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TPE - 8/30/2009 10:37:34 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline 		A Master desires a sub/slave for a TPE, A slave/sub presents themselves and says they wish to be considered, but they have ten hard limits. Can they be considered, why or why not? For the sake of the discussion, total means absolute. this is a hypothetical situation, I am not seeking or involved in this type of relationship

< Message edited by Acer49 -- 8/30/2009 11:05:49 PM >

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RE: TPE - 8/30/2009 10:40:33 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Yes they can.  It would be up to the dom, it is his perogative or not to grant them.  

i am probably not the best person to be answering this anyway as i don't really have much belief in TPE. 


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RE: TPE - 8/30/2009 10:41:32 PM   
wandersalone


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Status: offline 		Well if both of you plan to stick to your desire for tpe and do not wish to consider someone who has hard limits then I can't see how it would succeed. 

It would be interesting to ask the person why they wish to be considered by you and what tpe means to them.  Are their hard limits things that you would want to incorporate into a d/s relationship?

At the end of the day only the two of you can make the call on whether pursuing something with each other is worth letting go of some of your wants/needs.


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RE: TPE - 8/30/2009 10:49:30 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		It depends on the limits and whether the D-type considers them a problem or not (based on the reasons they are limits).

It's still a bit of a gray area, though. Semantically, is the s-type is refusing surrender of something that could conceivably be surrendered, then I'm not sure TPE is the right acronym/description.


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RE: TPE - 8/30/2009 10:51:15 PM   
Ladynslave


Posts: 376
Joined: 7/30/2009
Status: offline 		If the hard limits are things that the dom loves as a part of regular play, then no.  There is no point to consideration because it would leave one party unsatisfied.  If the hard limits are the same as the dom's hard limits or part of things he only tolerates, then yes.  Both will be getting what they need.

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RE: TPE - 8/30/2009 10:52:39 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Do I expect or want to do any of those ten hard limits?

If So then, No She isn't.

But If I don't wanna do those 10 hard limits then who cares?

andi and caryn do not want to be

  1. Skull fucked
  2. Whored out for Money
  3. Fuck Animals
  4. Fuck Minors
  5. Be Shit on
  6. Be Bled out
  7. Used as Lawn Dart Targets
  8. Tied up and held underwater and expected to escape unassisted
  9. Stand in a Childrens pool while Amputees throw noodles at her
  10. Punched in the face with Brass knuckles

I also have no desire to do the above 10 things.

Do they matter as limits?

Not to me I have no desire to ever do them.

And I don;t care for the term Total Power Exchange because they always have the Power to simply walk away. I like Total Authority Exchange because they give me total Authority over them while admitting that they always have the legal right to walk away.

Food for Thought.

Steel

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RE: TPE - 8/30/2009 10:54:38 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49

A Master desires a sub/slave for a TPE, A slave/sub presents themselves and says they wish to be considered, but they have ten hard limits. Can they be considered, why or why not? For the sake of the discussion, total means absolute


Even if the submissive/slave has no limits, if there are 10 things the dominant/master has no interest in, is that TPE?  After all, he/she would be obeyed if he/she chose to exercise their power for those 10 things, but they don’t.  Does that negate the ‘total’ part? 
I, too, have difficulty accepting the realities of TPE. 


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RE: TPE - 8/30/2009 11:29:17 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		Reality already dictates that being human we inherit far more than 10 limits. In line with reality, if I tell my slave to "fly" she will not be able to whether there are negotiated limits or not. However, a good slave once said, "with a running start, I can give you 2 seconds of flight".

There are no limits in TPE. Anything otherwise is semantic word games. As Master I am in control as if I own my slave in the same way I own any property. My car does not negotiate limits with me when I ask it to turn left or stop, neither should my slave. My car has real life limitations like my slave. If I abuse it or push it past its' limits, it will break. However, I am smart and responsible enough not to abuse my property, living or otherwise. My car can't fly for more than a few seconds either by the way.

If "limits" are a concern to the point you feel you must mention or negotiate for them you are either not suited for TPE or poorly paired with someone you don't trust. Either way, "limits" should be a clue to both parties that something is amiss.


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RE: TPE - 8/30/2009 11:38:39 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		See RS I get where you are coming but I still have to disagree.

You and I feel the same way about the eventual outcome, the method up to the point is different.

I believe Life Preservation is important.

A Hard Limit of "No Murder" seems somewhat healthy to me.

I also believe that Moral Limits are also Important

The No Children & No Animals Limit are also ones that seem healthy.

In the end I have no desire to have them do those things. And everything that I do what them to do they may not like but will not deny me.

I again dont see the problem in calling this a TPE or TAE considering I don't want what they don't want to give.

In the end I get everything I want without question and without denial.

So what's the issue?

Steel

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RE: TPE - 8/30/2009 11:39:13 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Do I expect or want to do any of those ten hard limits?

If So then, No She isn't.

But If I don't wanna do those 10 hard limits then who cares?

andi and caryn do not want to be

  1. Skull fucked
  2. Whored out for Money
  3. Fuck Animals
  4. Fuck Minors
  5. Be Shit on
  6. Be Bled out
  7. Used as Lawn Dart Targets
  8. Tied up and held underwater and expected to escape unassisted
  9. Stand in a Childrens pool while Amputees throw noodles at her
  10. Punched in the face with Brass knuckles

I also have no desire to do the above 10 things.

Do they matter as limits?

Not to me I have no desire to ever do them.

And I don;t care for the term Total Power Exchange because they always have the Power to simply walk away. I like Total Authority Exchange because they give me total Authority over them while admitting that they always have the legal right to walk away.

Food for Thought.

Steel



Legal issues aside. If you, as the Dom desired her to whore herself out, would, because you are in a TPE, have that right to demand this?

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RE: TPE - 8/30/2009 11:41:36 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Yes they can.  It would be up to the dom, it is his perogative or not to grant them.  

i am probably not the best person to be answering this anyway as i don't really have much belief in TPE. 



If the sub had a hard limit of no blindfolds, because of her being in a TPE, is the Dom within his right to use the blindfold?

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RE: TPE - 8/30/2009 11:46:09 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wandersalone

Well if both of you plan to stick to your desire for tpe and do not wish to consider someone who has hard limits then I can't see how it would succeed. 

It would be interesting to ask the person why they wish to be considered by you and what tpe means to them.  Are their hard limits things that you would want to incorporate into a d/s relationship?

At the end of the day only the two of you can make the call on whether pursuing something with each other is worth letting go of some of your wants/needs.



If you allow limits in a TPE relationship, you have a basic relationship what is TPE about it?

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Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
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RE: TPE - 8/30/2009 11:48:06 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

It depends on the limits and whether the D-type considers them a problem or not (based on the reasons they are limits).

It's still a bit of a gray area, though. Semantically, is the s-type is refusing surrender of something that could conceivably be surrendered, then I'm not sure TPE is the right acronym/description.



Are you saying certain limits are allowed in a TPE relationship and certain ones aren't?

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RE: TPE - 8/30/2009 11:49:00 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49
Legal issues aside. If you, as the Dom desired her to whore herself out, would, because you are in a TPE, have that right to demand this?


Hard to Answer this question.

I don't see anything Morally wrong with Prostitution I see it as Honest Pay for something in high desire.

I also don't like other cats in my sand box so there is a conflict of interest here.

As for having the right to Demand, I think you have this ideal backward.

They have given me the capasity to expect it of them by surrendering comeplete control to me. Should I expect it of them and they choose not to do it then one could state that there was no TPE in place.

Again this is an Argument in semantics as far as I am concerned because where as I don't see anything wrong with the aspect of money for sex I would not want my girls doing it. I do know that both of my girls would if required it of them but they also know I would have a damn good reason as to why I would want such a thing. They also know that I would only allow it in such a situation that they were as safe as is possible in that capasity.

Steel

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RE: TPE - 8/30/2009 11:51:44 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ladynslave

If the hard limits are things that the dom loves as a part of regular play, then no.  There is no point to consideration because it would leave one party unsatisfied.  If the hard limits are the same as the dom's hard limits or part of things he only tolerates, then yes.  Both will be getting what they need.


So if I am understanding you correctly, It is your opinion that if the sub/slave has hard limits that a Dom does not wish to honor, they can not be in a TPE relationship?

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Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
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RE: TPE - 8/31/2009 12:07:39 AM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49
Legal issues aside. If you, as the Dom desired her to whore herself out, would, because you are in a TPE, have that right to demand this?


Hard to Answer this question.

I don't see anything Morally wrong with Prostitution I see it as Honest Pay for something in high desire.

I also don't like other cats in my sand box so there is a conflict of interest here.

As for having the right to Demand, I think you have this ideal backward.

They have given me the capasity to expect it of them by surrendering comeplete control to me. Should I expect it of them and they choose not to do it then one could state that there was no TPE in place.

Again this is an Argument in semantics as far as I am concerned because where as I don't see anything wrong with the aspect of money for sex I would not want my girls doing it. I do know that both of my girls would if required it of them but they also know I would have a damn good reason as to why I would want such a thing. They also know that I would only allow it in such a situation that they were as safe as is possible in that capasity.

Steel


Which, if I am understanding you correctly if a sub/slave has limits that I Dom does not wish to honor, then that sub/slave could not be in a TPE relationship



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Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
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RE: TPE - 8/31/2009 12:10:00 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Everyone has hard limits, things that will harm them and they cannot allow and still respect themselves and the other person. If the two people agree on these things, they are compatible. If one lives for breathplay and the other is asthmatic, then they aren't compatible.

If instead of saying ten hard limits, you used the words ten medical conditions, would that change how you viewed the subject?

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RE: TPE - 8/31/2009 12:17:01 AM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49

A Master desires a sub/slave for a TPE, A slave/sub presents themselves and says they wish to be considered, but they have ten hard limits. Can they be considered, why or why not? For the sake of the discussion, total means absolute


Even if the submissive/slave has no limits, if there are 10 things the dominant/master has no interest in, is that TPE?  After all, he/she would be obeyed if he/she chose to exercise their power for those 10 things, but they don’t.  Does that negate the ‘total’ part? 
I, too, have difficulty accepting the realities of TPE. 



If you came to me and said here are my 10 things and if I had no desire to breach those 10 things then, in my opinion, you could call yourself a no limit slave/sub and yes, I would say you could be considered as a canidate for a TPE relationship

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Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
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RE: TPE - 8/31/2009 12:32:35 AM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
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quote:

Everyone has hard limits, things that will harm them and they cannot allow and still respect themselves and the other person. If the two people agree on these things, they are compatible. If one lives for breathplay and the other is asthmatic, then they aren't compatible.

This.
Compatibility is always important, but it is even more important in a TPE relationship, where the slave's limits are determined by the Master. As an example- scat, minors, and animals are hard limits for me. Why would I enter a TPE with someone who wanted one or more of those things? The answer is, I wouldn't. I would choose a Master whose hard limits/ morals matched my own. Also, I have to say that relationships aren't always TPE from the get-go. Actually, I think that is fairly rare. D/s sometimes turns to M/s and then to TPE over time, as trust is built and tested withing a relationship (by tested, I mean by external factors), and limits fall away.

BTW, I'm not in a TPE relationship, so this is simply my opinion on something I have observed with friends, but not participated in. Please take it for what value you think it has.


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RE: TPE - 8/31/2009 1:06:25 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt
quote:

Everyone has hard limits, things that will harm them ...

Why would I enter a TPE with someone who wanted one or more of those things? The answer is, I wouldn't.

I believe the saying in consensual slavery goes, "Picking your Owner will be the last choice you make".

Admittedly, you will probably “choose” to continue wiping your ass after you shit and making thousands of other “choices” but you get the spirit of it.

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