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What does closure mean to you? - 8/28/2009 6:00:54 PM   
stella41b


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I have to admit that things haven't been all that easy over the past few months. It was only a few months ago when I staged a reading of my play 'Switch' at the Croydon munch, and we were about to open the stage performances at LAM (London Alternative Market) when an actress and an actor called me, two weeks before the opening to say that they no longer wanted to be part of the project and quit.

I responded by liquidating the theatre, cancelling all performances and withdrew. At the same time I was getting to know a domme here in London and I was afraid that I would be investing too much into the relationship. The fears were unfounded as a planned meeting shortly before my birthday, two months after our contact never came to be and she stopped answering e-mails and phone calls. I had given her more time because she was from the States and was experiencing visa problems and knowing she was also ill I was genuinely worried.

I stopped attending munches and events because I didn't want to look stupid after the play had failed to materialize. I have since recovered from my deep depression and thanks to friends and some people here I have been working on a new project which I'm hoping will bear fruit towards the end of the year.

However whilst setting up this new project I bought a new SIM for my cellphone and on the offchance called this domme, again receiving no response. I thought no more of it, and was about to let it go again when she called back on this new number. As soon as she heard my voice she slammed the phone down. This was perhaps her idea of closure.

Now at this point I have to confess that a new project, friendship or relationship almost invariably becomes a major motivational factor in my life.

Now please don't think that I have any problems getting out of bed or with getting things done, or that I don't appreciate the people who are already in my life, but it's that prospect of a new project or relationship with gives me additional energy, vitality, hope and good feeling.

I can't help this, this is who I am, my lifestyle to this point has been and is very transient, I chase dreams, my lifestyle is based on my creativity and artistic work and my desire to make this world a better place giving happiness to other people and myself.

It doesn't always work out, and I accept that, projects come to an end or fall apart, and relationships start, continue and end and hard as it may be at times I accept that too.

But then some relationships or even friendship don't end, because the person disappears or stops contacting you. When that happens something inside me dies, I start to crumble, and I often have to catch myself and become emotionally detached before I start to fall apart.

This is something I just don't understand. Part of this reason is because I'm not that much to look at, don't have much and what usually gets me into a relationship is my personality and character. I've been in some intense relationships and myself on a couple of occasions have walked away or ended things abruptly. What I've found happens is that those positive feelings turn very quickly to negative ones. I've been stalked once but what brought this home to me was the time when a former girlfriend had my rented apartment torched (I was out of the country at the time).

Since then I don't walk away, but always seek to end things face to face or if that isn't possible in writing. It's never easy to let go of a relationship, not even a bad one, and I figure that if I have invested my efforts, feelings and emotions into trying to being with someone, then they are worth the same level of efforts, feelings and emotions when we are separating. Even when I've left service type relationships it hasn't been easy, but for me closure is always worth it for one reason - friendship, even if that friendship is temporary and borne out of respect for the other person's feelings.

Personally i find it ridiculous that we seek, we form relationships, we build dynamics, enter into them, we control, we serve, submit, dominate, play, experience sub drop, dom drop, experience such intense emotions and feelings, place such an importance on aftercare, and yet some people feel closure is unimportant or not necessary.

I know that closure is important for other people too. I can still remember feeling a lump in my throat while reading LadyPact's moving account of her separation from clip some time back, one of her many memorable posts.

But what does closure mean to you, and just how important is it to you? How do you go about giving someone else closure? How does it affect you? Them?

And if it isn't that important to you, why isn't it?

And what about the times when you have felt the need for closure but haven't been given it? How did you cope? What did you do?

Your thoughts, experiences, views, comments observations all welcome.

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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/28/2009 6:52:00 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

But what does closure mean to you, and just how important is it to you? How do you go about giving someone else closure? How does it affect you? Them?

And if it isn't that important to you, why isn't it?

And what about the times when you have felt the need for closure but haven't been given it? How did you cope? What did you do?


I guess I've never really quite understood closure so I guess it's not really that important to me. For me if someone stops contacting me, stops calling, stops coming round, quits on me I just walk away and forget about them. I just wipe them clean from my mind. They no longer exist as far as I'm concerned. If they can't be bothered I can't be bothered.

I've never felt any kind of need for some kind of closure. Closure for me has always been pretty obvious and instant and just not worth another thought.

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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/28/2009 7:00:59 PM   
heartfeltsub


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How important and how long it takes (at least for me) depends on the longevity and the seriousness of the relationship and whether there is any chance of any kind of continued, communication with the other person at all. It took me years to get over my almost 23 year marriage partly because of its longevity and also partly because of the original intent of starting the relationship (ie that is was "supposed" to last the rest of my life). When the 4 year long relationship with my Ex-Dominant, it has taken only a couple of months to feel like i have achieved closure. That may be a slightly inaccurate term, the D/s side of our relationship is over, but he and i are still friends, so it is a different kind of closure. And the "intent" of the relationship was never supposed to be one of permanence.

heartfelt

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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/28/2009 7:21:46 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

But what does closure mean to you, and just how important is it to you? How do you go about giving someone else closure? How does it affect you? Them?

And if it isn't that important to you, why isn't it?

And what about the times when you have felt the need for closure but haven't been given it? How did you cope? What did you do?

Your thoughts, experiences, views, comments observations all welcome.


i prefer to have closure for many reasons. the first is always peace of mind and the knowledge that i have learned something from the experience. particularly once the emotional feelings have been processed and all the anger and disappointment has dissipated. understanding why and what i can do differently is an important element of my growth.

there are situations that simply end unexpectedly and in the past i would chew on various reasons why that occurred. i finally accepted that the answers would never come, at least in a manner that i would be satisfied in hearing. sometimes the other party doesn't wish to explain and silence is easier, or in my mind the more cowardly way to handle things. though it could be an attempt on their part to avoid additional conflict, heartache, or upset.

the longevity of the relationship isn't the barometer for me, but truthfully the level of importance and emotional attachment i have to the person. there are people i've known for years that simply haven't touched me as deeply as others i've been acquainted with far less. i believe talking is important, but sometimes things can be talked to death and the solution is the one no one wants to take.

my willingness to stay put and keep fighting is largely dependent on their desire to do the same. if our efforts have been exhausted and parting ways is the best thing to do. i make an earnest effort to do so with class and the cessation of hurt and blame for all parties involved. i can't change what brought us to that point, but i can make certain my departure doesn't exacerbate the pain.

porcelaine


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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/28/2009 7:33:35 PM   
DavanKael


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There exists no such concept in my lexicon. 
  Davan

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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/28/2009 8:11:18 PM   
peachgirl


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first off, let me just say, you are a jewel, Stella, and you shine - that is apparent even here in cyberspace.

to address your question, I definitely need closure.  without it, thoughts race round my brain and keep me awake at night.  but for me closure doesn't necessarily have to include a conversation.  it can be a point where I get fed up, or disgusted, or just have a switch turned off inside.  I've gotten to the point to where I'm not afraid to ask the questions, even if I don't like the answers.  whatever it takes.  but I have to have that feeling inside, because otherwise I expend too much energy on the subject, which ends up being unhealthy.


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I would be changing your life today.
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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/28/2009 8:17:27 PM   
Kana


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I don't know much about closure-once I let someone in my heart a part of me always loves them. It just changes form.
I can say this. The hardest thing for me to let go of in a relationship isn't just the caring, its the hope. I have held on to the hope far past the time I should have left, because it's hurts to let that go. I'm not a guy who can flick a switch and become friends, I need time, separation,  room to let the feelings sort out.
How long?
I never know as it always varies. But a day will come when I can think of her and the hurt has dwindled, and where there was once an ache now I can summon a smile. Once the pain is gone, then a new interaction can come be born anew.
Tears cleanse and laughter heals.
JMHO.

< Message edited by Kana -- 8/28/2009 8:31:35 PM >

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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/28/2009 8:33:07 PM   
catize


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My definition of closure is the ability to let go. Let go of the anger, the disappointment, the pain. 
Friends, lovers, people leave; sometimes in a mysterious disappearing act, sometimes with a big bang, and other times by mutual agreement.
I do what I need to do in order to let go. I don’t expect and seldom want to engage the other person in whatever process I use to emotionally free myself.
I have mentioned several times a 20 year friendship I had with a married couple.  They were my best friends through everything.  When that friendship blew up, I was devastated.  They were gone from my life in an instant.  Their betrayal was so enormous I had no desire to ever see or speak to them again.  I wrote letters to them that I never sent.  I wrote poems about my feelings.  I cried.  And when I was ready, I gathered all those letters and poems and a few other objects that represented what they had meant in my life; placed them in a box that I had chosen for the purpose and I burned them in a bonfire.  As I watched those symbols burn I forgave them and let all my pain and bitterness drift away with the smoke.
I can now smile at some of the good memories from that friendship. But I have no desire to ever include them in my life again; that would be moving backward. 

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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/28/2009 8:35:48 PM   
pyroaquatic


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Closure is a scar that was once a wound. The wound was bleeding but we needed to see the blood. A sure sign that we are still alive and feeling. Something. Anything.

Just when you think the stitches are secured they unravel again. Then, in a fit of indescribable emotion your hand motions to rip apart the flesh at the wound.

There. There is the end result of the thing that has wounded. It was still inside it all along. What was once something attached to your psyche and comfortable is now a foreign object embedded and driving a soul to lash against the psychopomp.

The now discovered object is cast off into the aether and the suffering ceases.

The wound closes and exists solely as a reminder:
Perhaps I will not do that again. It will prove beneficial to my survival.

Stella. You are a wonderful person (amongst the many luminous) and I had no idea that one was suffering so. I am glad that you have had some good friends: They provide the gag to bite down on, the forceps for removing foreign entities, and the rum to ease the pain.

Well, sometimes rum. If you are a Pirate, Stella.

Luck be with you,
~Pyroaquatic.



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You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/28/2009 8:41:03 PM   
Kana


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I should also mention that most of the pain I suffer in life is because I attempt to make transitory things permanent

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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/28/2009 8:46:05 PM   
impishlilhellcat


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But what does closure mean to you, and just how important is it to you? How do you go about giving someone else closure? How does it affect you? Them?

And if it isn't that important to you, why isn't it?

And what about the times when you have felt the need for closure but haven't been given it? How did you cope? What did you do?

Your thoughts, experiences, views, comments observations all welcome.

Closure to me really depends on the circumstances. Sometimes it's just hearing something said out loud or seeing it with my own eyes. Sometimes it's simply a matter of feeling/ emotion. Closure in my own personal opinion just happens to be the end. It means things are over and it is time to move onto something new. Hopefully I take something learned from the situation. Sometimes I take happy times and friendship and sometimes sadness. How important it is, is also based on the type of relationship and feelings for the other person. Sometimes it just happens naturally and sometimes I feel it lacking and feel like I have to force it within myself. It's more difficult when I feel as if for lack of a better word I feel I have been robbed of my closure. In those cases I feel that I have to search within me and heal myself before closure can be obtained. You can't make someone give you closure and you can't make someone understand what you are going through, but what you can do is live and learn and move on.



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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/28/2009 8:47:02 PM   
Acer49


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

I have to admit that things haven't been all that easy over the past few months. It was only a few months ago when I staged a reading of my play 'Switch' at the Croydon munch, and we were about to open the stage performances at LAM (London Alternative Market) when an actress and an actor called me, two weeks before the opening to say that they no longer wanted to be part of the project and quit.

I responded by liquidating the theatre, cancelling all performances and withdrew. At the same time I was getting to know a domme here in London and I was afraid that I would be investing too much into the relationship. The fears were unfounded as a planned meeting shortly before my birthday, two months after our contact never came to be and she stopped answering e-mails and phone calls. I had given her more time because she was from the States and was experiencing visa problems and knowing she was also ill I was genuinely worried.

I stopped attending munches and events because I didn't want to look stupid after the play had failed to materialize. I have since recovered from my deep depression and thanks to friends and some people here I have been working on a new project which I'm hoping will bear fruit towards the end of the year.

However whilst setting up this new project I bought a new SIM for my cellphone and on the offchance called this domme, again receiving no response. I thought no more of it, and was about to let it go again when she called back on this new number. As soon as she heard my voice she slammed the phone down. This was perhaps her idea of closure.

Now at this point I have to confess that a new project, friendship or relationship almost invariably becomes a major motivational factor in my life.

Now please don't think that I have any problems getting out of bed or with getting things done, or that I don't appreciate the people who are already in my life, but it's that prospect of a new project or relationship with gives me additional energy, vitality, hope and good feeling.

I can't help this, this is who I am, my lifestyle to this point has been and is very transient, I chase dreams, my lifestyle is based on my creativity and artistic work and my desire to make this world a better place giving happiness to other people and myself.

It doesn't always work out, and I accept that, projects come to an end or fall apart, and relationships start, continue and end and hard as it may be at times I accept that too.

But then some relationships or even friendship don't end, because the person disappears or stops contacting you. When that happens something inside me dies, I start to crumble, and I often have to catch myself and become emotionally detached before I start to fall apart.

This is something I just don't understand. Part of this reason is because I'm not that much to look at, don't have much and what usually gets me into a relationship is my personality and character. I've been in some intense relationships and myself on a couple of occasions have walked away or ended things abruptly. What I've found happens is that those positive feelings turn very quickly to negative ones. I've been stalked once but what brought this home to me was the time when a former girlfriend had my rented apartment torched (I was out of the country at the time).

Since then I don't walk away, but always seek to end things face to face or if that isn't possible in writing. It's never easy to let go of a relationship, not even a bad one, and I figure that if I have invested my efforts, feelings and emotions into trying to being with someone, then they are worth the same level of efforts, feelings and emotions when we are separating. Even when I've left service type relationships it hasn't been easy, but for me closure is always worth it for one reason - friendship, even if that friendship is temporary and borne out of respect for the other person's feelings.

Personally i find it ridiculous that we seek, we form relationships, we build dynamics, enter into them, we control, we serve, submit, dominate, play, experience sub drop, dom drop, experience such intense emotions and feelings, place such an importance on aftercare, and yet some people feel closure is unimportant or not necessary.

I know that closure is important for other people too. I can still remember feeling a lump in my throat while reading LadyPact's moving account of her separation from clip some time back, one of her many memorable posts.

But what does closure mean to you, and just how important is it to you? How do you go about giving someone else closure? How does it affect you? Them?

And if it isn't that important to you, why isn't it?

And what about the times when you have felt the need for closure but haven't been given it? How did you cope? What did you do?

Your thoughts, experiences, views, comments observations all welcome.



Closure means confrontation which is perceived as an uncomfortable situation; most people avoid situations they believe to be potentially uncomfortable

_____________________________

Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey Fierstein

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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/28/2009 8:54:22 PM   
marie2


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I'm a big "I need closure" type of person.  But I have never gotten it from the other person, it's more like I have to give it to myself.  For me the closure comes gradually as I analyze the situation and digest what has happened, even if that means having to admit to myself that I was played.  I can always see everything more accurately once I'm out of a situation, rather then when I am emotionally still in it and very close to it.   Therefore, I can't just flick a switch and have closure.  It has to evolve as my head clears.

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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/28/2009 9:35:42 PM   
sexisubi


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closure to me is when you dont need closure anymore... cause somewhere along the line you got it! 

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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/29/2009 7:16:17 AM   
Antheia


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quote:


And what about the times when you have felt the need for closure but haven't been given it? How did you cope? What did you do?


I once felt the need for closure when the relationship between my ex Master and I ended. We didn't even, to this day, talk about why or what happened. Things just stopped or slowed way down. Communication with e mails, phone calls, messenger. After 8 years together, well I felt that he had decided that things were not what he wanted.That is how much the dynamic changed. So without words we just went our separate ways.
I would of liked to talk about it before it ended but more than one thing , with both of us, stopped that from happening.
It has been a year or so since the end of the relationship and I realized I could have my own closure and be happy with that. So slowly I have deleted old e mails, got rid of old conversations on messenger and soon pictures and snail mail letters will be put in a box and stored in a closet (because parts of this relationship will always be with me). My life continues. :)
A.

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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/29/2009 9:30:32 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexisubi

closure to me is when you dont need closure anymore... cause somewhere along the line you got it! 


This is similar to what I was thinking when I began reading this thread.

I am not exactly a seasoned vet of romantic type relationships. I've had only a few. I have always been so busy with mothering and working, animals and hobbies, I've not ever had a big social circle or lots of close friends. Very few dramatic relationship endings. Most that have ended have been a case of drifting apart, or evolution into something different.

I have to admit, even though I refuse to get close to people online now, that wasn't always the case. Once upon a time I got far too close to a woman. I allowed myself to get far too emotionally attached. When she disappeared for no reason at all, after all we had shared, I was at first worried, then angry, then, just deeply saddened. I never understood why a person would do such a thing. It was cruel and just so uncaring. I would have liked the closure of knowing the truth, but it was denied me.

I think that giving it a different perspective, allowing it to just "be" whatever it is, and let it go.

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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/29/2009 9:41:15 AM   
RavenMuse


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First things first.... regarding "I stopped attending munches and events because I didn't want to look stupid after the play had failed to materialize.".... *SWIPE* silly girl! Everyone with half a brain understands what it is like when other people let you down. Far from look stupid, I am simply glad I had the opportunity to see your creation before other peoples actions cut its legs out from under it and you... it was worth seeing! Now does that sound like someone who thinks the circumstances make you look stupid?

As for closure. The only person who can give you closure is yourself. When something important to Us ends the tendency is to hold onto a part of it emotionaly, it encroaches on our focus and eats into our available energy.... Time spent mourning the past and picturing what might have been if only..... is time not spent on moving forward and building something new and better. Once We let go of the past and it is simply a memory, then We have our closure and can move on.


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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/29/2009 9:45:32 AM   
Prinsexx


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Closure to me means that there is no unfinished business...it doesn't necessarily mean that it is the end of a relationship. This is my view as |I have said here more than once that relationships NEVER end they just change form.  Even after actual death our relationship continues in inner form.
But closure to unfinished business is extremely important to me.
I believe that relationship go through phases:
approach
initiation
consolidation
co-creativity
disintegration
closure....
to me closure is necessary in order to be able to move forward and move on.
There have been many ways I have observed this summer that I have not received closure.
These have been: unanswered mails, non-returned texts, rude mail from others who have never met me (implying a projection, or unfinished business), promises unfulfilled, silences, ommission of information, lies.
Each night before I go to sleep I check wth memebrs of my family and close friends. If they are at a distance I will text. usually it is to discuss any left over business, to disclose howI feel, to say I will get back to them tomorrow and so on. I 'close' on a personal note sometimes at the expense of paperwork and admin. Admin of course is a form of closure but there are only 24 hours in a day. And personal closure is most important to me.
I reckon that if I am sensitised to unfinished business than so would the other person be.
An ex husband vanilla... left me cliff-hanging....suddenly dying from a heart attack meant that he never had the chance to finish business...say what he needed to say, or rather allow me to say what I felt he needed to say...to me or the children. Closure in the lifestyle? As important as closure in my family. This ties into another thread which asked of inspiration. . Doms I have known? Unfinshed business has sometimes been partially cleared with admissions suggesting that i was an awaesome slave...it is nice to know, it would have been nice to know.
Closure cretes peacre. Closure creates confodence. Closure is an amazing tool of communication.
When we pass it is too late. And life sadly is very very short.



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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/29/2009 10:02:14 AM   
velvetears


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i think closure is important for the person being let go of because the person letting go probably has gone through a "closure" or they probably wouldn't be letting go.  When you are in a relationship and you are content with things as they are but the other person isn't and decides to end things it can be difficult to process what happened and let go of the emotions that it generates.  i was in both positions.  When i was the discontent one i had many months to come to my own private closure and while my partner felt a change or that the relationship needed work he was by and large content and happy.  i had loved him once and we practically grew up together and spent many years together, we lived together, and i wanted to part ways as compassionately as possible, and stay friends.  There's a saying i think of then i look back on those days - Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.   When i was the one let go i had to work very hard to keep my equilibrium, and i didn't always succeed.  i never really got the closure i wanted which would have just been a better understanding of what happened, and i never will.  We have stayed friends, and it't been about 6 years now, and i am finally feeling the detachment i need.  Only twinges now.  i am very grateful for that, but it has made me very hesitant to ever want to feel that close to anyone ever again. maybe had i had closure i wouldn't be so insecure, i don't really know.  

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RE: What does closure mean to you? - 8/29/2009 10:22:15 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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Good morning, darling!

quote:

But what does closure mean to you, and just how important is it to you?
To me, closure is that point were I become able to move beyond a situation. I consider it an internal process, rather than something that is externally oriented.

quote:

How do you go about giving someone else closure?

It always seems to me that the best thing I can to do help someone else effect closure is to be forthright about where I am at and where our interaction is at. I am not one to hide and disappear -- if I don't respond to something from someone I've been communicating with, it -isn't- my way of blowing someone off... usually, it's just because I don't have anything that I see as relevant to contribute to a certain communication, or I'm busy -- popping me a note will typically re-ignite the conversation from different ends. If I don't want to hear from someone again, I will -say-, straight out, that I don't want to communicate any longer... no guessing, no wondering.

On the other hand, I'm completely comfortable with other people just fading away if that's their preferred way of dealing with the ending of something. It isn't my way, but I don't expect others to deal with things the way that I do, so if they feel that just disappearing suddenly, or fading away over time without saying why or how is what works to allow them to move on with grace, then more power to them. Of course, if the feeling of the need to end things is mutual, then when I notice them pulling away, they're liable to get the above straight-forward communication that says "if this is ending, let's just make a clean break now."

quote:

How does it affect you? Them?

Really, once I get to the point where a situation ends, I'm very much the INTJ -- as a natural introvert, I just move on with my life. I've always considered 'closure' on my end to be an internal process, so if someone fades into the distance, I tend not to cling and just move on to the other things going on in my life. As far as how it affects the other person -- well, if we were communicating, we'd still be relating, and closure wouldn't be an issue, but since we're not, and I'm not a mind-reader, I guess that only the other person will know how our ending is impacting them.

quote:

And if it isn't that important to you, why isn't it?

Again, I think I see 'closure' as an internal process that -I- need for myself to move on... but I also consider it, at least for me, a "bootstraps" thing... you know... "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get on with it". I don't expect anything from anyone else in order to get 'closure'... I make 'closure' for myself. Sometimes, I think I forget that other people have a different mindset, where they expect certain things from the other party in order to be able to close that part of their lives... so it isn't that it's not important to me, but that it just isn't part of the way that I process things to think about an -external- process to closure.

quote:

And what about the times when you have felt the need for closure but haven't been given it? How did you cope? What did you do?


As I've said earlier, I've always sort of seen 'closure' as an internal process, so I've never -had- a time when I felt the need for closure and didn't get there. To me, closure isn't something someone else -gives- me... it is a framework that I create for myself, on which a new future, re-structured to my new existence, is built -- it is a gift that I give myself for having taken the chance at a relationship, project, or idea... regardless of how that project turned out... once I've moved on to something else.

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 8/29/2009 10:28:07 AM >


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to stella41b)
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