still.

Sincerely,
President Barack Obama



Sanity -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/28/2009 4:19:50 AM)


Obama is the last Kennedy brother, you know.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/08/obama-called-the-newest-kennedy-brother-to-eulogize-ted-at-saturday-funeral.html

The dynasty shall live on!  



servantforuse -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/28/2009 4:24:45 AM)

And Bill Clinton was really the first black president. He said so himself...



RapierFugue -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/28/2009 4:25:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

For America, he was a defender of a dream. For his family, he was a guardian.



For bridge designers, he was good evidence that Armco is worth its weight in gold.



servantforuse -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/28/2009 11:06:02 AM)

I understand that the Kennedy trust will not be paying for the funeral. The tab will be picked up by Cutty Sark...



Blaakmaan -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/28/2009 11:18:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

For bridge designers, he was good evidence that Armco is worth its weight in gold.


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I understand that the Kennedy trust will not be paying for the funeral. The tab will be picked up by Cutty Sark...


I'm very pleased to see that distastefully ignorant remarks aren't just the province of Michael Jackson haters.

Apparently, Kennedy haters can be just as distastefully ignorant.

Isn't that wonderful?

Maybe we DO live in a color-blind world!!!

On second thought--no, we don't.

Scratch that...

But, it was worth a try!



RapierFugue -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/28/2009 11:22:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

For bridge designers, he was good evidence that Armco is worth its weight in gold.


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I understand that the Kennedy trust will not be paying for the funeral. The tab will be picked up by Cutty Sark...


I'm very pleased to see that distastefully ignorant remarks aren't just the province of Michael Jackson haters.

Apparently, Kennedy haters can be just as distastefully ignorant.



Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm not a Kennedy hater.



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