Bad times for High technology and possible War

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blacksword404 -> Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 8:38:38 AM)
World faces hi-tech crunch as China eyes ban on rare metal exports Beijing is drawing up plans to prohibit or restrict exports of rare earth metals that are produced only in China and play a vital role in cutting edge technology, from hybrid cars and catalytic converters, to superconductors, and precision-guided weapons. A draft report by China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology has called for a total ban on foreign shipments of terbium, dysprosium, yttrium, thulium, and lutetium. Other metals such as neodymium, europium, cerium, and lanthanum will be restricted to a combined export quota of 35,000 tonnes a year, far below global needs. China mines over 95pc of the world’s rare earth minerals, mostly in Inner Mongolia. The move to hoard reserves is the clearest sign to date that the global struggle for diminishing resources is shifting into a new phase. Countries may find it hard to obtain key materials at any price.

mnottertail -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 8:41:29 AM)
I got clean water, and I am holding on to it. I always thought it was a severely bad idea for the US (and other leading powers) to rely so heavily on zappy high tech in the military...........

blacksword404 -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 8:46:13 AM)
It isn't to hard to see how China could hold the World by the balls if it wants. Withholding these metals could destroy a countries economy. And it would be worse if say China and Russia decide to hook-up. With Russia's oil and gas and China's metals there might be a serious problem in the future.

sappatoti -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 8:52:02 AM)
This was the type of problem that many in the US military raised as a possibility back in the 1980s. They questioned the wisdom of using components based upon materials and sub-assemblies from other countries in US weapons systems. However, when the "get as much value as you can for the buck" people became too numerous, the voices of the "let's keep our defense technology completely in-house" group were lost in the noise. Now it appears those fears weren't totally unwarranted. Perhaps there is a chance now that the US and other western countries will ramp up their moth-balled industries and start bringing some of this mining and high technology manufacturing back within our borders. Maybe I'm dreaming... P.S. Here's a link to the full story as written up by The Telegraph.

blacksword404 -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 8:52:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I got clean water, and I am holding on to it. I always thought it was a severely bad idea for the US (and other leading powers) to rely so heavily on zappy high tech in the military........... Hell the way those lakes up there in Mn are going you might be trading that water on the market. Having the best military technology is a good thing. But when you are not making all the componants yourself, you leave yourself open. We have a bad case of shortsightedness.

mnottertail -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 8:54:42 AM)
Blacksword, That's not all..........google china copper china shoots down satellite china is hoarding copper, (and who knows what other base metals besides their hitech metals), bought a large copper mine in chile, for dimes on the dollar (which is where we would prolly have to go in a war to get ours) and shot down a satellite with a plain old everyday missile.. Our militaries would be blind without satellites, copper is base to all electronics, and having depleted our treasury and borrowed to the hilt from them, I think we are in a very, very uncomfortable situation. Ron

blacksword404 -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 9:00:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sappatoti This was the type of problem that many in the US military raised as a possibility back in the 1980s. They questioned the wisdom of using components based upon materials and sub-assemblies from other countries in US weapons systems. However, when the "get as much value as you can for the buck" people became too numerous, the voices of the "let's keep our defense technology completely in-house" group were lost in the noise. Now it appears those fears weren't totally unwarranted. Perhaps there is a chance now that the US and other western countries will ramp up their moth-balled industries and start bringing some of this mining and high technology manufacturing back within our borders. Maybe I'm dreaming... P.S. Here's a link to the full story as written up by The Telegraph. Thanks. Forgot to put the link in. The bureaucracy in Government seems to naturally push away anybody with foresight. First we have to see it for the problem it is. Then ramp our production up. Maybe we can start making our own again. With the environmental issues with some of these metal, who knows.

mnottertail -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 9:04:28 AM)
well, term limits dont help, it is handle the problem for now to look good, their will be another administration in here in 4 to 8 years. Our government lacks a continuity.

sappatoti -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 9:07:46 AM)
Since you mentioned the bureaucracy, I remembered it was the uniformed officers of the day that questioned going outside of the US for materials and parts. The civilian watch-dogs, always trying to save a few beans, overruled the uniforms and started changing the procurement policies.

blacksword404 -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 9:25:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Blacksword, That's not all..........google china copper china shoots down satellite china is hoarding copper, (and who knows what other base metals besides their hitech metals), bought a large copper mine in chile, for dimes on the dollar (which is where we would prolly have to go in a war to get ours) and shot down a satellite with a plain old everyday missile.. Our militaries would be blind without satellites, copper is base to all electronics, and having depleted our treasury and borrowed to the hilt from them, I think we are in a very, very uncomfortable situation. Ron I remember them shooting down that satellite. I think it was a signal. Kind of like throwing a quarter in the air and shooting it. China is making it's moves and we are not positioning ourselves well. I think the world will end up moving away from GPS to possibly Galileo. We have to stop all this spending and start repaying this money. China holds way to much over our heads to owe them this much money.

blacksword404 -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 9:34:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail well, term limits dont help, it is handle the problem for now to look good, their will be another administration in here in 4 to 8 years. Our government lacks a continuity. Kick the can down the road to the next guy. Getting them to focus on the key issues has been a problem for years. Like a bunch of damn children. I remember when that bridge collapsed in Minneapolis. The were focused on bridges for a quick minute and then it was back to arguing over pork and other bullshit. What about the bridges? We still going to fix them?

mnottertail -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 9:34:29 AM)
Galileo is still satellites, and the minumum needed for accurate positioning is 4. I don't know that they would even have to take them down, they could take a conventional missile and do a star wars type of shoot ball bearings at them and in their vicinity to discomboobilate them. SunTzu

blacksword404 -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 9:38:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sappatoti Since you mentioned the bureaucracy, I remembered it was the uniformed officers of the day that questioned going outside of the US for materials and parts. The civilian watch-dogs, always trying to save a few beans, overruled the uniforms and started changing the procurement policies. Doesn't surprise me. Bean counters know about pinching pennies. But little about the consequences of changing a policy like that.

blacksword404 -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 9:44:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Galileo is still satellites, and the minumum needed for accurate positioning is 4. I don't know that they would even have to take them down, they could take a conventional missile and do a star wars type of shoot ball bearings at them and in their vicinity to discomboobilate them. SunTzu Things like that can blind us. That might be the next big thing. Start positioning bombs and missiles in space. I hope we at least have a few smart people left in the government to think shit like this up and prepare for it. But then again we are broke. And the administration is eying NASA for some cutbacks.

PyrotheClown -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 12:29:47 PM)
Haha, Great,like china's insane man power wasn't scary enough http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5QLZ4oj_6A

mnottertail -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 12:40:40 PM)
We can take some cold comfort in the fact that China has never in its ancient or modern history actually gazed beyond the asian continent for the purposes of domination. It is not clear whether even today we could withstand them should they seek suzerainty. And since they have never invaded us, but we have invaded them.......that does not rest easy upon the brow for me, considering the slow and methodical way they persevere since ancient time. Ron

olena -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 12:43:30 PM)
Necessity is the mother of invention. They stop exporting then the likelihood is our scientist will find a way to work with what we can get. It would probably only be a short term problem that people project to be forever.

olena -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 12:46:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail We can take some cold comfort in the fact that China has never in its ancient or modern history actually gazed beyond the asian continent for the purposes of domination. It is not clear whether even today we could withstand them should they seek suzerainty. And since they have never invaded us, but we have invaded them.......that does not rest easy upon the brow for me, considering the slow and methodical way they persevere since ancient time. Ron You cannot collect from someone you killed. We owe China too much money for them to “go after us”. More liklyhood they will just buy us then invade us.

mnottertail -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 1:01:58 PM)
olena, In my estimation they've already bought us, they just haven't gotten around to collecting us yet. Ron

blacksword404 -> RE: Bad times for High technology and possible War (8/26/2009 2:03:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: olena You cannot collect from someone you killed. We owe China too much money for them to “go after us”. More liklyhood they will just buy us then invade us. You say that like it's an Ok option. [:D] I guess as soon as a baby leaves their mother they will be slapping a property of China sticker on it's ass.

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