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RE: When clients think they're friends...really? - 9/2/2009 12:27:46 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
In a "devastating" turn the client blogs about being "abandoned" by MsKitty on blogspot and FL. I couldn't let this stand and posted a comment in an attempt to set the record straight.

Here's my question Ladies...how the fuck do you get rid of these needy types who border on stalker without compromising yourselves?

Do I do anything else? Did I already do too much?

Yes, you did too much. If your mistress is done with this person, why do you - who are obedient to your mistress - continue the farce?
Let your mistress handle this. She may ignore him, or she may inform the authorities or the guys in the white coats about this obsessive compulsory stalker. It is none of your business.

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RE: When clients think they're friends...really? - 9/4/2009 8:10:49 AM

curiousheart

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I recently explored the Pro-Domme option, and didn't follow through because it wasn't for me, but I definately got into a pretty frenzied mindset. While doing my research, there seemed to be a theme of Pro-Dommes complaining about their submissives, and on the surface I can understand, who needs stalkers and whingers and timewasters, all very fair.

However, do they not realise the hypocracy? They are selling a drug, then complaining that the client gets slightly addicted. They are the ones creating a false sense of reality most of the time, then complaining about the effects of it later on. The BDSM dynamic is not exactly custom built to be able to make logical, sensible decisions the second after time is up. You play with people's emotions and make a living of creating that intense interaction, it's not like you're selling cupcakes.

Know what you are selling, and its effects, otherwise don't take the money. BTW, I am not condoning dangerous behaviour at all, I just think it's a bit rich to be so high and mighty. I don't know of any dentists that have stalkers, so maybe Pro-Dommes are doing something wrong? Not enough sunny glasses to wear?

< Message edited by curiousheart -- 9/4/2009 8:28:49 AM >

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RE: When clients think they're friends...really? - 9/4/2009 9:43:07 AM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: curiousheart

I recently explored the Pro-Domme option, and didn't follow through because it wasn't for me, but I definately got into a pretty frenzied mindset. While doing my research, there seemed to be a theme of Pro-Dommes complaining about their submissives, and on the surface I can understand, who needs stalkers and whingers and timewasters, all very fair.

However, do they not realise the hypocracy? They are selling a drug, then complaining that the client gets slightly addicted. They are the ones creating a false sense of reality most of the time, then complaining about the effects of it later on. The BDSM dynamic is not exactly custom built to be able to make logical, sensible decisions the second after time is up. You play with people's emotions and make a living of creating that intense interaction, it's not like you're selling cupcakes.

Know what you are selling, and its effects, otherwise don't take the money. BTW, I am not condoning dangerous behaviour at all, I just think it's a bit rich to be so high and mighty. I don't know of any dentists that have stalkers, so maybe Pro-Dommes are doing something wrong? Not enough sunny glasses to wear?

Part of the problem here is the interchanging of terms. This is one of the things that leads directly to the issue for the OP.

There is a Grand Canyon sized difference between a client who is seeing a professional dominant than that Dominant's personal submissive. For example, even though creepy stalker guy was getting the sessions that he paid for, in no way could he ever have the actual dynamic that boijen and Ms Kitty have. Their dynamic doesn't end when time is up or the money runs out. A paying client can't compete with that because he's no where near as important to Ms Kitty as boijen is in her REAL LIFE. It's the client that perpetuates the illusion, rather than the other way around.

As Ms Kitty's s type, boijen is almost automatically the target of envy of some types of clients. This happens to those of us who are just lifestyle types, too. My own sub has experienced some of it for himself. There have been times that jealousy has spurred negative exchanges from other subs because they don't have the comprehension of why I wouldn't have them in My service rather than My boy. Those who are paying for play can get downright nasty about it. All it does is to help shatter the illusion that they have built in their own mind, which was never reality based to begin with.

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RE: When clients think they're friends...really? - 9/4/2009 11:58:02 AM

BoiJen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: curiousheart

I recently explored the Pro-Domme option, and didn't follow through because it wasn't for me, but I definately got into a pretty frenzied mindset. While doing my research, there seemed to be a theme of Pro-Dommes complaining about their submissives, and on the surface I can understand, who needs stalkers and whingers and timewasters, all very fair.

However, do they not realise the hypocracy? They are selling a drug, then complaining that the client gets slightly addicted. They are the ones creating a false sense of reality most of the time, then complaining about the effects of it later on. The BDSM dynamic is not exactly custom built to be able to make logical, sensible decisions the second after time is up. You play with people's emotions and make a living of creating that intense interaction, it's not like you're selling cupcakes.

Know what you are selling, and its effects, otherwise don't take the money. BTW, I am not condoning dangerous behaviour at all, I just think it's a bit rich to be so high and mighty. I don't know of any dentists that have stalkers, so maybe Pro-Dommes are doing something wrong? Not enough sunny glasses to wear?

I really had to take a second before responding to this, primarily because of how ...off base the statements are here.

Firstly, ProDommes sell an experience that is pre-negotiated to end when the timer goes off. Period. They are not selling drugs or anything like that. (Addictive personalities are the individual's responsibility, not the ProDommes). This should be discussed clearly prior to having a session. There is in no way a created expectation of anything more than that. I would actually state further, that individuals who have such an opinion as that I'm currently responding to (and done dealing with) shouldn't see a ProDomme, rather a therapist.

The reason why is because it's like going to a movie theater. You pay for an experience that is based in fantasy and you know and acknowledge that will never come true in any form of reality for you, as a client/customer. To not understand that is to not be able to distinguish between reality and fantasy and that's where the stalkers and crazies come in.

A thing to note is that these individuals are client, not "their submissives". Let's be clear. Not making that distinction sets us up for all kinds of crap that simply ain't good. MsKitty makes a point to tell individuals during negotiation, that they are not "Her's" unless it's a matter of role play DURING the session. The idea is to make sure there is clear expectation on Her part about where everyone stands (clearly, not everybody has that sink in like they should).

The attitude of "what should they expect?" is an attitude of entitlement to me. It's like sayin to someone in a personal relationship, "well we had sex that one time and I'm horny as hell now, so I don't know what you were expecting of me when I raped you". It just doesn't fly on my radar.

And btw chocolate has an intense chemical reaction in the brain very similar to sex, it is JUST like selling chocolate cupcakes. Now if you want to push this, please fill out a form certifying that you've been cleared from a shrink and drug counselor to not have an addictive personality. (I'm sure that won't cut down on business...where's my eye rolling smiley face?)

MsKitty's boi

< Message edited by BoiJen -- 9/4/2009 12:19:03 PM >

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RE: When clients think they're friends...really? - 9/4/2009 4:32:01 PM

PeonForHer

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Jen,

I must admit, curiousheart's view of the addictive nature of being a pro-domme's client struck a chord with me. It's worth remembering what littlesarbonn says, too:

It's not hard for a submissive to think he's much more than he really is in a professional dominant's life. It's happened to me as well. Granted, I didn't stalk the person or go nuts or anything like that, but I have been in situations where I honestly thought I was more than just a potential client with a woman . . .

- and while MsKitty's present trouble might be an idiot, sarbonn is no-one's idea of stupid or deranged. MsKitty isn't purveying 'reality', but it's a sight more real than any film at the cinema. All of which is to say: I think it'd be good to get advice from very seasoned pro-dommes, if you and she possibly can. I'm sure it'll be a rare occurrence, if it happens again at all, but it'd be good to get sage counsel.

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RE: When clients think they're friends...really? - 9/4/2009 5:08:49 PM

CdnExplorer

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BDSM can have very strong emotional reactions, even more-so when D/s roles get involved. I've completely ruled out going to a pro-domme precisely because I know that what I'm looking for is an emotional thing, and that's something a pro doesn't offer. I think that's one part of the clingy client thing. I believe the other part is a combination of Dommes who do pro work and have people from that "world" (in particular submissives) who bleed over into the personal world with how unnoticed most sub men seem to go in the lifestyle world. I've been going to munches and events now for over two years and recently I've had to stop, because I couldn't take the feeling of being invisible anymore. I'm not sure if it's like this everywhere but from what I've read online and heard from Domme friends who know quite a few, this is a rather widespread feeling that guys like us get.

So mix a scenario where clients sometimes become personal subs, and those subs are starving for attention. Some are going to misread the staged interactions (crafted by someone who validates their identity) as meaning more than they are. The only thing I could suggest is making it painfully clear up front that they'll never be anything more than a customer. Even then I imagine there would still be some who only hear what they want to hear.

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RE: When clients think they're friends...really? - 9/4/2009 8:40:14 PM

LadyHibiscus

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MsK IS a very seasoned pro domme, Peon! Nut jobs are all part of the deal, really... and while it might be possible for a client to THINK that he is more than that, it's really not true. Sarbonn mentioned that episode from his past, but he was much closer to that lady in terms of contact, and the work he did for her.

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RE: When clients think they're friends...really? - 9/4/2009 8:58:43 PM

BoiJen

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Yup, Ma'am got started doing the Pro stuff about the same time She began to understand Leather. That was almost 12 years ago now (reminds me I need to update Her profile). She's grown as a professional and as a person to have more of a guard up around things and people and this incident, and my subsequent posting, was more about me needing to find suggestions and validation than anything She needed or wanted to do. Thanks LH for putting that up there. How have you dealt with the crazies in MI (as a Pro...we have talked about the "non pro crazies).

boi

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RE: When clients think they're friends...really? - 9/4/2009 9:05:36 PM

LadyHibiscus

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LOL NON pro crazies? Imagine!

I have a really good wack job detector... foolproof? No. Really, I think it helped when we had that shared list of who to avoid. It wasn't just for those morons who made appointments and never showed! Sometimes the true stalkerism doesn't show up until they are more comfortable with you. That's why I had my policy of NO being social other than having a coffee during that first screening before we ever went to the play space. I let that lapse ONE time and I think that I was only saved from a genuine stalker by his living on the other side of the state. He was even checking out what I was buying on ebay! Freakkkkkk

I prolly passed up on business because I got that bad vibe over the phone, but better safe than skeeeered!

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RE: When clients think they're friends...really? - 9/4/2009 10:15:14 PM

StellaSupreme

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As a Pro, it's our job to interface with clients, and it basically comes down to customer service. We provide it to those who we think will return, and sometimes it gets out of hand. When that happens (and it does, because hey, that's the sex industry) it's my problem... not my mom's, not my girlfriend's, it's MY issue and I am prepared to deal with it. Making it your problem, however justified you feel, puts you out of line as well as whatever creep is stalking your lady.

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RE: When clients think they're friends...really? - 9/5/2009 2:56:27 AM

blackpearl81

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In response to the OP:

As a forum moderator on a social networking site, I've found that the less you say, the better. (Please understand, I only use this analogy because it seems like thats what you do for your Missus)

People like the person you describe will never understand, no matter how hard you try to explain, clarify, etc. It's better to just let sleeping dogs lie. If possible, is there a way to ban this person from posting on blogspot? I have no idea what FL is - I'm guessing FetLife? Anyway, like I said - people are going to believe what they want to believe. Sometimes trying to defend yourself/your actions leads to nothing but frustration.

Better to not worry about it, and enjoy the time you spend with your Missus.

Hope this helps.

~BP~

< Message edited by blackpearl81 -- 9/5/2009 2:58:49 AM >

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RE: When clients think they're friends...really? - 9/5/2009 3:19:41 AM

PeonForHer

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and while it might be possible for a client to THINK that he is more than that, it's really not true.

I agree. I wasn't taking any moral position on pro-dommes and their business, still less Jen's and MsK's. I just wanted to amplify those voices that have revealed just how easy it might be to cross the line. Notions of what's true and right, of course, have somewhat gone out of the window for someone who's become so obsessed that he's started stalking behaviour. What to do about that if you happen to be a pro-domme is the big question here. I'm just doing that 'typical guy' thing of 'trying to fix a problem' (even though it's a long way beyond my experience).

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RE: When clients think they're friends...really? - 9/5/2009 9:06:55 AM

curiousheart

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In my exploring whether Pro-Domme service was for me, I asked a couple to try explain the dynamic for me and how it would differ to Lifestyle apart from the obvious practical differences.

EG, is this fantasy or reality, are you roleplaying a Domme or involving your real Domme self, if I get what I want/pay for does this make this a faux-Domme interaction, if you ask me what I want you to wear, I'm bottom topping as the client aren't I? Is it possible to recreate a genuine D/s dynamic or would it be an illusion?

And I believe I got replies that I believed, attempted to re-enforce fantasy as reality to get my business instead of stating, yes this is a fantasy acted out and any D/s dynamic is going to be tainted by the fact this is a service for your needs and we like to keep our real emotions and desires for personal time as to establish professional boundaries.

Either way, I couldn't get a straight answer, and so had too many doubts in my mind to follow through, hence I'm back on CM trying to get back into lifestyle, so I'm happy!

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