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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/26/2006 8:17:25 AM

xxblushesxx

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
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I signed a contract at the beginning of my visit here...

My fav rule is; "Sub will respect the Dom, even when he does not deserve it"

*lol*

Last night he couldn't find his remote and asked where his control went....

Didn't know what to say....

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/26/2006 9:07:26 AM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

I signed a contract at the beginning of my visit here...

My fav rule is; "Sub will respect the Dom, even when he does not deserve it"

*lol*

Last night he couldn't find his remote and asked where his control went....

Didn't know what to say....

Cleaning the coffee off of my screen yet again!!!!!!!!!!! I really need to stop having morning coffee on this forum...

LMAO..... what could you say?

There's something for the BDSM joke books.

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/26/2006 9:27:46 AM

sophia37

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Joined: 2/7/2006
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Lest we all wonder about the woman who the contract was made for, it's plain she didnt sign it. Not only did she not sign it, she kept it as evidence in order to whip it out later at just the right moment!

That too may be something to consider when writing you-will-do-this-or-that contracts for someone. There's always the chance it'll end up where you never thought it might go!

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/26/2006 9:51:22 AM

Cloudz

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Speaking strictly about the contract and it's contents...I personally do not find it so over the top. For those of us who are or have been involved in 24/7 are the requests he made really so amazing? Perhaps to write it out as he had is not somehting I would do, and some of his requests would not appeal to me, but there are things that I would have included that he did not.

I tend to be tolerant of most, I see a lot of stone casting...I do not wish to be counted among those.

Just my thoughts

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~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/26/2006 9:53:22 AM

Cloudz

Posts: 836
Joined: 9/13/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

I signed a contract at the beginning of my visit here...

My fav rule is; "Sub will respect the Dom, even when he does not deserve it"

*lol*

Last night he couldn't find his remote and asked where his control went....

Didn't know what to say....

ROFLMAO....Oh,I wish I could say I have never uttered a statement equally foolish. I hope, being a credit to him...that you paused and said "Sir, your REMOTE control for the telly is..."

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"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/26/2006 10:11:16 AM

litaTshai

Posts: 31
Joined: 1/19/2004
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one offers greetings to the Masters, Mistresses and slaves here.

one posts with Mistress's permission and thanks All for the opportunity.

as a legal secretary, i have followed this thread with interest.

someone stated they thought perhaps it was a good thing to have some kind of consent to certain things in writing.

actually, such is futile

there are no courts anywhere that would recognize dom/cub contracts because even with consent, certan acts are illegal and a court will not recognize a contract that has anything in it that is illegal.

now one of the nlawyers i work for has said that folks can sign a contract that is binding between them, but that a court will not recognize.

so, if, say, a Dom/sub couple signed such a contract, permitting whipping, cagings, or whatever, and later one of the parties leveled charges of abuse, the fact that that party signed a paper consenting to such wouldn't even be condsidered. one cannot legally consent to an illegal act.

now if a couple wishes to create a set of rules for their relationship, that is well and good. but to call it a "contract" and require signatures is an attempt to make it appear to be a legally valid document. and not only is it not, but it is remotely possible that in some places charges might be leveled that someone was falsifying legal documents. stranger things have happened.

respectfully,

lita {Tshai}

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/26/2006 10:42:08 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx
Last night he couldn't find his remote and asked where his control went....

Didn't know what to say....

You? Not knowing what to say? Thats a first

Hope your having a great time petal

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And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/26/2006 10:46:51 AM

angelic

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: litaTshai

one offers greetings to the Masters, Mistresses and slaves here.

one posts with Mistress's permission and thanks All for the opportunity.

as a legal secretary, i have followed this thread with interest.

someone stated they thought perhaps it was a good thing to have some kind of consent to certain things in writing.

actually, such is futile

there are no courts anywhere that would recognize dom/cub contracts because even with consent, certan acts are illegal and a court will not recognize a contract that has anything in it that is illegal.

now one of the nlawyers i work for has said that folks can sign a contract that is binding between them, but that a court will not recognize.

so, if, say, a Dom/sub couple signed such a contract, permitting whipping, cagings, or whatever, and later one of the parties leveled charges of abuse, the fact that that party signed a paper consenting to such wouldn't even be condsidered. one cannot legally consent to an illegal act.

now if a couple wishes to create a set of rules for their relationship, that is well and good. but to call it a "contract" and require signatures is an attempt to make it appear to be a legally valid document. and not only is it not, but it is remotely possible that in some places charges might be leveled that someone was falsifying legal documents. stranger things have happened.

respectfully,

lita {Tshai}

hi lita... i too am in the legal field and was under the same thinking. However, very recently (i'll try to find the thread although LA is much better at it), where such a contract DID hold up in court. The Judge sided with the Master/Dom BECAUSE of the contract. She signed it, the Judge held her to it.

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/26/2006 10:46:52 AM

ScorpGirl444

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Joined: 1/20/2006
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If the kidnapping means keeping her "hostage" in the house that would make sense.

Though, there is no rule about that in his contract. It doesn't say anything about him being able to kidnap her at all.

Maybe it's on a page we don't see...

~Scorp~

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/26/2006 10:48:06 AM

Sunshine119

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Joined: 8/8/2005
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Wow! Am i the crazy one here? I didn't think this contract asks for much more than most of us do on a daily basis. The credit for good days was a bonus. Hey! Nobody told me I'd get credit for good days! The rules are the rules. If we choose to live under them (whether in writing, signed or not), then it is OUR choice. Even though she didn't sign the paper, it sounds like, in some capacity, she agreed to live by them. Now, since I haven't been following the story, does anyone know how long she lived under these rules? Did she initially agree to them in order to get married?

Now, all of this does not take into account the fact that he may be a slime anyway because of the current charges pending against him regarding the downloading of the underage porn.

If you take that out of the equation, how many of us would be chastising him so?

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/26/2006 11:01:10 AM

angelic

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Personally the contract in and of itself was fairly mild. i wrote AND signed one that made this one look vanilla. That is why i was wondering where the kidnapping comes in. The articles i've read so far only direct the readers to the contract.

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/26/2006 11:31:37 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

Wow! Am i the crazy one here? I didn't think this contract asks for much more than most of us do on a daily basis. The credit for good days was a bonus. Hey! Nobody told me I'd get credit for good days! The rules are the rules. If we choose to live under them (whether in writing, signed or not), then it is OUR choice. Even though she didn't sign the paper, it sounds like, in some capacity, she agreed to live by them. Now, since I haven't been following the story, does anyone know how long she lived under these rules? Did she initially agree to them in order to get married?

Now, all of this does not take into account the fact that he may be a slime anyway because of the current charges pending against him regarding the downloading of the underage porn.

If you take that out of the equation, how many of us would be chastising him so?

Um....none?

:)

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/26/2006 4:40:43 PM

MsIncognito

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It's pretty obvious no one read the whole "contract" because in the last paragraph of the contract it states "This is not a contract, it is a description of rules for you." Personally, I don't see anything wrong with rules or even writing them down and having your consenting partner sign and/or initial them as an outward sign of their consent. Whether or not it's legal is irrelevant - it's simply another way of garnering consent. You know....SSC, blah, blah, blah.

While these rules wouldn't be my cuppa I don't think there's anything wrong with either requesting (as a Dom/me) that your sub consent to and follow such rules nor do I think there is anything wrong with consenting (as a sub) to such rules. From what I can see he was trying to force a D/s relationship with a partner who wasn't consenting. THAT's the problem with this whole thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: litaTshai
now if a couple wishes to create a set of rules for their relationship, that is well and good. but to call it a "contract" and require signatures is an attempt to make it appear to be a legally valid document. and not only is it not, but it is remotely possible that in some places charges might be leveled that someone was falsifying legal documents. stranger things have happened.

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 2/26/2006 4:41:53 PM >

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/26/2006 4:48:29 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

It's pretty obvious no one read the whole "contract" because in the last paragraph of the contract it states "This is not a contract, it is a description of rules for you." Personally, I don't see anything wrong with rules or even writing them down and having your consenting partner sign and/or initial them as an outward sign of their consent. Whether or not it's legal is irrelevant - it's simply another way of garnering consent. You know....SSC, blah, blah, blah.

While these rules wouldn't be my cuppa I don't think there's anything wrong with either requesting (as a Dom/me) that your sub consent to and follow such rules nor do I think there is anything wrong with consenting (as a sub) to such rules. From what I can see he was trying to force a D/s relationship with a partner who wasn't consenting. THAT's the problem with this whole thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: litaTshai
now if a couple wishes to create a set of rules for their relationship, that is well and good. but to call it a "contract" and require signatures is an attempt to make it appear to be a legally valid document. and not only is it not, but it is remotely possible that in some places charges might be leveled that someone was falsifying legal documents. stranger things have happened.

Actually i read it, i just didn't feel like posting on it. The inconsistancy is that the TITLE says Contract and at the END he says "This is not a contract." Go figure. Hard to have credibility when you can't decide what your own document is.

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/27/2006 1:15:05 AM

MrDiscipline44

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I agree with Ms Incognito. The document had some good merits to it as far as a "contract" for Ms/ or D/s. He just tryed to apply the wrong dynamic to the wrong relationship.

I also don't see it as a bad rough draft for such a relationship as a D/s, M/s. It needs to have the rough edges smoothed out but all in all, it's interesting.

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/27/2006 1:32:22 AM

lockedhusband2

Posts: 21
Joined: 1/4/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

quote:

ORIGINAL: litaTshai

one offers greetings to the Masters, Mistresses and slaves here.

one posts with Mistress's permission and thanks All for the opportunity.

as a legal secretary, i have followed this thread with interest.

someone stated they thought perhaps it was a good thing to have some kind of consent to certain things in writing.

actually, such is futile

there are no courts anywhere that would recognize dom/cub contracts because even with consent, certan acts are illegal and a court will not recognize a contract that has anything in it that is illegal.

now one of the nlawyers i work for has said that folks can sign a contract that is binding between them, but that a court will not recognize.

so, if, say, a Dom/sub couple signed such a contract, permitting whipping, cagings, or whatever, and later one of the parties leveled charges of abuse, the fact that that party signed a paper consenting to such wouldn't even be condsidered. one cannot legally consent to an illegal act.

now if a couple wishes to create a set of rules for their relationship, that is well and good. but to call it a "contract" and require signatures is an attempt to make it appear to be a legally valid document. and not only is it not, but it is remotely possible that in some places charges might be leveled that someone was falsifying legal documents. stranger things have happened.

respectfully,

lita {Tshai}

hi lita... i too am in the legal field and was under the same thinking. However, very recently (i'll try to find the thread although LA is much better at it), where such a contract DID hold up in court. The Judge sided with the Master/Dom BECAUSE of the contract. She signed it, the Judge held her to it.

I too forget where this thread is. She wasn't held to the contract (the contract was not a binding agreement) but the contract was used to put the actions of the two parties in context.

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/27/2006 4:45:07 AM

Lashra

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Ok this is one of the stupidest things I've seen in awhile. No its not consensual he's probably one of those guys who believe women don't have rights nor minds once they say *I do*. He probably thinks a wife is property of her husband and ceases to be a human being in her own right.

Child pornography? For crying out loud if he's gulity they need to gas this worthless piece of crap.

Lashra

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/27/2006 6:21:37 AM

Cloudz

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Joined: 9/13/2005
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I tried...really I did not to comment...but please people...what the hell is up with all this stone casting??? For those of us who actually DO what some TALK about here...who is the first to volunteer to post His/Her list of rules, guidelines, commands, demands, etc on here for everyone to take pot shots at?

Are we really so bored that we need to find bandwagons to jump on? I find these boards to be some of the most useful, informative information currently avalible. So much so that I have instructed a potenital boy to begin reading them daily.

Can we not simply live and let live? Your kink may not be mine, but I will defend mine without spitting on yours. Let's take a break from the book and contract flaming and get on with the business of living.

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Enjoy the Journey,
~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/27/2006 6:42:29 AM

MsIncognito

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For me, he lost credibility at the charges of child pornography. Inconsistency in a written "contract" pales in comparison, but that's just me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
Hard to have credibility when you can't decide what your own document is.

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 2/27/2006 6:43:22 AM >

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RE: dom/sub written contracts - 2/27/2006 6:52:52 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

For me, he lost credibility at the charges of child pornography. Inconsistency in a written "contract" pales in comparison, but that's just me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
Hard to have credibility when you can't decide what your own document is.

Well of course, but i thought we were talking about the contract.

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Post #: 40